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Rs 5 can’t buy a meal, Jama Masjid beggar says

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:59 am

NEW DELHI: On Wednesday, Congress psokesman Raj Babbar said one can have a full meal for Rs 12 in Mumbai. On Thursday, Congress Rajya Sabha MP Rasheed Masood went a step further, claiming, "You can eat well for Rs 5 in the Jama Masjid area of Delhi".

Since Masood had specifically mentioned Jama Masjid, TOI decided to do a reality check. We visited the area, and asked residents and owners of food outlets if his statement was correct.

"The MP still seems to be living in a bygone era. Maybe he should visit the area again," scoffed a local tea stall owner who has been living in the area for the past four decades. "In the late 1980s, one could have still expected to have a meal for Rs 5 when the roti used to cost less than a rupee and gravy dishes could be had for Rs 2," he said, requesting anonymity.

The minimum price of a roti now is Rs 3 even at the most basic of food outlets. A gravy dish costs a minimum of Rs 20.

The only affordable meal (if it can be termed as such) was a small portion of rice and modest sprinkling of daal (pulses), but that too costs about Rs 15.

A 'decent' meal — consisting of a non-vegetarian gravy and two rotis — at the cheapest eatery will cost not less than Rs 20-25. If you want to add a phirni (sweet dish), it will set you back another Rs 10. That doesn't really square with Masood's numbers.

Even a small pouch of water costs Rs 2. If you plan to sip tea at a stall, it will cost at least Rs 7. Don't have money for food and want to make do with juice? A glass of juice will cost no less than Rs 10.

The only hope for a person who has to live on Rs 5 per meal is the alms being distributed on account of the holy month of Ramzaan. As part of charity during this period, many people have been buying meals costing Rs 20-25 to be distributed free of cost to the poor.

But when we asked whether we could feed the poor for Rs 5, the restaurant attendant mocked us and said, "Since it's Ramzaan and people give out their annual zakaat (charity), one can also eat for free."

And here's something for Masood to chew on. We tried to hand over Rs 5 to a beggar standing outside the eatery. But she refused to accept it, saying it would not help her get any food. "I will not get anything for this. If you really want to help me, you have to give me at least Rs 20 so that I can buy something to eat," she said.

Times View

It might be unfair to demand from political leaders or governments that they eliminate poverty overnight. But surely demanding some sensitivity towards the plight of the poor is not too much to ask. To suggest that one can have a proper meal in Delhi for Rs 5 is really to make a mockery of poverty and the poor. It reflects either a complete lack of connect with reality or insensitivity or both.

If this is what our lawmakers and policy framers actually believe, we are in serious trouble. If, on the other hand, they are saying such things for rhetorical effect, they deserve to be condemned.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rs-5-cant-buy-a-meal-Jama-Masjid-beggar-says/articleshow/21353353.cms
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Post by southindian Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:27 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:NEW DELHI: On Wednesday, Congress psokesman Raj Babbar said one can have a full meal for Rs 12 in Mumbai. On Thursday, Congress Rajya Sabha MP Rasheed Masood went a step further, claiming, "You can eat well for Rs 5 in the Jama Masjid area of Delhi".

Since Masood had specifically mentioned Jama Masjid, TOI decided to do a reality check. We visited the area, and asked residents and owners of food outlets if his statement was correct.

"The MP still seems to be living in a bygone era. Maybe he should visit the area again," scoffed a local tea stall owner who has been living in the area for the past four decades. "In the late 1980s, one could have still expected to have a meal for Rs 5 when the roti used to cost less than a rupee and gravy dishes could be had for Rs 2," he said, requesting anonymity.

The minimum price of a roti now is Rs 3 even at the most basic of food outlets. A gravy dish costs a minimum of Rs 20.

The only affordable meal (if it can be termed as such) was a small portion of rice and modest sprinkling of daal (pulses), but that too costs about Rs 15.

A 'decent' meal — consisting of a non-vegetarian gravy and two rotis — at the cheapest eatery will cost not less than Rs 20-25. If you want to add a phirni (sweet dish), it will set you back another Rs 10. That doesn't really square with Masood's numbers.

Even a small pouch of water costs Rs 2. If you plan to sip tea at a stall, it will cost at least Rs 7. Don't have money for food and want to make do with juice? A glass of juice will cost no less than Rs 10.

The only hope for a person who has to live on Rs 5 per meal is the alms being distributed on account of the holy month of Ramzaan. As part of charity during this period, many people have been buying meals costing Rs 20-25 to be distributed free of cost to the poor.

But when we asked whether we could feed the poor for Rs 5, the restaurant attendant mocked us and said, "Since it's Ramzaan and people give out their annual zakaat (charity), one can also eat for free."

And here's something for Masood to chew on. We tried to hand over Rs 5 to a beggar standing outside the eatery. But she refused to accept it, saying it would not help her get any food. "I will not get anything for this. If you really want to help me, you have to give me at least Rs 20 so that I can buy something to eat," she said.

Times View

It might be unfair to demand from political leaders or governments that they eliminate poverty overnight. But surely demanding some sensitivity towards the plight of the poor is not too much to ask. To suggest that one can have a proper meal in Delhi for Rs 5 is really to make a mockery of poverty and the poor. It reflects either a complete lack of connect with reality or insensitivity or both.

If this is what our lawmakers and policy framers actually believe, we are in serious trouble. If, on the other hand, they are saying such things for rhetorical effect, they deserve to be condemned.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rs-5-cant-buy-a-meal-Jama-Masjid-beggar-says/articleshow/21353353.cms

Height of Hypocrisy

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Post by nevada Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:35 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:NEW DELHI: On Wednesday, Congress psokesman Raj Babbar said one can have a full meal for Rs 12 in Mumbai. On Thursday, Congress Rajya Sabha MP Rasheed Masood went a step further, claiming, "You can eat well for Rs 5 in the Jama Masjid area of Delhi".

Since Masood had specifically mentioned Jama Masjid, TOI decided to do a reality check. We visited the area, and asked residents and owners of food outlets if his statement was correct.

"The MP still seems to be living in a bygone era. Maybe he should visit the area again," scoffed a local tea stall owner who has been living in the area for the past four decades. "In the late 1980s, one could have still expected to have a meal for Rs 5 when the roti used to cost less than a rupee and gravy dishes could be had for Rs 2," he said, requesting anonymity.

The minimum price of a roti now is Rs 3 even at the most basic of food outlets. A gravy dish costs a minimum of Rs 20.

The only affordable meal (if it can be termed as such) was a small portion of rice and modest sprinkling of daal (pulses), but that too costs about Rs 15.

A 'decent' meal — consisting of a non-vegetarian gravy and two rotis — at the cheapest eatery will cost not less than Rs 20-25. If you want to add a phirni (sweet dish), it will set you back another Rs 10. That doesn't really square with Masood's numbers.

Even a small pouch of water costs Rs 2. If you plan to sip tea at a stall, it will cost at least Rs 7. Don't have money for food and want to make do with juice? A glass of juice will cost no less than Rs 10.

The only hope for a person who has to live on Rs 5 per meal is the alms being distributed on account of the holy month of Ramzaan. As part of charity during this period, many people have been buying meals costing Rs 20-25 to be distributed free of cost to the poor.

But when we asked whether we could feed the poor for Rs 5, the restaurant attendant mocked us and said, "Since it's Ramzaan and people give out their annual zakaat (charity), one can also eat for free."

And here's something for Masood to chew on. We tried to hand over Rs 5 to a beggar standing outside the eatery. But she refused to accept it, saying it would not help her get any food. "I will not get anything for this. If you really want to help me, you have to give me at least Rs 20 so that I can buy something to eat," she said.

Times View

It might be unfair to demand from political leaders or governments that they eliminate poverty overnight. But surely demanding some sensitivity towards the plight of the poor is not too much to ask. To suggest that one can have a proper meal in Delhi for Rs 5 is really to make a mockery of poverty and the poor. It reflects either a complete lack of connect with reality or insensitivity or both.

If this is what our lawmakers and policy framers actually believe, we are in serious trouble. If, on the other hand, they are saying such things for rhetorical effect, they deserve to be condemned.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rs-5-cant-buy-a-meal-Jama-Masjid-beggar-says/articleshow/21353353.cms

So, she doesn't have the patience to collect small change that eventually adds up to a meal? The real reason behind her frustration could be the rent or hafta she pays to the local goon to be able to sit on the platform to beg. Probably half her day or more is spent in earning just enough to break even. And these goons must be paying their dues to the local cops and politicians as protection money. What a great trickle up economy!

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Post by The Absolute Zero Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:37 pm

My observation in India (May/June)

2 Idli - 15
Dosa - 20
Masala Dosa - 24
Puri - 25

Lunch (Unlimited) - 60 (not roadside)
Road side (limited) - order by items each like 15 - 30

Milk - 30-50/liter
Water Bottle - 15-20 (Be careful, most bottles are just washed and refilled. NOT recycled). Washing is done by hand :-)
Fanta/Coke/Thumbs up Bottle - 30 to 50
Coffee - 10 roadside, 15 hotel and 170 in airport (yes you read it right 1-7-0)

So you get the picture.  Beggars get min 10 per donation or 5 at the least. If you give one rupee you are an idiot.  Also what comes for one rupee... a hard candy. When there is no change they "wave you off." or give you a candy.

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Post by The Absolute Zero Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:38 pm

BTW I am unable to see answers or forum due to blockage. When I see and can post, will update whatever I can. Till then hi, bye hello etc to all - including to those who needlessly tag along even when I shrug them off.

Bittu boy, Tracy, Indophile et al how are you all doing.. :-)

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Post by indophile Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:48 pm

You can't get even a half chapati from a roadside stall in Delhi.

 http://www.firstpost.com/india/not-even-a-full-chapati-the-rs-5-menu-in-delhis-eateries-989507.html

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:20 pm

Rs 5 can’t buy a meal, Jama Masjid beggar says Click?format=go&key=9aafeaa0dc973144cc8995b68291f36e&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fsuch.forumotion.com%2Ft14804-rs-5-cant-buy-a-meal-jama-masjid-beggar-says%23113898&v=1&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&type=U&libId=56934237-6fb3-4c3c-8099-894e0e3e6bd8&out=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2F533605_372354106220609_1210878504_n.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fsuch.forumotion.com%2F&title=Rs%205%20can%E2%80%99t%20buy%20a%20meal%2C%20Jama%20Masjid%20beggar%20says&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2F533605_372354106220609_1210878504_n

 Courtesy: southindian  (Height of Hypocrisy:
https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533605_372354106220609_1210878504_n.jpg)
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Post by nevada Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:28 pm

The Absolute Zero wrote:BTW I am unable to see answers or forum due to blockage. When I see and can post, will update whatever I can. Till then hi, bye hello etc to all - including to those who needlessly tag along even when I shrug them off.

Bittu boy, Tracy, Indophile et al how are you all doing.. :-)

How did you survive sticker shock in India? Clothing is crazy expensive there. A cousin of mine told me recently that a shirt costs 3500 Rs and a pant costs 5000 Rs. Thanks God we live in the USA, the land of the deals!

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:23 am

nevada wrote:
The Absolute Zero wrote:BTW I am unable to see answers or forum due to blockage. When I see and can post, will update whatever I can. Till then hi, bye hello etc to all - including to those who needlessly tag along even when I shrug them off.

Bittu boy, Tracy, Indophile et al how are you all doing.. :-)

How did you survive sticker shock in India? Clothing is crazy expensive there. A cousin of mine told me recently that a shirt costs 3500 Rs and a pant costs 5000 Rs. Thanks God we live in the USA, the land of the deals!

Just shows how far removed are these politicians from reality, yet they have the important task of making decisions for public (including millions of people living in extreme poverty).
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Post by truthbetold Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:11 am

Are these comments related to poverty rate data released by montek recently?
Based on your recent understanding of Indian life, what is a minimum living cost in a region of your choice? I am including an explanation of what I think is a minimum life standard below.
a permanent living structure ( rented but indicate ownership costs). Min of one bedroom, kitchen and a family room, regular electricity
a location with roads and some transportation
Two or three meals a day
min necessities such as soaps, tooth paste and other consumables
School for children and a rare opportunity for. Entertainment
Once in few years chance to go on pilgrimmage
A family of four or five.


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Post by truthbetold Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:31 am

Following up on my post above.,
(Please note I am asking for family income as opposed to per capita)
Is 10k per month(or 330 per day) a good number?
That 10k was rate for car drivers few years ago including tips.
is it 20k(660 per day)?
That was the salary of a lowest govt employee.

Rural areas may allow a slightly lower numbers and urban areas like mumbai may push up the numbers. But large chunk of opportunities are in those busy urban centers.
what is your estimation of monthly salary minimum required to live in India today?

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:25 am

truthbetold wrote:Following up on my post above.,
(Please note I am asking for family income as opposed to per capita)
Is 10k per month(or 330 per day) a good number?
That 10k was rate for car drivers few years ago including tips.
is it 20k(660 per day)?
That was the salary of a lowest govt employee.

Rural areas may allow a slightly lower numbers and urban areas like mumbai may push up the numbers. But large chunk of opportunities are in those busy urban centers.
what is your estimation of monthly salary minimum required to live in India today?
 
It's really Govt. and its economists' responsibility to define the poverty line / limit properly.
 
It seems until quite recently, India (especially the Govt.) had no idea or concept about the poverty line or limit for its citizens.
 
Four or five years ago (as indicated below), while working on the blog / blogs on India's hypocrisy in granting the caste based quotas in education and jobs while ignoring the economic poverty of people / recipients, I needed a number on the poverty line / limit in India,  but there was no such info. available. So, finally, I used the World bank's figure of 1 dollar / day (roughly Rs. 50 / day) for poverty figure in the Third World countries as  also applicable for India's poor (poverty limit: Rs. 50 / day, or Rs. 1500 / month) in my blogs.
 
It seems people and politicians in India have started talking now about poor and poverty in terms of poverty line / limit even though the poverty limit figure used by them might be quite questionable.
 
Excerpts from my blog from four and a half yeas ago:
 
APPENDIX
How creamy is the Creamy Layer
 
Creamy layer is the upper limit on income for an OBC family to retain its eligibility in reservations and quotas in education and jobs. Currently, the creamy layer for OBC is set at Rs. 4.5 lakhs per annum which translates to Rs. 37500 per month.
 
On the other hand, for a SC/ST family there does not seem to be any such limit (creamy layer) on the family income. In other words, no matter how high the income of a SC/ST family (even if more than Rs. 4.5 lakhs per annum -- the current creamy layer for OBC) it will continue to receive quota benefits in jobs etc.
 
Note also that the poverty line or limit for a family in India currently is about Rs. 1500 per month (Rs. 18000 per annum). Many non-quota (“upper” caste) families currently earn and live below that income (poverty line) and are still not considered eligible for Govt. help in education and jobs because they are not a part of OBC or SC/ST. Thus the relatively high creamy layer of Rs. 4.5 lakhs per annum (Rs. 37500 per month) makes many high income earning OBC families eligible for quotas in education and jobs; and it appears to be quite creamy, unjustifiable and ridiculously high, especially considering that the national poverty limit is only Rs. 18000 per annum (Rs. 1500 per month) and many “upper” caste people are earning and living below it without being eligible for Govt. help (2).
(Ref.: http://creative.sulekha.com/politicization-of-caste-system_456766_blog)
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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:40 am

truthbetold wrote:Are these comments related to poverty rate data released by montek recently?
Based on your recent understanding of Indian life,  what is a minimum living cost in a region of your choice? I am including an explanation of what I think is a minimum life standard below.
a permanent living structure ( rented but indicate ownership costs). Min of one bedroom,  kitchen and a family room, regular electricity
a location with roads and some transportation
Two or three meals a day
min necessities such as soaps, tooth paste and other consumables
School for children and a rare opportunity for. Entertainment
Once in few years chance to go on pilgrimmage
A family of four or five.

i am not the most competent person to answer your question for i am a bit privileged. also, i do not know if your question is general or for folks who wish to relocate to india. however, let me answer it in the following way:

if you want to live comfortably in india with 2 kids (family of 4) then put rs 10k (as an average) in each of the following heads.

rent,
electricity (at least 1 room with AC running 10 hours, 2 geysers, washing machine etc.),
car (installment and fuel),
house help + driver,
kids' education fees (including tuition),
groceries,
medical and insurance,
entertainment,

so that's 8 heads or 80k.

rs 1 lac min. boss.

most (salaried) upper class folks have supplemental incomes or incomes from more than one (salaried or in profession) family member.

edit. *removed edit*

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:20 am

nevada wrote:
The Absolute Zero wrote:BTW I am unable to see answers or forum due to blockage. When I see and can post, will update whatever I can. Till then hi, bye hello etc to all - including to those who needlessly tag along even when I shrug them off.

Bittu boy, Tracy, Indophile et al how are you all doing.. :-)

How did you survive sticker shock in India? Clothing is crazy expensive there. A cousin of mine told me recently that a shirt costs 3500 Rs and a pant costs 5000 Rs. Thanks God we live in the USA, the land of the deals!

One of my cousins is manager of a high-end chain store. When I went to meet him, the cheapest shirt was Rs 7500 (that was in 2010) and most were in the 10 to 12,000 range and I saw a few shoppers who were ordinary joes. I could not put 2 +2 together and was all confused. he said they would buy at his store to show off their status although the price is above their capacity - strictly speaking. BTW, the pants were Rs 25,000 to 35,000. I asked him jokingly what was the price of Langots so that I could buy one in that high-end store.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:03 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
nevada wrote:
The Absolute Zero wrote:BTW I am unable to see answers or forum due to blockage. When I see and can post, will update whatever I can. Till then hi, bye hello etc to all - including to those who needlessly tag along even when I shrug them off.

Bittu boy, Tracy, Indophile et al how are you all doing.. :-)

How did you survive sticker shock in India? Clothing is crazy expensive there. A cousin of mine told me recently that a shirt costs 3500 Rs and a pant costs 5000 Rs. Thanks God we live in the USA, the land of the deals!

One of my cousins is manager of a high-end chain store. When I went to meet him, the cheapest shirt was Rs 7500 (that was in 2010) and most were in the 10 to 12,000 range and I saw a few shoppers who were ordinary joes.  I could not put 2 +2 together and was all confused. he said they would buy at his store to show off their status although the price is above their capacity - strictly speaking. BTW, the pants were Rs 25,000 to 35,000.  I asked him jokingly what was the price of Langots so that I could buy one in that high-end store.

are you ashamed of saying kOvaNam or kaupInam?
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Post by truthbetold Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:46 am

Hk,
I am looking for a minimum income per month that provides a decent life with human dignity with hope for future. That is a life with protection from nature, social respect and an opportunity for children to escape poverty.

The minimum amount varies significantly from rural to urban areas. That is the reason to ask for location.

Having clarified what I was asking, I should not forget to thank you for the information provided. My perception was 40 to 50 k per month would be a decent middle class income. Looks like I am off by 50%.

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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:50 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote: BTW, the pants were Rs 25,000 to 35,000.  I asked him jokingly what was the price of Langots so that I could buy one in that high-end store.

are you ashamed of saying kOvaNam or kaupInam?

 I think the key is 'jokingly'. In the context, the crude, colloqual word fits in better than a literary sanskrit word. (Yes, even in telugu, the crude word is Langoti or gochi and the classy word is Kaupinam.)

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Post by truthbetold Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:16 am

Almost no one uses kaupinam in regular usage in agraharam purists in ap. Gochi or langoti are common like road .
Language extremists prowl around looking for such issues.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:21 am

langot is not a tamil word. even the colloquial word is kOmaNam or kOvaNam or kachchi. nothing formal about any of these words.
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Post by truthbetold Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:32 am

Road is not from Tamil or from any adjacent languages of Tamil. Lungi, langot, pen and hospital are coopted into Indian languages. Even if there is well known word in local languages people tend to use more popular word. That does not indicate disrespect to local language.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:35 am

truthbetold wrote:Road is not from Tamil or from any adjacent languages of Tamil. Lungi, langot, pen and hospital are coopted into Indian languages. Even if there is well known word in local languages people tend to use more popular word. That does not indicate disrespect to local language.

but the point is langot is NOT used in tamil. you keep saying it's commonly used in indian languages. that maybe so, but i am telling you it's not used in tamil even as a colloquialism. i am not making this up, i am just telling you that this is the way it is.
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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:51 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Road is not from Tamil or from any adjacent languages of Tamil. Lungi, langot, pen and hospital are coopted into Indian languages. Even if there is well known word in local languages people tend to use more popular word. That does not indicate disrespect to local language.

but the point is langot is NOT used in tamil. you keep saying it's commonly used in indian languages. that maybe so, but i am telling you it's not used in tamil even as a colloquialism. i am not making this up, i am just telling you that this is the way it is.

 If he had used the word kovanam/komanam, no one here would've got what he was saying, except tamils. If he had used kocchi/gochi, only telugus would've got it (or maybe other south indians because they might be using gochi in their languages too). Kaupenam is too literary, though most everyone would've got it. Langot is a common word used through the length and breath of india and everyone would get it. Practicality, max!

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Post by truthbetold Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:24 am

Max,
any contribution to my question above on a decent minimum income for a family?

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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:41 am

truthbetold wrote:Max,
any contribution to my question above on a decent minimum income for a family?
lol.

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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:44 am

The Absolute Zero wrote:BTW I am unable to see answers or forum due to blockage. When I see and can post, will update whatever I can. Till then hi, bye hello etc to all - including to those who needlessly tag along even when I shrug them off.

Bittu boy, Tracy, Indophile et al how are you all doing.. :-)

hi taz, tracy here... how u been?

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Post by Kris Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:59 pm

truthbetold wrote:Almost no one uses kaupinam in regular usage in agraharam purists in ap. Gochi or langoti are common like road .
Language extremists prowl around looking for such issues.

>>>I haven't heard 'kaupinam', but langot-yes.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:08 pm

the q is not whether you've heard of langot but whether it's a tamil word. i am sure you've heard of komaNam too.
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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:42 pm

truthbetold wrote:Max,
any contribution to my question above on a decent minimum income for a family?

define Decent... Car, A/C, servant, etc..etc...are not middle class necessities. These are UPPEr middle class.

So you need to redefine your constraints.

Also in first tier, second tier or 3rd tier cities?


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Post by truthbetold Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:53 pm

Uppili ,
i posted above what my understanding of minimum family income is. take a look at that and i will be happy to answers any additional questions.

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 pm

truthbetold wrote:Are these comments related to poverty rate data released by montek recently?
Based on your recent understanding of Indian life,  what is a minimum living cost in a region of your choice? I am including an explanation of what I think is a minimum life standard below.
a permanent living structure ( rented but indicate ownership costs). Min of one bedroom,  kitchen and a family room, regular electricity
a location with roads and some transportation
Two or three meals a day
min necessities such as soaps, tooth paste and other consumables
School for children and a rare opportunity for. Entertainment
Once in few years chance to go on pilgrimmage
A family of four or five.


Minimum wage in every state in India (of course....these may not be strictly followed)

Keep the above as a reference, I know of 2 "poor" families that work to make ends meet - no cars, A/C, servants - just roof, some dress and couple of meals a day, with school going child and another college going kid. One in a city and another in a rural town.

1 BR/living-TV room/kitchen/small verandah - electricity - one or two 2-wheelers, one PC or Laptop/net connection; 2 cell phones - perhaps a room A/C in 1 room:

rent 3000/10000; elect (1000); food Rs 10,000 to 15,000 (milk alone at 1 lit/day will come to Rs 2000; Dal/veggies are costly at around 8 to 10,000; petrol some Rs 80/lit; gas cylinder some rs 500 / mo); Misc - bike repairs, some snacks here n there; bus charges- rather auto charges - dress can amount to rs 2,000 per month (very basic needs):

You are talking Rs 20,000 per month in rural and Rs 30,000 in city (comfortable but VERY BASIC NEED-based); The families that I know are living with 1/2 the income needed to meet this.

With some flexibility and change for random expenses (high school/college going kids have peer pressure) make it Rs 30,000/Rs 50,000 month. Still no car (add 10,000), servant (rs 3,000), movie, etc (add 5,000).

Rs 1 Lakh will enable you to live a typical and yet careful middle class living; Note that one needs to save for future expenses, medical expenses (rs 5000 each visit; hospitalization will be 25,000 to 50K for simple problems).

My guesstimates.

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Post by truthbetold Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:58 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India
The above link shows % of Indians at different rates of daily earnings. These are depressing numbers.
Assuming uppili numbers (30k per month) is a decent min monthly family earnings., I converted that back to individual daily wages in $. That came to $4.11.
From the link above that means only about. 10% or less people have that opportunity. That is about 100 million people.
To be fair if we use world bank purchasing power parity (ppp) numbers that number will go to 200 to 300 million people.
There is so much more growth that is required for India to claim that it provides a reasonable life for its people.

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Post by The Absolute Zero Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:21 am

Good to read these responses.  But most of you are over estimating the expenses in India.  I have some people in India living in Hyd for Rs15K a month all inclusive in a 1 bed 1 bath apt.  No car is required.

Also shirts selling at 2500 and up is too much. I did not get that kind of shock. It appears you get that shock in Raymonds or such shops. But you can walk into any shop in India and bargain. Yes, I did that many times. A decent T-Shirt is available for 150 and you can even bargain that for 130 or so. Shops such as Raymonds do not allow this bargaining.

IMHO, if you have a house, you can easily live like a rich guy with rs 40K. No house mortgage or rent, mind you.  Otherwise 50K is decent in a small place. If you are going back to a city and expect AC etc it would be more $$. Again if you have a house and plan to retire on Social security income of $1200 a month (translates to Rs.60K.. again please understand that you should have a house free of rent or mortgage), this amount is OK to live. You can save even about 20K a month if you are in good health and cook yourself. You can have a servant maid to clean dishes etc.

Of course everything is relative. If I want to go back, personally, I won't mind not having AC but simple fan is fine for me.  OTOH, there are easy perks in India - one being great family and friends and relatives contact, culture, food still cheap to OK and travel by train.  All AC train costs about Rs 500 for overnight travel. This is good compared to flights which a normal Indian does not need.

BTW Vidya Bagci what happend to your Tracey handle? I am good and came back from desh trip recently. I did not have a sticker shock but had a "relatives" shock and could not recognise many people who now have grey hair - more than I could imagine and aged a LOT.

When I get the connection again, I will come back, till then.. happy deshi discussion.  BTW I miss desh and the food, family and you name it. I need to go more frequently (AKA, I need to buy power ball tickets more frequently. Damn!)

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Post by Guest Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:33 am

The Absolute Zero wrote:Good to read these responses.  But most of you are over estimating the expenses in India.  I have some people in India living in Hyd for Rs15K a month all inclusive in a 1 bed 1 bath apt.  No car is required.

Also shirts selling at 2500 and up is too much. I did not get that kind of shock. It appears you get that shock in Raymonds or such shops. But you can walk into any shop in India and bargain. Yes, I did that many times. A decent T-Shirt is available for 150 and you can even bargain that for 130 or so. Shops such as Raymonds do not allow this bargaining.

IMHO, if you have a house, you can easily live like a rich guy with rs 40K. No house mortgage or rent, mind you.  Otherwise 50K is decent in a small place. If you are going back to a city and expect AC etc it would be more $$. Again if you have a house and plan to retire on Social security income of $1200 a month (translates to Rs.60K.. again please understand that you should have a house free of rent or mortgage), this amount is OK to live. You can save even about 20K a month if you are in good health and cook yourself. You can have a servant maid to clean dishes etc.

Of course everything is relative. If I want to go back, personally, I won't mind not having AC but simple fan is fine for me.  OTOH, there are easy perks in India - one being great family and friends and relatives contact, culture, food still cheap to OK and travel by train.  All AC train costs about Rs 500 for overnight travel. This is good compared to flights which a normal Indian does not need.

BTW Vidya Bagci what happend to your Tracey handle? I am good and came back from desh trip recently. I did not have a sticker shock but had a "relatives" shock and could not recognise many people who now have grey hair - more than I could imagine and aged a LOT.

When I get the connection again, I will come back, till then.. happy deshi discussion.  BTW I miss desh and the food, family and you name it. I need to go more frequently (AKA, I need to buy power ball tickets more frequently. Damn!)
very good post. good reality check for me.

i absolutely agree with your this statement: Again if you have a house and plan to retire on Social security income of $1200 a month (translates to Rs.60K.. again please understand that you should have a house free of rent or mortgage), this amount is OK to live. You can save even about 20K a month if you are in good health and cook yourself. You can have a servant maid to clean dishes etc.

i would like to add rs 10k to it for 1 AC and 2 geysers. summers in india are intolerable for those used to ACs or cool climes.

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Post by The Absolute Zero Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:13 am

>> very good post. good reality check for me.
HK
Please take this with a pinch of salt.  If *I decide to back to desh*, I won't mind going back with basic necessities. And I also won't probably go back to a city but rather to a smaller place in the town/village set up. Or if I can buy a house in Hyd city outskirts (Shamir pet in the north for example), I will go there with less traffic.  The basic problems of bad roads, traffic pollution and good water are all over India. Temperatures are hot during summers but I can manage with a fan I think.

I also won't depend on a car or geyser. It is easier to buy a immersible or such water heater that can be used for cheap once/twice a day. And also the cost of living is NOT that bad. It is high in some places but when you earn $1200 Soc. Sec money (BTW SSA is known to send money accurately on 1st of every month without fail) it would be OK to live on Rs 60K.  The servant maid that comes to my people's house for a few hours on every monring charges like 400 or so - wash dishes and clothes and leave for the day by 9 or 10 AM. My folks have a TV with cable for Rs 200/mo. It has about 200 channels but they hardly watch more than 2 or 3.

The biggest problem is medical care. There is no such thing as ambulance service or 911 in India, particularly in Hyd or elsewhere. There may be some service like 108 etc but that is nothing. In a busy street or highway nobody cares if an ambulance is flashing its lights in Hyd. It is just one of the cars that goes along in the traffic.  OTOH, medicines can be bargained in medical shop, do you know that? If you tell the owner that you have only some amount of money, he will cut prices for you.

I am not a guy who insists that he only wears Raymond's or Bombay Dyeing Lungi that cost more. If I go back I will probably go to a village or town setting that is close to a good Train Station. Cell phone is so common these days that even the roadside cobbler and vendor of mangoes has one. So communication is not a problem like old days. AC for one room can be done with Rs 30K I think. Most folks I saw have their bedroom AC'ed and left the doors closed. It works OK. My folks have the same too.

Internet is cheap too. All Text+Voice+Data on a cell phone is like Rs 900 a month which translates to $20. Can you get that in USA? LOL.  So if you have a house in Hyd and want to live simple life, you can actually live very happily with SS income. And to own a car in Hyd city is actually a burden with gas prices and traffic. The best is to walk down the road and signal for an auto, pay for him and sit relaxed and watch traffic. But if I were you that retires, I hardly plan to go out of the house or travel so often. I would rather work in my backyard and have some small garden.

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Post by confuzzled dude Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:34 am

I didn't know that TBT is retiring soon Wink

What about 5 Rupees full meals TAZ. You think you can get for Rs. 5 in Shameerpet or in one of those village hotels.

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Post by pravalika nanda Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:30 pm

The Absolute Zero wrote:>> very good post. good reality check for me.
HK
Please take this with a pinch of salt.  If *I decide to back to desh*, I won't mind going back with basic necessities. And I also won't probably go back to a city but rather to a smaller place in the town/village set up. Or if I can buy a house in Hyd city outskirts (Shamir pet in the north for example), I will go there with less traffic.  The basic problems of bad roads, traffic pollution and good water are all over India. Temperatures are hot during summers but I can manage with a fan I think.

I also won't depend on a car or geyser. It is easier to buy a immersible or such water heater that can be used for cheap once/twice a day. And also the cost of living is NOT that bad. It is high in some places but when you earn $1200 Soc. Sec money (BTW SSA is known to send money accurately on 1st of every month without fail) it would be OK to live on Rs 60K.  The servant maid that comes to my people's house for a few hours on every monring charges like 400 or so - wash dishes and clothes and leave for the day by 9 or 10 AM. My folks have a TV with cable for Rs 200/mo. It has about 200 channels but they hardly watch more than 2 or 3.

The biggest problem is medical care. There is no such thing as ambulance service or 911 in India, particularly in Hyd or elsewhere. There may be some service like 108 etc but that is nothing. In a busy street or highway nobody cares if an ambulance is flashing its lights in Hyd. It is just one of the cars that goes along in the traffic.  OTOH, medicines can be bargained in medical shop, do you know that? If you tell the owner that you have only some amount of money, he will cut prices for you.

I am not a guy who insists that he only wears Raymond's or Bombay Dyeing Lungi that cost more. If I go back I will probably go to a village or town setting that is close to a good Train Station. Cell phone is so common these days that even the roadside cobbler and vendor of mangoes has one. So communication is not a problem like old days. AC for one room can be done with Rs 30K I think. Most folks I saw have their bedroom AC'ed and left the doors closed. It works OK. My folks have the same too.

Internet is cheap too. All Text+Voice+Data on a cell phone is like Rs 900 a month which translates to $20. Can you get that in USA? LOL.  So if you have a house in Hyd and want to live simple life, you can actually live very happily with SS income. And to own a car in Hyd city is actually a burden with gas prices and traffic. The best is to walk down the road and signal for an auto, pay for him and sit relaxed and watch traffic. But if I were you that retires, I hardly plan to go out of the house or travel so often. I would rather work in my backyard and have some small garden.

 i liked reading your post. funny, i was put up in the Ritz-Carlton for a week and as soon as i walked in i called up room-service for jasmine tea. there's this cyclospora outbreak in the US in the Midwest mostly where i was visiting and my tea must've contained the bug or smtg cuz i fell ill immediately or the maid was sick and she gave it to me. i realized i gotta stop relying on other people. i'm on flagyl now, and it's the toughest medicine to take ever. I've been feeling bilious, dizzy, and have to force myself to eat.

so while everything sounds appealing in your post - the 100 rupee immersible heater and the autos and the garden in the back, the bucolic life - i'm really not mocking you, i can't help wonder, don't you wonder about the pollution giving you asthma and the poor water supply? if you're an old guy you might actually die of a heat stroke or a salmonella infection - your maid might infect you. and of course, no woman is safe in india.

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:34 am

The Absolute Zero wrote:Good to read these responses.  But most of you are over estimating the expenses in India.  I have some people in India living in Hyd for Rs15K a month all inclusive in a 1 bed 1 bath apt.  No car is required.

The point is not live with the minimum possible rather what you need for your level of comfort.

Actually, I can heat a bucket of water outside in the sun for my bath, take the cheapest bus, eat at Amma's canteen, and if I like luxury then eat at Nair tea & bakery or Iyer coffee club. wear dhoti, lungi, and platform shirt. But, remember that you will be visiting relatives and your relatives will visit you and you need to treat them at least at your economic level.

The question is who is this estimate for? for a returning NRI or a low middle class living in India.I know some NRI Thathas who are living in india on SS incomean. The key is one should be flexible, accomodating, and adjusting. Of course, not easy with women and the cost will go up.

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Post by The Absolute Zero Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:38 am

[quote="pravalika nanda"]
 i liked reading your post. funny, i was put up in the Ritz-Carlton for a week and as soon as i walked in i called up room-service for jasmine tea. there's this cyclospora outbreak in the US in the Midwest mostly where i was visiting and my tea must've contained the bug or smtg cuz i fell ill immediately or the maid was sick and she gave it to me. i realized i gotta stop relying on other people. i'm on flagyl now, and it's the toughest medicine to take ever. I've been feeling bilious, dizzy, and have to force myself to eat.

so while everything sounds appealing in your post - the 100 rupee immersible heater and the autos and the garden in the back, the bucolic life - i'm really not mocking you, i can't help wonder, don't you wonder about the pollution giving you asthma and the poor water supply? if you're an old guy you might actually die of a heat stroke or a salmonella infection - your maid might infect you. and of course, no woman is safe in india.[/quote]

Nandaji,
Namaskaram :-)
The biggest problem with folks like you is that you take care of yourself TOO MUCH. Like the microbes need a human for survival, the human needs microbes for counter fight. So long as you take too much care of yourself, washing hands repeatedly, not touching anything clean (No I do not advocate those but once in a while mixing with those is not bad), taking flu shots without fail, not even touching some tea in India are your own problems.  You clearly lived in a bubble house before you went to India and assumed that the "Ritz Carlton" means the top level clean hotel. LOL. What you did not recognize was that the guys who work this RC, are common folk like me who mix and match with every thing in the backyard without your notice. So you got all those.

I went to India to mix with common folk. I ate from road side eateries sitting on char poy and also in posh hotels and even drank water from train stations. I took bath in the Indian river as well and felt it an exhilirating experience - watching my childhood grandfather's place. I was not sick - not even for half an hour.  BTW I ate freely without worrrying about calories or carbs or sugar. I drank gallons of Fanta drink after learning that the good old version of Goldspot was out of business.  I ate the Indian pickles heartily (Just made with the new mangoes) along with the sweets everyone offered.  I also ate at tiffin centers - Idli, puri, dosa, coffee etc regularly.  My kids even were bitten numerous times by mosquitoes.  The only fear I had was if any of those were carrying malaria.  Thankfully the testing of blood proved negative for malaria (for kids) after we came back to the USA.  Summer was hot but it is better than curling yourself up with a thick 14 layer comforter.  This time I did not even feel the jet lag, thanks to the United air's 13 hour flight - that looked like I slept in Delhi and woke up in NJ.

So next time allow yourself some lattitude, cut some corners, enjoy freedom in dirt. Nothing wrong with that. Putting yourself in a bubble is always a bad thing.  Even in the USA you need some dirt on hands to fight the microbes becuase once your body has the microbes THEN ONLY you have the fighers developed in the system. That is the main logic of even the flu shot you get every year. The flu shot injects dead virus in your body. If you already do not know please do ask a doctor. Maria will agree with me of course.

And finally, women are not safe anywhere in the USA. The basic reason is obvious - suppressed sexual ideas all over the country and world at large. I cannot point out a single cause for all your problems but India is alright, though I would not say 100% safe. Show me a place which is 100% safe for women on earth. Even in the Ramayana times Sita was not safe! She was abducted right from her own home. Was draupadi safe with five heroic husbands guarding her like hawks? Nope, Jayadradha abducted her too.

So do your own conclusions. For me, if I am able to get rid of my financial obligations - sooner the better - I will quit and go roaming back to the country with a single lion cloth. And if some ashram accepts me and provides me with two meals a day and low cloths per year, that is fine by me.  Thanks for reading.

And before concluding, let me quote Swami Vivekananda...."Before coming to America, India was my coountry, my mother land and my everything. But now having seen the west and toured extensively, every dirt particle in India means everything to me, more than the highest God. There is no holier place than It."  The "mera bharat mahan" slogan came in the last decade after the BJP took over for 5 years and blew air off their chests but Swamiji said this very slogan nearly 100 years ago!!

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Post by southindian Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:03 am

The Absolute Zero wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
 i liked reading your post. funny, i was put up in the Ritz-Carlton for a week and as soon as i walked in i called up room-service for jasmine tea. there's this cyclospora outbreak in the US in the Midwest mostly where i was visiting and my tea must've contained the bug or smtg cuz i fell ill immediately or the maid was sick and she gave it to me. i realized i gotta stop relying on other people. i'm on flagyl now, and it's the toughest medicine to take ever. I've been feeling bilious, dizzy, and have to force myself to eat.

so while everything sounds appealing in your post - the 100 rupee immersible heater and the autos and the garden in the back, the bucolic life - i'm really not mocking you, i can't help wonder, don't you wonder about the pollution giving you asthma and the poor water supply? if you're an old guy you might actually die of a heat stroke or a salmonella infection - your maid might infect you. and of course, no woman is safe in india.

Nandaji,
Namaskaram :-)
The biggest problem with folks like you is that you take care of yourself TOO MUCH. Like the microbes need a human for survival, the human needs microbes for counter fight. So long as you take too much care of yourself, washing hands repeatedly, not touching anything clean (No I do not advocate those but once in a while mixing with those is not bad), taking flu shots without fail, not even touching some tea in India are your own problems.  You clearly lived in a bubble house before you went to India and assumed that the "Ritz Carlton" means the top level clean hotel. LOL. What you did not recognize was that the guys who work this RC, are common folk like me who mix and match with every thing in the backyard without your notice. So you got all those.

I went to India to mix with common folk. I ate from road side eateries sitting on char poy and also in posh hotels and even drank water from train stations. I took bath in the Indian river as well and felt it an exhilirating experience - watching my childhood grandfather's place. I was not sick - not even for half an hour.  BTW I ate freely without worrrying about calories or carbs or sugar. I drank gallons of Fanta drink after learning that the good old version of Goldspot was out of business.  I ate the Indian pickles heartily (Just made with the new mangoes) along with the sweets everyone offered.  I also ate at tiffin centers - Idli, puri, dosa, coffee etc regularly.  My kids even were bitten numerous times by mosquitoes.  The only fear I had was if any of those were carrying malaria.  Thankfully the testing of blood proved negative for malaria (for kids) after we came back to the USA.  Summer was hot but it is better than curling yourself up with a thick 14 layer comforter.  This time I did not even feel the jet lag, thanks to the United air's 13 hour flight - that looked like I slept in Delhi and woke up in NJ.

So next time allow yourself some lattitude, cut some corners, enjoy freedom in dirt. Nothing wrong with that. Putting yourself in a bubble is always a bad thing.  Even in the USA you need some dirt on hands to fight the microbes becuase once your body has the microbes THEN ONLY you have the fighers developed in the system. That is the main logic of even the flu shot you get every year. The flu shot injects dead virus in your body. If you already do not know please do ask a doctor. Maria will agree with me of course.

And finally, women are not safe anywhere in the USA. The basic reason is obvious - suppressed sexual ideas all over the country and world at large. I cannot point out a single cause for all your problems but India is alright, though I would not say 100% safe. Show me a place which is 100% safe for women on earth. Even in the Ramayana times Sita was not safe! She was abducted right from her own home. Was draupadi safe with five heroic husbands guarding her like hawks? Nope, Jayadradha abducted her too.

So do your own conclusions. For me, if I am able to get rid of my financial obligations - sooner the better - I will quit and go roaming back to the country with a single lion cloth. And if some ashram accepts me and provides me with two meals a day and low cloths per year, that is fine by me.  Thanks for reading.

And before concluding, let me quote Swami Vivekananda...."Before coming to America, India was my coountry, my mother land and my everything. But now having seen the west and toured extensively, every dirt particle in India means everything to me, more than the highest God. There is no holier place than It."  The "mera bharat mahan" slogan came in the last decade after the BJP took over for 5 years and blew air off their chests but Swamiji said this very slogan nearly 100 years ago!!

 +1
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Post by The Absolute Zero Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:51 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar
The Absolute ZeroGood to read these responses.  But most of you are over estimating the expenses in India.  I have some people in India living in Hyd for Rs15K a month all inclusive in a 1 bed 1 bath apt.  No car is required.

The point is not live with the minimum possible rather what you need for your level of comfort. Actually, I can heat a bucket of water outside in the sun for my bath, take the cheapest bus, eat at Amma's canteen, and if I like luxury then eat at Nair tea & bakery or Iyer coffee club. wear dhoti, lungi, and platform shirt.  But, remember that you will be visiting relatives and your relatives will visit you and you need to treat them at least at your economic level.
The question is who is this estimate for? for a returning NRI or a low middle class living in India.I know some NRI Thathas who are living in india on SS incomean. The key is one should be flexible, accomodating, and adjusting. Of course, not easy with women and the cost will go up.
----------------
maharaj
The old adage says - be a Roman in Rome, an Indian in India and an Italian in Italy. When I got back I want to live like the Indian I was. Simply because I lived here in the west for N years, I won't become a Western or American.  If you want to heat water in the sun, you are welcome to do it, but please note that it can take hours :-) Also in the hot weather of India, you WILL find it easier to wear dhoti and do your daily rounds than wear sweat pants. After a couple of visits by relatives, I have guts to tell them where they belong. So I have no problems with that.

If you want to live like an American, you should live in this country after retirement and spend your time like you always did so far. I was talking about minimum requirements to live in India *if you plan to go back*.  If you want to go back and work in the same software field, you can live much better too.  It is your choice to buy a Hyandai or Ford and drive on streets of Indian cities and get dents (and get out and argue in loud voice and fight till either party budges). Or you can sit at home and have traffic free life.  Most companies these days provide some transportation like a private cab.  It is better to take that cab than buy a car and worry about gas, dents, roads and distracted driving and wear a mask for pollution.

With women costs of everythign is always up. If you want to be a successful man, you should earn more than your bivi can spend. Which means there is no successful man on the face of earth - not even the husband of Goddess Lakshmi.

So draw your own conclusions. I gave my ideas of living modestly when you retire.  This kind of retirement is far better than moving to costa rica and worry about immigration, language, job, insurance etc all over again. At least in India you will feel at home when you return and the biggest advantage is that nobody will pull a gun in the schools or at you on the roads. Yes there are other problems like bomb blasts etc but they happen all over the world.

If you have school going kids, wife that earns more than you, and other obligations, I did *NOT* give that estimation for you but if you want to retire and if you have no obligations NOW, yes you can live on SS Income. I standby my statements.  BTW as of today the $$ to rupee is 60.XX so it is better now too :-)

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Post by The Absolute Zero Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:13 pm

[quote="confuzzled dude"]I didn't know that TBT is retiring soon Wink

What about 5 Rupees full meals TAZ. You think you can get for Rs. 5 in Shameerpet or in one of those village hotels.[/quote]

No more Rs 5 full meals. Not in Shameer pet or anywhere in India. I guess Rs 20 can get you some meal but not full. You can eat something. But I did eat Rs. 60 meal that was more than full - unlimited food with at least 10 items including 2 curries, dal, rice, dahi, rasam, sweet etc. It was more than decent.  But if you cook at home or get a cook at home to prepare, it would be far less because you do not eat 10 items daily.

The local farmers market offers vegetables at cheaper prices and they are fresh and excellent. Price can be bargained even after the authorities post the prices on the common board outside the market. Mangoes are like Rs 30 a kilo which means you get 4 mangoes for 30 bucks (50 cents) which is fair price. (I estimate all these assuming some $$ income like soc. sec. Read my earlier posts for more info).  Prices are flexible and change daily of course.

In villages there is no need even to go to the market. The vendors come to your home with fresh methi leaves, curry leaves etc and you can sit in the front verandah and take your pick. Fresh of course because they sell daily a different veggie (or they go hungry). 

Villages of course have trouble of sanitation and sewer which imply more mosquitoes. But I used to live in such places with a mosquito net and it works fine. It does the purpose. If you keep your premises clean you can minimize flies and such insects. Not a big deal.

The servant maid that comes to your home is cheap in city (Rs 500 a mo) and she works only a few hours. She can wash utensils, clothes, clean rooms and also you can give her some left over food if you want. Most people are good workers too and are dependable. Do they cheat? Yea sure, why not? Using internet from office to see CH, what about us? Ditto with every human being. Given a chance everyone will cheat. Only the level of cheating differs.

I felt bad for not having a house in India because real estate is really a good investment. My earlier investments in real estate were not done correctly and money was refunded then (10 years ago). Had I bought an apt in India it is a great investment than putting money in 401K or even buying a GOOG/BRK.B Stock.

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Post by nevada Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:19 pm

I have a feeling AZ's family/relatives/friends understated cost of some items so that he doesn't get a heart attack. 500 rupees a month for a maid in the city? Which city? Mangoes at 30 a kilo? Don't think so. 15k per month living expenses? Maybe 15 years ago, not now.
But anyways, glad to see his love for the motherland and his enthusiasm for the simplicity of a bygone era.

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Post by Guest Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:49 pm

nevada wrote:500 rupees a month for a maid in the city?
hahahahahaha. he is merely projecting his dreams. ditto for uppli.

if you can heat water in the sun in winters then you don't need hot water (for your sintex roof tank already carries hot water by now). and see TAZ's reply (to uppili) to that assertion. both are clueless.

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:09 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
nevada wrote:500 rupees a month for a maid in the city?
hahahahahaha. he is merely projecting his dreams. ditto for uppli.

if you can heat water in the sun in winters then you don't need hot water (for your sintex roof tank already carries hot water by now). and see TAZ's reply (to uppili) to that assertion. both are clueless.

Dude: I do have a home in India with solar powered water heater, sintex tank+ borewell + 2 room A/Ced and 2 ar ports with no cars...I pay my taxes, tree cutting etc...

So I should know what I am talking about...and I am a middle class mama...TYPICAL...not the one with 8 "work" cars and 4 personal cars and calling myself middle class.

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Post by Guest Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:53 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
nevada wrote:500 rupees a month for a maid in the city?
hahahahahaha. he is merely projecting his dreams. ditto for uppli.

if you can heat water in the sun in winters then you don't need hot water (for your sintex roof tank already carries hot water by now). and see TAZ's reply (to uppili) to that assertion. both are clueless.

Dude: I do have a home in India with solar powered water heater, sintex tank+ borewell + 2 room A/Ced and 2 ar ports with no cars...I pay my taxes, tree cutting etc...

So I should know what I am talking about...and I am a middle class mama...TYPICAL...not the one with 8 "work" cars and 4 personal cars and calling myself middle class.
dude, tell me how you heat water in the sun during winters -- something your rooftop sintex tank can't do? do you use a magnifying glass to heat it?

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Post by pravalika nanda Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:24 am

The Absolute Zero wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
 i liked reading your post. funny, i was put up in the Ritz-Carlton for a week and as soon as i walked in i called up room-service for jasmine tea. there's this cyclospora outbreak in the US in the Midwest mostly where i was visiting and my tea must've contained the bug or smtg cuz i fell ill immediately or the maid was sick and she gave it to me. i realized i gotta stop relying on other people. i'm on flagyl now, and it's the toughest medicine to take ever. I've been feeling bilious, dizzy, and have to force myself to eat.

so while everything sounds appealing in your post - the 100 rupee immersible heater and the autos and the garden in the back, the bucolic life - i'm really not mocking you, i can't help wonder, don't you wonder about the pollution giving you asthma and the poor water supply? if you're an old guy you might actually die of a heat stroke or a salmonella infection - your maid might infect you. and of course, no woman is safe in india.

Nandaji,
Namaskaram :-)

**oh, namaskaram to you too.

The biggest problem with folks like you is that you take care of yourself TOO MUCH. Like the microbes need a human for survival, the human needs microbes for counter fight. So long as you take too much care of yourself, washing hands repeatedly, not touching anything clean (No I do not advocate those but once in a while mixing with those is not bad), taking flu shots without fail, not even touching some tea in India are your own problems.  You clearly lived in a bubble house before you went to India and assumed that the "Ritz Carlton" means the top level clean hotel. LOL. What you did not recognize was that the guys who work this RC, are common folk like me who mix and match with every thing in the backyard without your notice. So you got all those.

** look, I was in a fog yesterday from the meds so maybe I was unclear. I was trying to say that in India people rely on the help a great deal: the laundry girls, the dishwasher, the cook, the driver. Let me tell you about the driver, these guys pee on the street and come back to steer the wheel and you will definitely touch it the next day. Anyhow, there are way too many middlemen to get a day's work done, too many sources of infection to deal with. In America, you don't have to deal with this nonsense unless you have to travel and stay in a hotel.


** yes, when I walked in to the rc, I thought I was gonna have fun, everything was so shiny, so i was caught off-guard...and all i did was drink tea! i'm not one of those folks who takes care of herself a lot - apart from my awesome smoothie for bright skin and shiny hair i have nothing else going for me. I've never even completed a course of hep b shots. no worries, my titers were okay. and i got a flu shot for the first time last year cuz my chair forced me to. Anyways, dude, my work puts me in the very opposite of the bubble.

I went to India to mix with common folk.

** ha, i caught you being snooty.

I ate from road side eateries sitting on char poy and also in posh hotels and even drank water from train stations. I took bath in the Indian river as well and felt it an exhilirating experience - watching my childhood grandfather's place. I was not sick - not even for half an hour.  BTW I ate freely without worrrying about calories or carbs or sugar. I drank gallons of Fanta drink after learning that the good old version of Goldspot was out of business.  I ate the Indian pickles heartily (Just made with the new mangoes) along with the sweets everyone offered.  I also ate at tiffin centers - Idli, puri, dosa, coffee etc regularly.  My kids even were bitten numerous times by mosquitoes.  The only fear I had was if any of those were carrying malaria.  Thankfully the testing of blood proved negative for malaria (for kids) after we came back to the USA.  Summer was hot but it is better than curling yourself up with a thick 14 layer comforter.  This time I did not even feel the jet lag, thanks to the United air's 13 hour flight - that looked like I slept in Delhi and woke up in NJ.

So next time allow yourself some lattitude, cut some corners, enjoy freedom in dirt. Nothing wrong with that. Putting yourself in a bubble is always a bad thing.  Even in the USA you need some dirt on hands to fight the microbes becuase once your body has the microbes THEN ONLY you have the fighers developed in the system. That is the main logic of even the flu shot you get every year. The flu shot injects dead virus in your body. If you already do not know please do ask a doctor. Maria will agree with me of course.

And finally, women are not safe anywhere in the USA.

** women are much safer here than in india. actually there are lots of indian men who're scared of American women. ask propa or bittu, they've actually said that here. American men are not sexually suppressed, they get lots of action, you need to interact with normal people more. And there's less porn and crap here. Also, I've returned home alone past 2am on several occ. In india you can't take public transport or autos by yourself if you're a woman. that's messed up.

The basic reason is obvious - suppressed sexual ideas all over the country and world at large. I cannot point out a single cause for all your problems but India is alright, though I would not say 100% safe. Show me a place which is 100% safe for women on earth. Even in the Ramayana times Sita was not safe! She was abducted right from her own home. Was draupadi safe with five heroic husbands guarding her like hawks? Nope, Jayadradha abducted her too.

** draupadi was not safe even from her husbands, they were all faggots that i'd never even look at. didn't yudhistra try to sell her clothing at one point or cry some tears when someone was pulling her infiniti saree in public? those sarees look cheap too.

So do your own conclusions. For me, if I am able to get rid of my financial obligations - sooner the better - I will quit and go roaming back to the country with a single lion cloth. And if some ashram accepts me and provides me with two meals a day and low cloths per year, that is fine by me.  Thanks for reading.

And before concluding, let me quote Swami Vivekananda...."Before coming to America, India was my coountry, my mother land and my everything. But now having seen the west and toured extensively, every dirt particle in India means everything to me, more than the highest God. There is no holier place than It."  The "mera bharat mahan" slogan came in the last decade after the BJP took over for 5 years and blew air off their chests but Swamiji said this very slogan nearly 100 years ago!!

** well, America in those days was a bigoted nation...so he may have said that, but i don't see how he's relevant now.

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Post by pravalika nanda Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:34 am

Oh, I think Karna got it right, here from Wikipedia: "Karna insulted Draupadi by saying that Pandavas were all like sesame seeds removed from the kernel and she should now find some other worthy husbands."

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:05 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
nevada wrote:500 rupees a month for a maid in the city?
hahahahahaha. he is merely projecting his dreams. ditto for uppli.

if you can heat water in the sun in winters then you don't need hot water (for your sintex roof tank already carries hot water by now). and see TAZ's reply (to uppili) to that assertion. both are clueless.

Dude: I do have a home in India with solar powered water heater, sintex tank+ borewell + 2 room A/Ced and 2 ar ports with no cars...I pay my taxes, tree cutting etc...

So I should know what I am talking about...and I am a middle class mama...TYPICAL...not the one with 8 "work" cars and 4 personal cars and calling myself middle class.
dude, tell me how you heat water in the sun during winters -- something your rooftop sintex tank can't do? do you use a magnifying glass to heat it?

Do you know what winter means in Madras and in TN ?....it is still around 85 to 90 F or close to 30 to 35 C. I said heating a bucket of water keeping it in the hot sun...I remember my grandma used to do that for me to take shower after I come home playing in the ground. The water used to be quite warm to take a comfortable bath. No magnifying glass needed.

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Post by Captain Bhankas Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:37 am

The Absolute Zero wrote:I drank gallons of Fanta drink after learning that the good old version of Goldspot was out of business.

so you are telling all of us here that you went back to india after, what.. err.. a century?
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Post by The Absolute Zero Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:51 am

[quote="Captain Bhankas"][quote="The Absolute Zero"]I drank gallons of Fanta drink [b]after learning that the good old version of Goldspot was out of business.[/b][/quote]

so you are telling all of us here that you went back to india after, what.. err.. a century?
[/quote]

 8 years

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