Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

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Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by ashdoc on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:16 am

Liberals rule the roost in Bollywood . And their version of liberalism nowadays consists of portraying the very forces that defend the Indian state and on whom the state depends for survival ( like the armed forces for instance ) as villains . 

In other countries such a portrayal of the forces that defend the nation as villains would have been instantly clamped down upon . For if such a portrayal is done repeatedly , then the morale of the armed forces would go down ; they would feel let down by their own people and would not be enthusiastic about defending the country anymore .

But in India anything goes....India is a sab chalta hai country where there is no respect for the armed forces and any expression of nationalism is frowned upon by the intellectual classes . An atmosphere of vegetarianism has made Indians weak and effeminate and ready to get themselves trampled upon by anyone who has the chutzpah to do so .

The movie 'Haider' is the product of such an environment . People who are in open rebellion against India in Kashmir are openly shown as heroes in the film . People who are defending the interests of the Indian state ( like Kashmiris who are on India's side ) are shown as villains . People who are against Indian rule in Kashmir fight 'heroically' against all the odds ; they are eulogized as martyrs dying for a just cause . But people who defend India die dog's deaths . 

....And the amazing fact is that the censors have passed the film with several cuts ; but they have not had the guts to ban the film entirely . 
How could they ?? If they banned the whole movie , then the entire liberal/secular lobby would be up in arms ; their version of freedom consists of allowing anti national forces to voice their dissent and clamp down upon any attempt by any Indian to act tough . 

And the even more amazing fact is that there is not a murmur of protest from the common man . Vegetarianism and the pacifism that goes with it have struck such deep roots in our society that it has drained our vitals of any reserves of manliness ; we allow the so called 'liberals' to take charge of our pathetic lives....

There are so many anti national moments in the film that I won't bother to enumerate them . Searching on the internet for these anti national moments in the film yielded results ; I found what I was searching for on 'Deshgujarat' website . 

The following is a copy/paste from 'Deshgujarat' website---

Copy/paste---

Quote:
-The film is anti-national.
-The film is against Armed Forces Special Power Act. The film is against India and Pakistan both. The film favors freedom of Kashmir from both India and Pakistan. The film also gives message that while freedom of Kashmir is justified, the use of weapons to achieve freedom is not proper.
-The film portrays Indian Army as unwanted, flirt, human right offender, cruel.
-In one of the first scenes, Indian Army has been shown blowing a house in which militant is hiding and offering Namaz.
-In another scene, Army man has been shown behaving loosely with Kashmiri woman reporter. It was kinda flirting.
-In one scene, Kashmir Police kill militants in custody in a house, and call press to impress Delhi. Pro-Indian Kashmir police man says, “these days even dead militant is worth Rs. 1 lakh.”
-In one scene, Army men are all set to cut private part of a militant suspect believed involved in killing of 20 persons in bomb blast case. Suspect is shouting that he is just a student and not militant.
-The hero kills three persons in this movie. Two of them are Kashmir police’s informer, and one is Kashmir police officer. All of them working for Indian Army. The Hero kills informers with big stones, and police man with bullet of pistol given to him by militants.
-In one scene, Hero Shahid Kapoor is standing in Lal Chowk of Srinagar and shouting: Is paar bhi chahiye azadi, us par bhi chahiye azadi. He says Kashmir wants freedom from both India and Pakistan on both sides of Line of Control.
-In one scene the film shows that Indian Army trained armed group kills terror suspects by throwing them in river from a bridge.
-In one scene in movie they show newspaper heading claiming ’8,000 Kashmiris still missing in Kashmir’.
-In one scene, Heroine Tabbtsum (Tabbu) says: Disappeared people’s wives are called half widows. They have to wait for their men or dead bodies of their men.
-In one scene, during a duologue, the director deliberately shows ‘Go India Go Back’ slogan on a wall in background.
-One of the dialogue in film: Nehru had promised plebiscite in Lal Chowk, but that didn’t happen, the first condition of plebiscite was demilitarization, but that too didn’t happen.
-In one scene, they show a truck carrying dead bodies. In another scene ‘Association of Missing Kashmiri’ has been shown protesting against Indian Army. The Hero of the film is among them.
-In one scene, when Hero reaches military camp with photo copies of his missing father’s picture and inquire about him, an Army man has been shown throwing all the copies in air arrogantly.
-The Hero in one scene says: Entire Kashmir is a prison.
-The Hero compares Armed Forces Special Power Act(AFSPA) as Chutzpa. He sayd Chutzpa is Hibru word.
-In one scene, a lawyer tells missing person’s relative that there has to be FIR in police to save missing person from disappearance.
-One of the dialogue in the film: In Kashmir, there’s God above and Army on the ground. Upar Khuda hai, niche fauj hai.
-In the song, they have placed a black dressed devil’s puppet inside the Sun temple in centre. This Sun temple was destroyed by Islamic invaders in the past. The devil puppet(Hindu Indian military?) in center of the gate of the temple has been shown throwing persons(Kashmiri Muslim) in river symbolically.
Indeed as the site says , the Indian army has been shown killing innocent Kashmiris and throwing their bodies in rivers . Generally it has been shown as not respectful of human rights and responsible for thousands of missing persons ( presumably all innocent but killed ) in the film . Indian rule is shown as a tyranny that all Kashmiris want to escape from . 

The director is most probably a 'bleeding heart liberal' whose heart bleeds for those Kashmiris who are subject to regular checks at checkpoints by the Indian army . But the bleeding stops there....the director has no problems with those Kashmiris who resort to terrorism and violence against the state . One would be forgiven if one started believing that the movie was funded by Pakistan....

The story begins with a doctor surreptitiously taking a kashmiri terrorist who has been wounded into his house for treatment instead of handing him over to the army . His sympathies are obviously with the terrorists . But the army gets wind of this and the doctor is arrested while the terrorist is killed by the army by blowing up the doctor's house . Now why would the army act differently ?? The doctor is harboring a terrorist after all .

But no , later the director shows the person who informed the army as the villain . Or rather , it is the villain of the film who informed the army . So the director of the film wants to say that the act of informing the army about a terrorist is an act of villainy which only the villain of the film can do !! Does the director want to say that terrorists ought to be saved and those who inform about people harboring terrorists are bad people ?? Certainly I feel so....

The doctor's son Haider ( played by Shahid Kapoor ) comes back to see his mother openly cavorting with his uncle---and clearly romancing the uncle . Haider is filled with rage and hate . He makes his sympathies clear by calling the town of Anantnag as 'Islamabad' , which is the name given to it by Kashmiri terrorists . Of course , Islamabad is also the capital of Pakistan---so we are given a not to subtle hint of where his real sympathies lie....

The local Kashmiri police officer's daughter ( played by Shraddha Kapoor ) is in love with Haider , but this is opposed by he family who are sided with India . Is it for this perfidy ( of siding with India ) that the family has to die in the end in an orgy of violence ?? ---presumably that is what the director feels should happen to those Kashmiris who side with India in the Kashmir conflict . 

A man affiliated with Pakistan backed terrorists ( played by Irfan Khan ) contacts Haider and informs him about his father and about the fact that father wants him to take revenge on his uncle ( played superbly by the redoubtable Kay Kay Menon ) who has been romancing his wife (Haider's mother) behind his back . And a gun is given to him to take revenge....

The uncle has a different story to tell---of Pakistan backed terrorists hatching a plan to make Haider angry and against India . Haider is in the midst of a dilemma as to whom to believe , but his eyes seem maddened by hate for his uncle . And he genuinely becomes a psycho for a while . This part ( of going mad ) is the part where Shahid has acted brilliantly and the film is at it's best .

So who's version of the story is true ?? 
What happened to Haider's father ?? 
What is the role of Haider's mother ( played by Tabu ) in all this ??

Watch the movie for the answers if you want to go against my advice...

As the movie moves towards the the climax , all those who sided with India are killed in brutal fashion . Again I have to ask---Is that what the director feels should happen to those who take India's side ??

The director does have solution for Kashmir's demand for Azadi----he feels it should be achieved with gandhian methods ( just like India achieved it from Britain ) rather than violence , for violence and revenge will lead only to more revenge and more killing....

Verdict---The movie is more like an art movie rather than commercial . Not entertaining .
But that is not reason why I asking you not to watch it . One film won't make much difference , but if more films like this are made then the morale of our armed forces will go down---they will feel backstabbed by the very people they are supposed to defend . If those people themselves support films which show Indian army in a bad light , then why should armed forces defend their lives ?? And if we flock to the theaters to watch such films and help the movie makers make more money then the movie makers will be tempted to make more such films . Don't go to see ' what is anti national in the film' . Not recommended .

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:05 am

An atmosphere of vegetarianism has made Indians weak and effeminate and ready to get themselves trampled upon by anyone who has the chutzpah to do so.

Is it your view that eating meat makes a man less effeminate and braver?

Is it your view that one's manhood depends on his killing and eating an animal?

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:19 am

goodcitizn wrote:An atmosphere of vegetarianism has made Indians weak and effeminate and ready to get themselves trampled upon by anyone who has the chutzpah to do so.

Is it your view that eating meat makes a man less effeminate and braver?

Is it your view that one's manhood depends on his killing and eating an animal?
I was watching a video where SG was explaining to a doctor how whatever non-cruel methods one can use to kill an animal the animal goes thru severe psychological and physiological changes in its body/system which causes some major adverse effects which can contribute to the psychological imbalances in who consume that meat. He was also explaining how major % of mental illnesses in US are due to eating such meat.

Imagine, at a conference room and tell a the attendees that they are going to be killed at end of the day either slowly or instantly. What would be the mental/physiological  condition one would go thru and most animals would go thru the same if they are in the line up at slaughter houses..

Generally the argument is one needs meat protein to be aggressive or strength which is a myth. You can get more than enough protein in veg diet. Meat protein is not needed. It may be needed where you have scarcity of food/vegetation like Mongolia/Ladak/Tibet.


'Kollanai Pulaal Unnanai Ulaghathhu Ella Uyuirum Thozhum' 

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:29 am

FluteHolder wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:An atmosphere of vegetarianism has made Indians weak and effeminate and ready to get themselves trampled upon by anyone who has the chutzpah to do so.

Is it your view that eating meat makes a man less effeminate and braver?

Is it your view that one's manhood depends on his killing and eating an animal?
I was watching a video where SG was explaining to a doctor how whatever non-cruel methods one can use to kill an animal the animal goes thru severe psychological and physiological changes in its body/system which causes some major adverse effects which can contribute to the psychological imbalances in who consume that meat. He was also explaining how major % of mental illnesses in US are due to eating such meat.

Imagine, at a conference room and tell a the attendees that they are going to be killed at end of the day either slowly or instantly. What would be the mental/physiological  condition one would go thru and most animals would go thru the same if they are in the line up at slaughter houses..

Generally the argument is one needs meat protein to be aggressive or strength which is a myth. You can get more than enough protein in veg diet. Meat protein is not needed. It may be needed where you have scarcity of food/vegetation like Mongolia/Ladak/Tibet.


'Kollanai Pulaal Unnanai Ulaghathhu Ella Uyuirum Thozhum' 

I don't buy this argument. So long as the meat is safe to eat (not rotten) it matters little how traumatic the butchering was. I don't see the relevance to mental illness here.

My only beef (no pun intended) is with the comment that vegetarians are effeminate and weak. I presume Ashdoc's contention is only confined to humans, not to elephants or mountain gorillas.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:57 am

"n other countries such a portrayal of the forces that defend the nation as villains would have been instantly clamped down upon . "

Not true.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:36 am

I don't buy this argument. So long as the meat is safe to eat (not rotten) it matters little how traumatic the butchering was. I don't see the relevance to mental illness here.
>>>>
http://www.ishafoundation.org/us/webstream/live.php

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:16 am

FluteHolder wrote:I don't buy this argument. So long as the meat is safe to eat (not rotten) it matters little how traumatic the butchering was. I don't see the relevance to mental illness here.
>>>>
http://www.ishafoundation.org/us/webstream/live.php

With all due respect to your faith in Sadhguru, I don't see any scientific correlation between eating meat (howsoever traumatized the animal was during butchering) and mental illness as a result of its consumption.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:22 am

goodcitizn wrote:
FluteHolder wrote:I don't buy this argument. So long as the meat is safe to eat (not rotten) it matters little how traumatic the butchering was. I don't see the relevance to mental illness here.
>>>>
http://www.ishafoundation.org/us/webstream/live.php

With all due respect to your faith in Sadhguru, I don't see any scientific correlation between eating meat (howsoever traumatized the animal was during butchering) and mental illness as a result of its consumption.
IT is not on faith. It is based on actual facts/test results he claims. When commerce/$ decides on what ppl should eat, anything which affects the $ will not be welcomed so easily.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by garam_kuta on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:59 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
FluteHolder wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:An atmosphere of vegetarianism has made Indians weak and effeminate and ready to get themselves trampled upon by anyone who has the chutzpah to do so.

Is it your view that eating meat makes a man less effeminate and braver?

Is it your view that one's manhood depends on his killing and eating an animal?
I was watching a video where SG was explaining to a doctor how whatever non-cruel methods one can use to kill an animal [b]the animal goes thru severe psychological and physiological changes in its body/system which causes some major adverse effects which can contribute to the psychological imbalances in who consume that meat. He was also explaining how major % of mental illnesses in US are due to eating such meat[/b].

Imagine, at a conference room and tell a the attendees that they are going to be killed at end of the day either slowly or instantly. What would be the mental/physiological  condition one would go thru and most animals would go thru the same if they are in the line up at slaughter houses..

Generally the argument is one needs meat protein to be aggressive or strength which is a myth. You can get more than enough protein in veg diet. Meat protein is not needed. It may be needed where you have scarcity of food/vegetation like Mongolia/Ladak/Tibet.


'Kollanai Pulaal Unnanai Ulaghathhu Ella Uyuirum Thozhum' 

I don't buy this argument. So long as the meat is safe to eat (not rotten) it matters little how traumatic the butchering was. I don't see the relevance to mental illness here.

My only beef (no pun intended) is with the comment that vegetarians are effeminate and weak. I presume Ashdoc's contention is only confined to humans, not to elephants or mountain gorillas.

..............the animal goes thru severe psychological and physiological changes in its body/system which causes some major adverse effects which can contribute to the psychological imbalances in who consume that meat...............
does this exclude fish items particularly the raw fish ones like sushi, sashami etc.,?

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:42 pm

garam_kuta wrote:
does this exclude fish items particularly the raw fish ones like sushi, sashami etc.,?
>>
Not sure. May be we should talk to/like fish Smile
SG claims that 200 pounds of meat an average american eats per year and if one can reduce it to 50 pounds, it would reduce some chronic ailments (cultivated not pathological). He says those who have got treated by his food/yoga regimen got rid of ailments.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:50 pm

FluteHolder wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
does this exclude fish items particularly the raw fish ones like sushi, sashami etc.,?
>>
Not sure. May be we should talk to/like fish Smile
SG claims that 200 pounds of meat an average american eats per year and if one can reduce it to 50 pounds, it would reduce some chronic ailments (cultivated not pathological). He says those who have got treated by his food/yoga regimen got rid of ailments.

I can understand how certain fatty meats can affect the human body. But for him to say that traumatically butchered animals cause mental illness is a lot of baloney (no pun intended).Laughing

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:55 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
FluteHolder wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
does this exclude fish items particularly the raw fish ones like sushi, sashami etc.,?
>>
Not sure. May be we should talk to/like fish Smile
SG claims that 200 pounds of meat an average american eats per year and if one can reduce it to 50 pounds, it would reduce some chronic ailments (cultivated not pathological). He says those who have got treated by his food/yoga regimen got rid of ailments.

I can understand how certain fatty meats can affect the human body. But for him to say that traumatically butchered animals cause mental illness is a lot of baloney (no pun intended).Laughing
I know you would not accept it. If some one preferably with 'vellai thol' and  with 'vellai kottu' potu with a controlled study paid by medical company you would believe it and buy the shares in an IPO Smile

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:09 pm

FluteHolder wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
FluteHolder wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
does this exclude fish items particularly the raw fish ones like sushi, sashami etc.,?
>>
Not sure. May be we should talk to/like fish Smile
SG claims that 200 pounds of meat an average american eats per year and if one can reduce it to 50 pounds, it would reduce some chronic ailments (cultivated not pathological). He says those who have got treated by his food/yoga regimen got rid of ailments.

I can understand how certain fatty meats can affect the human body. But for him to say that traumatically butchered animals cause mental illness is a lot of baloney (no pun intended).Laughing
I know you would not accept it. If some one preferably with 'vellai thol' and  with 'vellai kottu' potu with a controlled study paid by medical company you would believe it and buy the shares in an IPO Smile

It has nothing to do with vellai, karuppu or sivappu thOl. I want to know the kind of weed your Sadhguru has been religiously puffing.

As an aside, with Thanksgiving approaching, over 45 million turkeys will be slaughtered. So all the gobblers of the gobblers are about to become wackos as per Jaggi.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by garam_kuta on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:22 pm

FluteHolder wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
FluteHolder wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
does this exclude fish items particularly the raw fish ones like sushi, sashami etc.,?
>>
Not sure. May be we should talk to/like fish Smile
SG claims that 200 pounds of meat an average american eats per year and if one can reduce it to 50 pounds, it would reduce some chronic ailments (cultivated not pathological). He says those who have got treated by his food/yoga regimen got rid of ailments.

I can understand how certain fatty meats can affect the human body. But for him to say that traumatically butchered animals cause mental illness is a lot of baloney (no pun intended).Laughing
I know you would not accept it. If some one preferably with 'vellai thol' and  with 'vellai kottu' potu with a controlled study paid by medical company you would believe it and buy the shares in an IPO Smile

yeah! clearly it's time someone did fMRI on those that are sensitized to slaughter before it's done, and also look for PTSD in them later!

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:02 pm

garam_kuta wrote:

yeah! clearly it's time someone did fMRI on those that are sensitized to slaughter before it's done, and also look for PTSD in them later!
Did some reading on FMRI and it is interesting..

I was thinking along the lines of the discussion and it will be interesting to note or analyse if any data available on who does most horrible crimes/killings whether those who eat meat or vegetarians. For example who does the beheadings and who eat (halal ? while the animal is killed while it is  fully conscious and aware ) Vs non-halal meat eaters Vs vegetarians? 

May be if we have access to Crime/horrible murder database, one can analyse on this.

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by ashdoc on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:04 pm

goodcitizn wrote:An atmosphere of vegetarianism has made Indians weak and effeminate and ready to get themselves trampled upon by anyone who has the chutzpah to do so.

Is it your view that eating meat makes a man less effeminate and braver?

Is it your view that one's manhood depends on his killing and eating an animal?
i am not talking about an individual here . i am talking about whole society .

generally a society that is vegetarian is bent towards pacifism . vegetarians cannot stand the sight of blood . under these circumstances , they will not be able to do bloodshed when the need to do that comes .

and the need to do that will come regularly in india's neighbourhood---for we have some powerful internal rebellions and also powerful external enemies .

generally i have seen that vegetarian communities dont join the armed forces . there are very few gujaratis/marwadis/jains in indian armed forces . under these circumstances , if everybody turns vegetarian , then who will fight to protect the nation's interests when that is necessary ??


Last edited by ashdoc on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by ashdoc on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:11 pm

FluteHolder wrote: 


Generally the argument is one needs meat protein to be aggressive or strength which is a myth. 
i am not talking about protein . i am talking about being pacific by nature due to over concern about animals . 

vegetarians cannot stand bloodletting and heir refusal to shed blood makes them extremely sensitive to shedding of blood when the time to do that occurs .

vegetarians lack killer instinct .

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Re: Ashdoc's movie review---Haider

Post by FluteHolder on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:33 am

All this goes back to the classification of Varnas/Men based on their qualities and their dominant nature (esp Satvic/rajasic/tamasic) and their classifcation on brahmanic/shathriya/vaishya/sudra qualities/nature. For a kingdom/govt to function effectively these classifications were needed though based on their nature of men but not on their birth. A good minister need not be a good warrior.

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