Telangana position on river waters

by indophile Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:39 am

http://www.telangana.com/irrigation.htm

by Propagandhi711 Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:58 am

their position:
hyrabad iyyundri, neetini iyyundri, gatlane saara botal iyyundri, meeru bondri

by Idéfix Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:37 pm

indophile wrote:http://www.telangana.com/irrigation.htm

Interesting, thanks for posting this.

by goodcitizn Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:25 pm

indophile wrote:http://www.telangana.com/irrigation.htm

I was surprised to read the following. Telangana is certain to create water problems for SA if and when the bifurcation happens.

The river Godavari flows for about 79% of its catchment area in Telangana. Geographically about 70% of Telangana land is suitable for irrigation. On this basis Telangana region should get 70% (1036 TMC) allocation out of 1480 TMC and the rest of 30% (144 TMC) only should have been allocated to Andhra region. But the ground realities are quite different and shocking. The water utilization under Godavari basin is about 760 TMC so far, out of which 320 TMC of water is being diverted to Andhra region as against 124 TMC. This resulted in diverting 281 TMC of water from Telangana region to Andhra region.

River Krishna is no different from river Godavari. River Krishna flows for about 68.5% in the catchment area in Telangana and 31.5% catchment in Andhra region. Only 37% of water (266.8 TMC) is allocated to Telangana region against 68.5%. Where as 500.1 TMC water is allocated to Andhra region. Only 27% of water is available for cultivable lands in Telangana. It means 50% of the Ayacut under Krishna basin in Telagana is not getting water.

by indophile Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:31 pm

I doubt the 70% catchment claim. For example the table at the following site shows something different.

http://nwda.gov.in/writereaddata/linkimages/2180117850.pdf

by goodcitizn Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:12 pm

indophile wrote:I doubt the 70% catchment claim. For example the table at the following site shows something different.
http://nwda.gov.in/writereaddata/linkimages/2180117850.pdf

Regardless it is a problem itching in the sidelines and waiting to happen.

by Idéfix Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:48 pm

indophile wrote:I doubt the 70% catchment claim. For example the table at the following site shows something different.

http://nwda.gov.in/writereaddata/linkimages/2180117850.pdf

The number would make sense if meant as "79% of the Godavari catchment area within Andhra Pradesh is in Telangana, and the remaining 21% in coastal Andhra."

Below is a map of the Godavari basin from the federal Ministry of Water Resources. The boundary between Telangana and coastal Andhra is downstream of Bhadrachalam on this map. You can see that the bulk of the catchment area within AP is in Telangana.
Telangana position on river waters Img14

Telangana position on river waters Img14

by Idéfix Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:52 pm

And here is a map of the Krishna river basin, again from the union Ministry of Water Resources.
Telangana position on river waters Img16

The river itself is the border between Telangana and Seemandhra from Karnataka all the way to just upstream (i.e. to the west) of Vijayawada, where the border cross the river. As you can see, a large chunk of the catchment area that is in Andhra Pradesh is in Telangana.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:15 pm

In distributing water from rivers, the existing land in cultivation is taken into account. Water can not be diverted from areas that have been cultivated for a long time.

So, when a tribunal looks into water sharing, they will award based on existing usage plus bringing in additional land into cultivation (the latter happens to be in Telangana).

For any govt (CONs or BJP), it will be foolhardy to make the Godavari and Krishna deltas, two of the most fertile areas in the country, deserts while satisfying the desires of Telangana.

Telangana can't have it both ways - grab the 2013's Hyderabad and a major portion of Godavari and Krishna water.

If AP has to be split into two, I would split it horizontally along Krishna and Godavari with Hyderabad as the capital for the Southern state and Secunderabad as the capital of the Northern state. This way, neither Telangana nor Seemandhra will deprive the other of revenue or water.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:30 pm

indophile wrote:I doubt the 70% catchment claim. For example the table at the following site shows something different.

http://nwda.gov.in/writereaddata/linkimages/2180117850.pdf

Seemandhra politicians have been foolish. Once the state is split into two, they will not only have problems with Hyderabad but also with water sharing. Telangana politicians (not just KCR) won't let Semandhra people live in peace. They will soft peddle until the separation is official and become like Pakis right after that. Mark my word for it.

MT has done a lot of injustice to Seemandhra just to get some MPs from Telangana. Seemandhra should never forgive her for what she has done. Same goes for Telangana politicians (I heard Kodandaram changing his tune recently - he is now saying that the separation is not for the backwardness of Telangana but it is for the pride!).

Hopefully, there are some proud and caring SA politicians who will work for the welfare of SA people.

by truthbetold Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:46 pm

Vp garu,
you are on a roll.
the present trajectory of politics indicate t will get 2013 hyd and poorly worded river water sharing agreement.
Why should any t leader relent on sermandhra demands once t state is declared.
The United ap is now history. That broken glass can never be put together again.
there is no force on earth that can force an unwilling twice cheated t person to live in a United andhra. Forget it.
Sonia,'s inept handling of t declaration without proper homework leaves seemandhra no leverage. All promises of money and water sharing are bogus and seemandhra will suffer.

by indophile Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:42 pm

Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:48 pm

Idéfix wrote:
The river itself is the border between Telangana and Seemandhra from Karnataka all the way to just upstream (i.e. to the west) of Vijayawada, where the border cross the river. As you can see, a large chunk of the catchment area that is in Andhra Pradesh is in Telangana.

My dear Telengans and Andhrans: your river problems will be similar to Cauvery. Politicians were indeed fools and did not care to kill the rice bowl of India. Much of the catchment of Cauvery is in Karnataka while much of the agri land WAS in TN (only now karnataka has developed significantly.).

You guys wont settle for any waters peacefully, and Krnataka and Maharashtra aint going to cooperate. You guys are daydreaming.

by truthbetold Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:31 pm

Uppili,
I agree with you on the water war issue. So does Vp, and idefix. The problem is only going yo get worse with weather changes. The deltas is coastal belt will dry up.
Another example is Colorado river delta in Mexico. The entire population lost their land and Colorado is not even considered a major river after Hoover dam.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:38 pm

truthbetold wrote:Uppili,
The problem is only going yo get worse with weather changes. .

do you mean climate change?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:41 pm

truthbetold wrote:Uppili,
I agree with you on the water war issue. So does Vp, and idefix. The problem is only going yo get worse with weather changes. The deltas is coastal belt will dry up.
Another example is Colorado river delta in Mexico. The entire population lost their land and Colorado is not even considered a major river after Hoover dam.

not a drop of water goes to Mexico out of Colorado river. Like China US did not bother about any international water treaty. hey why should the upstream ppl care?

same thing about Rio Grande - which is anything but Grand.

(That is why everytime KV claims that international tribunal will award water to a free TN I laugh).

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:56 am

indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.

Important points. Thanks.

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:10 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.
Important points. Thanks.

Which region would benefit when Polavaram project is completed. I'm always confused about this project.

by truthbetold Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:22 am

Primarily west godavari . Adjacent district east godavari may get some benefit.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:49 pm

I have seen analysis attributed to kaam-chor Kodandaram. - Coastal people were ruled by the British and were exposed to modern ways, where as, Telanganites were not. The latter are used to the Zamindari system. So, the two regions are not culturally on the same page! So, according to Kodandaram, Telangana will be better off to split off and do things according to its own culture and tradition.

What is he suggesting? Does he want Telanganites to live like him (collecting a salary without showing up for work)? Does he think that the zamindari system (doras and servants) can continue and build prosperity for Telanganites? Under the Zamindari system, during the Nizam' era, all that happened was that the NIzam became the richest man in the world and built himself a good city to live in, the zamindars sucked the blood of the poor Telanganites and became rich while keeping the region backward. Does Kodandaram want Telangana to continue in this fashion? What does he gain by separation?

Costa families will gradually withdraw from Hyderabad and correct the mistake they made (of putting all their eggs in one basket). Meanwhile, the agencies that have been helping Hyderabad are becoming unsure. Naxalites are waiting to show how they translate their disgust into action against the "doras". Kodandaram has promised jobs for Telanganites once the state is separated (by throwing coastal guys out - according to KCR and the gang).

The world is watching and is re-assessing its involvement in Hyderabad:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Bifurcation-decision-of-Hyderabad-hits-external-loans/articleshow/21887623.cms

by indophile Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:34 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.
Important points. Thanks.
Which region would benefit when Polavaram project is completed. I'm always confused about this project.

Orissa says 19 acres of its territory (jungle land) will be submerged because of the project and so they wouldn't sign off on it unless the dam height is reduced. This is the project that provides water to thosands of acres in Andhra. Chattisgarh has similar claims wrt to submerged areas. Then there is always the water need in Telangana (the only problem is some areas of Telangana are at a much higher elevation and water cannot flow by gravity to those areas).

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:57 am

indophile wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.
Important points. Thanks.
Which region would benefit when Polavaram project is completed. I'm always confused about this project.
Orissa says 19 acres of its territory (jungle land) will be submerged because of the project and so they wouldn't sign off on it unless the dam height is reduced. This is the project that provides water to thosands of acres in Andhra. Chattisgarh has similar claims wrt to submerged areas. Then there is always the water need in Telangana (the only problem is some areas of Telangana are at a much higher elevation and water cannot flow by gravity to those areas).

KCR on hooch says, "Andhrawaalon brought gravity in money bags to increase the height of Telangana to deny water to them". If Andhrawalon leave Telangana, the height of Telangana will become lower and the river water from Chattisgarh and Odisha will flow backwards to Adilabad and Karimnagar..

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:17 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
KCR on hooch says, "Andhrawaalon brought gravity in money bags to increase the height of Telangana to deny water to them". If Andhrawalon leave Telangana, the height of Telangana will become lower and the river water from Chattisgarh and Odisha will flow backwards to Adilabad and Karimnagar..

There is a potential PM candidate - someone should inform KCR.

At the minimum, the Telengans are lucky to have a leader and a visionary of the caliber of KCR.

Congrats to PP and all Telengans.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:35 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
KCR on hooch says, "Andhrawaalon brought gravity in money bags to increase the height of Telangana to deny water to them". If Andhrawalon leave Telangana, the height of Telangana will become lower and the river water from Chattisgarh and Odisha will flow backwards to Adilabad and Karimnagar..
There is a potential PM candidate - someone should inform KCR.

At the minimum, the Telengans are lucky to have a leader and a visionary of the caliber of KCR.

Congrats to PP and all Telengans.

True. SA politicians are doing nothing even when KCR has been spreading blatant lies that only Telangana contributed to the building of Hyderabad. SA paid taxes to both dynasties (Qutub Shahi and Nizam) that built Hyderabad. KCR was successful in pulling the wool over the eyes of MT and the CWC.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:25 pm

indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.

That's right. IMO, the most efficient allocation would be on that produces the highest total output, and that is also an argument for maintaining a higher allocation to coastal Andhra than its share of the catchment area.

by Idéfix Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:27 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Under the Zamindari system, during the Nizam' era, all that happened was that the NIzam became the richest man in the world and built himself a good city to live in, the zamindars sucked the blood of the poor Telanganites and became rich while keeping the region backward.

That is exactly right! This is how Hyderabad became the fifth largest city of post-Partition India. Before the Nizams, it wasn't that big.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:29 pm

Idéfix wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Under the Zamindari system, during the Nizam' era, all that happened was that the NIzam became the richest man in the world and built himself a good city to live in, the zamindars sucked the blood of the poor Telanganites and became rich while keeping the region backward.
That is exactly right! This is how Hyderabad became the fifth largest city of post-Partition India. Before the Nizams, it wasn't that big.

For that..you should Thank the Thamizhans for the solid foundation they built prior to 1955 and the Andhrans to carry on and build the megapolis after 1955.... Razz

.

You are welcome.

by indophile Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:33 pm

Idéfix wrote:
indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.
That's right. IMO, the most efficient allocation would be on that produces the highest total output, and that is also an argument for maintaining a higher allocation to coastal Andhra than its share of the catchment area.

As I said, "catchment area" may be one of the many factors, but not the only factor. Those other factors are - contribution (rainfall) of the area to the water flowing in the river, present and projected landuse patterns, relative populations, and the most overriding factor in many cases - the geography itself. You can't build dams except in optimum locations (width and flow in the river, extent and nature of the landuse in the area to be submerged, topographic realities for transporting water through canals by gravity, etc.). If allocations based on all of these factors result in SA getting more water than the size of its catchment, and Telangana getting less, or vice versa, so be it. At least it will be an equitable distribution

by Propagandhi711 Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:40 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Idéfix wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Under the Zamindari system, during the Nizam' era, all that happened was that the NIzam became the richest man in the world and built himself a good city to live in, the zamindars sucked the blood of the poor Telanganites and became rich while keeping the region backward.
That is exactly right! This is how Hyderabad became the fifth largest city of post-Partition India. Before the Nizams, it wasn't that big.
For that..you should Thank the Thamizhans for the solid foundation they built prior to 1955 and the Andhrans to carry on and build the megapolis after 1955.....

You are welcome.

funny how you still manage to make do with that shithole for capital. at the national level, it's calcutta, chennai & then the rest of state capitals from the ground up

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:00 pm

indophile wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
indophile wrote:Catchment area is one factor among others. Present land use and projected use are also factors. But water contribution to the river is also a factor. A significant amount of water in Godavari is due to the catchment areas in Chattisgarh and Orissa (Indravati and Sabari, and high rainfall areas. In contrast, Telangana may have a relatively large catchment area, but relatively not much contribution to the water flowing in the river.
Important points. Thanks.
Which region would benefit when Polavaram project is completed. I'm always confused about this project.
Orissa says 19 acres of its territory (jungle land) will be submerged because of the project and so they wouldn't sign off on it unless the dam height is reduced. This is the project that provides water to thosands of acres in Andhra. Chattisgarh has similar claims wrt to submerged areas. Then there is always the water need in Telangana (the only problem is some areas of Telangana are at a much higher elevation and water cannot flow by gravity to those areas).

Yup, the involvement of several states (lands) & injustice to telangana is what complicates everything and confuses me. They're trying to get it national status so the process will be funded by the centre. This project has been in works for about a century; what's the rush let it take another century.

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