Communal and casteist people and politicians

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Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:16 am

Communal and casteist people and politicians include the promoters and perpetuators of  communalism and casteism in society / country,
 
(1)  through their support and preference for separate religious laws for different communities, instead of having the UCC or Uniform Civil Code in the country (one law for everyone, irrespective of religion, race, caste and gender);
 
(2)  through their support and preference for quotas in education and jobs etc. on the basis of religion, instead of using the economic (poverty) condition of the recipient as the consideration (irrespective of his / her religious belief);
 
(3)  through their support and preference for quotas in education and jobs on the basis of caste, instead of using the economic (poverty) condition of the recipient as the consideration (irrespective of his / her caste);  and
 
(4)  through their support and preference to have the caste included in the Govt. census.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Rishi on Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:25 am

Seva,

We should only worry about stuff we can do something about.

Caste quota is here to stay. No amount of complaining about it will make the situation better.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:36 am

Rishi wrote:Seva,

We should only worry about stuff we can do something about.

Caste quota is here to stay. No amount of complaining about it will make the situation better.

It's not complaining, Rishi. It's talking about and recognizing as to what is feeding the casteism and communalism and who the real casteists and communalists are.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by truthbetold on Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:48 am

[quote="Seva Lamberdar"]Communal and casteist people and politicians include the promoters and perpetuators of  communalism and casteism in society / country,
 
 
(3)  through their support and preference for quotas in education and jobs on the basis of caste, instead of using the economic (poverty) condition of the recipient as the consideration (irrespective of his / her caste);  

Seva.,
why should any preference be given based on economic consideration?
I asked you this question before. You did not answer the question or you skirted around the question.
It is ok to say I do not know.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Maria S on Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:09 am

Good Morning dear Seva!

Nice to see you around, that's all.

No comments:)

take care.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:29 am

Good Morning dear Maria.
Nice to see you back and posting.
Take care,
Seva

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:32 am

truthbetold wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Communal and casteist people and politicians include the promoters and perpetuators of  communalism and casteism in society / country,
 
 
(3)  through their support and preference for quotas in education and jobs on the basis of caste, instead of using the economic (poverty) condition of the recipient as the consideration (irrespective of his / her caste);  

Seva.,
why should any preference be given based on economic consideration?
I asked you this question before. You did not answer  the question or you skirted around the question.
It is ok to say I do not know.
 
TBT, my stand is quite clear. If Govt. is going to help people, it should be done according to the recipient's economic need (poverty) and not  his / her caste or religion.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by truthbetold on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:35 am

The question is what is so sanctimonious about economic need? It is probably obvious to you but some of us seek answers. Please explain.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:34 am

truthbetold wrote:The question is what is so sanctimonious about economic need? It is probably obvious to you but some of us seek answers.  Please explain.
 
As long as the Govt. continues to give benefits / quotas in education and jobs to people on the basis of caste and religion, instead of economic condition / poverty, there will be such questions and negative reaction by people. Please note the following (which I posted in response to your comment on another thread).
 
It's really Govt. and its economists' responsibility to define the poverty line / limit properly.

It seems until quite recently, India (especially the Govt.) had no idea or concept about the poverty line or limit for its citizens.

Four or five years ago (as indicated below), while working on the blog / blogs on India's hypocrisy in granting the caste based quotas in education and jobs while ignoring the economic poverty of people / recipients, I needed a number on the poverty line / limit in India,  but there was no such info. available. So, finally, I used the World bank's figure of 1 dollar / day (roughly Rs. 50 / day) for poverty figure in the Third World countries as  also applicable for India's poor (poverty limit: Rs. 50 / day, or Rs. 1500 / month) in my blogs.

It seems people and politicians in India have started talking now about poor and poverty in terms of poverty line / limit even though the poverty limit figure used by them might be quite questionable.

Excerpts from my blog from four and a half yeas ago:


APPENDIX
How creamy is the Creamy Layer



Creamy layer is the upper limit on income for an OBC family to retain its eligibility in reservations and quotas in education and jobs. Currently, the creamy layer for OBC is set at Rs. 4.5 lakhs per annum which translates to Rs. 37500 per month.

On the other hand, for a SC/ST family there does not seem to be any such limit (creamy layer) on the family income. In other words, no matter how high the income of a SC/ST family (even if more than Rs. 4.5 lakhs per annum -- the current creamy layer for OBC) it will continue to receive quota benefits in jobs etc.

Note also that the poverty line or limit for a family in India currently is about Rs. 1500 per month (Rs. 18000 per annum). Many non-quota (“upper” caste) families currently earn and live below that income (poverty line) and are still not considered eligible for Govt. help in education and jobs because they are not a part of OBC or SC/ST. Thus the relatively high creamy layer of Rs. 4.5 lakhs per annum (Rs. 37500 per month) makes many high income earning OBC families eligible for quotas in education and jobs; and it appears to be quite creamy, unjustifiable and ridiculously high, especially considering that the national poverty limit is only Rs. 18000 per annum (Rs. 1500 per month) and many “upper” caste people are earning and living below it without being eligible for Govt. help (2).
(Ref.: http://creative.sulekha.com/politicization-of-caste-system_456766_blog)

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by truthbetold on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:41 am

Seva.,
Creamy layer is a related but different questions.
It is becoming clear that you do not have an answer as to why govt should help people with economic need.
You can admit that and start searching for answers or keep doing what you are doing 'beating around the Bush'.


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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:46 am

truthbetold wrote:Seva.,
Creamy layer is a related but different questions.
It is becoming clear that you do not have an answer as to why govt should help people with economic need.
You can admit that and start searching for answers or keep doing what you are doing 'beating around the Bush'.


TBT, as I indicated earlier, If Govt. is going to help people in education and jobs (which it has been doing for the past sixty years), it should do so according to the recipient's economic need (poverty) and not his / her caste or religion.


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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by truthbetold on Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:23 pm

Seva,
You are repeating your prescribed solution.
Let me explain.
If you were a medical doctor and I were a patient (God help me) and if you tell me to take an aspirin a day, your response may make sense.
But if you were a doctor engaged in a conversation with another doctor about a particularly difficult diagnosis and if the second doctor asks
What is the cause(problem) ?
Would you say I asked the patient to take aspirin.
That was your response above.
The second doctor's expectation is that you will say
"Patient gave such and such symptoms and I performed such and such tests. My reading of x rays etc showed such and such problem sources. Based on such and such reasons I arrived at the conclusion that the root cause(s) is xyz. So I prescribed aspirin. What do you think?"
can you now explain why you think someone with economic need should get govt help?


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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka on Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:41 pm

TB
 Let me elaborate on Seva's behalf. If the current reservations policy perpetuates, caste-based politics will perpetuate and society will continue to be divided based on caste. If people are helped in education based on economic need, for most poor people who can't afford education, the major hurdle is removed. The whole society will have the opportunity to get educated. Projecting this to a longer period of time, both economic backwardness as well as ignorance can be minimized. It is a great equalizer, morale booster and a catalyst for prosperity building. The dividend for the country will be enormous. It is a win win situation.

The mid-day meal program, where all kids eat together at school, is another great, equalizing program as long as fukular corruption doesn't creep in.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka on Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:06 pm

The mid-day meal program has an interesting history. It was originally introduced in Madras during the British era (1920s?) to encourage poor families to send their kids to school. The program currently in place was started by PV Narasimha Rao's govt. in early 1990's. In my village, my aunt copied the British program to encourage poor kids to go to school. She was also responsible for integrating mala and madiga kids (SC) into the main-stream school. A great lady.

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:08 pm

Thanks Sandilya, for the input/s

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Re: Communal and casteist people and politicians

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