asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

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asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Mon May 27, 2013 10:58 pm

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661519
1550 (Asian) =1410(white) =1230 (Hispanic) = 1100 (black)
this is the equation admissions officers use at elite us university.
The book review link is provided above.
background story:
es&Bradford co authored a book "no longer seperate but not yet equal......." about elite college admissions. They studied admissions at a top 50 representative university. That study gave us the
formula written above.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by Kris on Tue May 28, 2013 12:35 am

truthbetold wrote:http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661519
1550 (Asian) =1410(white) =1230 (Hispanic) = 1100 (black)
this is the equation admissions officers use at elite us university.
The book review link is provided above.
background story:
es&Bradford co authored a book "no longer seperate but not yet equal......." about elite college admissions. They studied admissions at a top 50 representative university. That study gave us the
formula written above.
"This mammoth initiative would have interdisciplinary teams of researchers monitor a large, national sample of children from birth to age 18, use the data to identify sources of racial gaps in achievement, and develop a series of compensating measures to be taken by parents, schools, and neighborhoods. Certainly this book provides ample ammunition for such an ambitious project. The authors are to be commended for the clarity, lucidity, and comprehensiveness in which they have pursued their agenda. Maybe this book will soon spawn their planned project...

>>> I am surprised there are still takers for this nonsense..

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Tue May 28, 2013 6:11 am

truthbetold wrote:http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661519
1550 (Asian) =1410(white) =1230 (Hispanic) = 1100 (black)
this is the equation admissions officers use at elite us university.
The book review link is provided above.
background story:
es&Bradford co authored a book "no longer seperate but not yet equal......." about elite college admissions. They studied admissions at a top 50 representative university. That study gave us the
formula written above.
Authors were es....&radford (autocorrect changes it to Bradford).

I was aware that some reverse discrimination exists at elite schools but the scale of compensation for white is too steep. 140 in the top range of the sat's is probably impossible to climb for most Asian kids.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by Petrichor on Tue May 28, 2013 10:30 am

truthbetold wrote:but the scale of compensation for white is too steep. 140 in the top range of the sat's is probably impossible to climb for most Asian kids.

What does this mean? I need it in saaf-saaf simple english please.

what is scale of compensation?
i thought sat was for 2400. what is 140 in the top range?
the formula mentioned: how is it used? example, please.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Tue May 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:
truthbetold wrote:but the scale of compensation for white is too steep. 140 in the top range of the sat's is probably impossible to climb for most Asian kids.

What does this mean? I need it in saaf-saaf simple english please.

what is scale of compensation?
i thought sat was for 2400. what is 140 in the top range?
the formula mentioned: how is it used? example, please.

let me know when you figure it out. meanwhile, i have come to the conclusion that when it comes to the ivy leagues, the only place in their universe that is closest to a pure meritocracy is when they recruit graduate students in their science, engineering, econ, and other research heavy grad programs. they realize they can't run such graduate programs by staffing them with the george bushes of the world.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Tue May 28, 2013 10:12 pm

Mb,
the authors of above mentioned book got data from one of the top 20 school with a clause not to reveal the source of data.
Authors reviewed admissions for several years ( before 2006). Sat at that time scored for 1600.
According to authors if white student score is taken as standard, admissions officers compensated the sat scores of under represented minorities by adding points. That resulted in a white student with a 1410 sat score being given same consideration as a black student with 1100 sat score. That is a compensation of 310 points for black student.
For Asians there was a penalty. If an Asian gets 1550, his chances of getting admission is only as good as the white kid with 1410 sat score. In this reverse discrimination the white kid was compensated by 140 points.
Authors also checked for Gpa and extracurriculars when comparing the different groups.


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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Tue May 28, 2013 10:52 pm

we have decided early on that our strategy will be to not mark the race box at all. i am sure they will figure it out, but we want to make it morally difficult for them. in other words if they discriminate against us it will have to be a deliberate act on their part.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by Jeremiah Mburuburu on Wed May 29, 2013 12:26 am

truthbetold wrote:http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661519
1550 (Asian) =1410(white) =1230 (Hispanic) = 1100 (black)
this is the equation admissions officers use at elite us university.
The book review link is provided above.
background story:
es&Bradford co authored a book "no longer seperate but not yet equal......." about elite college admissions. They studied admissions at a top 50 representative university. That study gave us the
formula written above.
let me help you feel better; it's quite lkely that the book you refer to does not include indians in the "asian" category, but only east asians, and considering indians' average i.q., the equivalent score for them could be 1300. that's attainable, isn't it? there would then be nothing to complain about, would there?

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Wed May 29, 2013 6:28 am

Slimy flimy,
Indians were included in the Asian group.
why are you acting so stupid? Are you angry that you spilled the beans on your Dick size and lost your partner to a Pakistani Muslim?
Your anger led you to exhibit the smallness of your brain.
What next?

[quote]

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Wed May 29, 2013 6:58 am

classification by race and promoting diversity by race is inherently problematic. it is well known that the percentage of jews at elite american universities is very high but nobody is too concerned about that because conveniently they have chosen racial categories for applicants to check off and judaism is not a racial category. yet jews have the same purported advantages as privileged asian kids if not in even greater measure.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by Jeremiah Mburuburu on Wed May 29, 2013 8:51 am

truthbetold wrote:Indians were included in the Asian group.
i'll believe you if you show me evidence that they were.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Wed May 29, 2013 9:07 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indians were included in the Asian group.
i'll believe you if you show me evidence that they were.

here is the common application form accepted by harvard and other ivies:

https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Docs/DownloadForms/2013/2013AppFY_download.pdf

look in the column that says demographics question (2) and you'll find:

Asian (including Indian subcontinent and Philippines)

now this is of course subject to interpretation. since our kids were born in the US and not indian citizens, one could argue that they are not asians. this is why we plan to leave it blank.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by Jeremiah Mburuburu on Wed May 29, 2013 9:16 am

truthbetold wrote:Slimy flimy,
Are you angry that you spilled the beans on your Dick size and lost your partner to a Pakistani Muslim?
Your anger led you to exhibit the smallness of your brain.
i can almost understand why you focus all your energy and attention on dick size and brain size. it must be painful to be told, on the basis of research, that hindus have the smallest dicks in world - they're even considerably smaller than saudi arabians' and chinese people's dicks! - and that their average i.q. is about 85. you should demand that the elite universities consider a 1300 s.a.t. score by a hindu to be equivalent to a 1410 by a caucasian.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by Kris on Wed May 29, 2013 10:42 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indians were included in the Asian group.
i'll believe you if you show me evidence that they were.

here is the common application form accepted by harvard and other ivies:

https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Docs/DownloadForms/2013/2013AppFY_download.pdf

look in the column that says demographics question (2) and you'll find:

Asian (including Indian subcontinent and Philippines)

now this is of course subject to interpretation. since our kids were born in the US and not indian citizens, one could argue that they are not asians. this is why we plan to leave it blank.
>>>>Given the number of Indian-origin kids who apply, they will figure it out based on the name. When my wife called to find out the status of my son's app at one of the popular schools, she found out there were several with the same first and last names. The guy at the admissions office laughed about this coincidence and actually said, 'ma'am, you are not going to believe this, but does he have a middle name?'

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Wed May 29, 2013 11:27 am

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indians were included in the Asian group.
i'll believe you if you show me evidence that they were.

here is the common application form accepted by harvard and other ivies:

https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/Docs/DownloadForms/2013/2013AppFY_download.pdf

look in the column that says demographics question (2) and you'll find:

Asian (including Indian subcontinent and Philippines)

now this is of course subject to interpretation. since our kids were born in the US and not indian citizens, one could argue that they are not asians. this is why we plan to leave it blank.

>>>>Given the number of Indian-origin kids who apply, they will figure it out based on the name. When my wife called to find out the status of my son's app at one of the popular schools, she found out there were several with the same first and last names. The guy at the admissions office laughed about this coincidence and actually said, 'ma'am, you are not going to believe this, but does he have a middle name?'

as i said, i fully expect them to figure it out, but i want finding out my child's race to be an active exercise for them. it is also a form of protest that i am unwilling to be part of their agenda. if someone is hitting you with a stick, no point telling them it will be most effective if they hit you on your knee.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by confuzzled dude on Wed May 29, 2013 10:25 pm

truthbetold wrote:Mb,
the authors of above mentioned book got data from one of the top 20 school with a clause not to reveal the source of data.
Authors reviewed admissions for several years ( before 2006). Sat at that time scored for 1600.
According to authors if white student score is taken as standard, admissions officers compensated the sat scores of under represented minorities by adding points. That resulted in a white student with a 1410 sat score being given same consideration as a black student with 1100 sat score. That is a compensation of 310 points for black student.
For Asians there was a penalty. If an Asian gets 1550, his chances of getting admission is only as good as the white kid with 1410 sat score. In this reverse discrimination the white kid was compensated by 140 points.
Authors also checked for Gpa and extracurriculars when comparing the different groups.


Leave Ivys alone, this has trickled down to elementary schools too, in fairfax county they want to cut down on the number Asian/Indian kids enrolled into Advanced academic program, as there has been a lot of criticism on how Asians/Indians are prepping their kids for cogAT & NNAT tests (btw, for those who are not familiar these tests are given to 1st & 2nd graders)

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 9:31 am

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/
This research article provides answers to the following questions on this thread:
1. Jews are over represented in elite colleges.
Jews admissions to hpy (Harvard, Princeton, and Yale) increased till early 1920s .
then something changed. Percentage dropped from >20 to 15% and stayed there till after world war. Hen world changed for Jews. By 1960 Jews were part of whites and leaders of those same elite institutions.
2. Asians increased from a very small number to 20 plus by 1993. Some thing changed. Number stabilized, nay came down to 16% from 1995 to 2011.
More later.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by garam_kuta on Thu May 30, 2013 9:39 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Mb,
the authors of above mentioned book got data from one of the top 20 school with a clause not to reveal the source of data.
Authors reviewed admissions for several years ( before 2006). Sat at that time scored for 1600.
According to authors if white student score is taken as standard, admissions officers compensated the sat scores of under represented minorities by adding points. That resulted in a white student with a 1410 sat score being given same consideration as a black student with 1100 sat score. That is a compensation of 310 points for black student.
For Asians there was a penalty. If an Asian gets 1550, his chances of getting admission is only as good as the white kid with 1410 sat score. In this reverse discrimination the white kid was compensated by 140 points.
Authors also checked for Gpa and extracurriculars when comparing the different groups.


Leave Ivys alone, this has trickled down to elementary schools too, in fairfax county they want to cut down on the number Asian/Indian kids enrolled into Advanced academic program, as there has been a lot of criticism on how Asians/Indians are prepping their kids for cogAT & NNAT tests (btw, for those who are not familiar these tests are given to 1st & 2nd graders)

what? these 'prepped' kids are treated like cheating athletes in sports ?

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by confuzzled dude on Thu May 30, 2013 12:35 pm

garam_kuta wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Mb,
the authors of above mentioned book got data from one of the top 20 school with a clause not to reveal the source of data.
Authors reviewed admissions for several years ( before 2006). Sat at that time scored for 1600.
According to authors if white student score is taken as standard, admissions officers compensated the sat scores of under represented minorities by adding points. That resulted in a white student with a 1410 sat score being given same consideration as a black student with 1100 sat score. That is a compensation of 310 points for black student.
For Asians there was a penalty. If an Asian gets 1550, his chances of getting admission is only as good as the white kid with 1410 sat score. In this reverse discrimination the white kid was compensated by 140 points.
Authors also checked for Gpa and extracurriculars when comparing the different groups.


Leave Ivys alone, this has trickled down to elementary schools too, in fairfax county they want to cut down on the number Asian/Indian kids enrolled into Advanced academic program, as there has been a lot of criticism on how Asians/Indians are prepping their kids for cogAT & NNAT tests (btw, for those who are not familiar these tests are given to 1st & 2nd graders)

what? these 'prepped' kids are treated like cheating athletes in sports ?

As sad as it may sound, yes pretty much; You hear comments like these kids are just hard workers not smart will be overwhelmed once enrolled into the program and will bring down the standard or will hold back Einsteins (non-prepped kids) , but again the craze for AAP(GT) program is no less than that of Ivy leagues or shall I dare say IITs. School board actually customized standard cogAT tests to counter this prepping issue.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 pm

Cd,
Never heard of these asp(gt), cog AT, nnsomething, what are these local stuff or national stuff?

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 2:43 pm

Continuing from my morning post:
3. The article also explains how the percentage of asian admissions increased, stagnates and with a change of state law, increased again. In the appendix the latest admission rate
increase coincides with the reduction of race undeclared rate.
4. Side issue: are Indian Americans included in Asian Americans in college admission analysis. Yes.
There are only six groups in Usa educational race data collection. W, b, h, Asian, am Indian, and undeclared or others. In most forms Asian following ( south Asia or Indian subcontinent) is stated for clarity. Unless some one forces the data to be seperate Asian includes Indian American.
More later.



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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 2:53 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/02/harvard-princeton-discrimination-complaint_n_1251045.html
This news item shows how us govt groups Indian Americans as Asian Americans.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 3:03 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/opinion/asians-too-smart-for-their-own-good.html
Written by a northwestern university Asian American Prof. It includes references to asian origin groups and peoples names. Taiwan, Korea and India. Kim, winch and wong.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 3:17 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indians were included in the Asian group.
i'll believe you if you show me evidence that they were.
Jm,
who cares whether you believe me or not. I do not have any respect for a guy who claims expertise in statistics but is a complete idiot in use of sampling data.
I can tolerate an incompetency in technical tool but you are a bigoted individual who misuses data.
only few tambrams consider you as some sort of their lost uncle. You can play your genius act with them.
you are just a pompous stupid English subeditor.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by confuzzled dude on Thu May 30, 2013 3:40 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd,
Never heard of these asp(gt), cog AT, nnsomething, what are these local stuff or national stuff?

cogAT (Coginitive Abilities) & NNAT (Nagileri) are used across the nation to measure students learning abilities (IQ). AAP (Advanced Academic Program) is specific to Fairfax county but I'm sure several other school boards across the county offer similar programs.

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by b_A on Thu May 30, 2013 4:01 pm

truthbetold wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Indians were included in the Asian group.
i'll believe you if you show me evidence that they were.
Jm,
who cares whether you believe me or not. I do not have any respect for a guy who claims expertise in statistics but is a complete idiot in use of sampling data.
I can tolerate an incompetency in technical tool but you are a bigoted individual who misuses data.
only few tambrams consider you as some sort of their lost uncle. You can play your genius act with them.
you are just a pompous stupid English subeditor.

+1

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Re: asians get admissions penalty.in ivy league.school

Post by truthbetold on Thu May 30, 2013 7:13 pm

Ba,
you can be sure jm will stay from this thread. Too many facts to crush the pompous liar.

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