India is Losing Kashmir

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India is Losing Kashmir

Post by confuzzled dude on Sun May 08, 2016 2:57 pm

Kashmir has been simmering in decades of conflict since the partition of the Indian subcontinent in 1947. The violence reached its peak in the 1980s and ‘90s, when the Pakistan-backed Kashmiri insurgency was at its strongest. By the early 2000s, however, the violence seemed to have abated, and there was hope for a peaceful settlement of the issue. But now, optimism for such a peaceful settlement is dwindling. As Kashmir has seen a resurgence in violence, public support for the insurgency also seems to be increasing. India is losing whatever support it had among the general Kashmiri public, and this trend will continue unless it brings about a radical change in its Kashmir policy.
These kinds of reprehensible policies that the Indian establishment says are important to maintain peace in Kashmir have produced a disaffected Kashmiri population. And although it may appear to have strengthened its hold, India is losing popular support in Kashmir by sticking to its policy of focusing solely on economic development while maintaining the security status quo. In a vivid illustration of the problem, just a day after Indian Prime Minister Modi visited Kashmir last November and unveiled a $12 billion economic development package for the state, a 22-year-old Kashmiri man, Gowhar Nazir Dar, was killed by the Central Reserve Police Force. The resulting demonstrations carried on for days, with protesters across Kashmir combining to outnumber the attendees of the rally where Modi spoke.

At a time when the Islamic State is threatening to expand into Kashmir ­– even though it has found no buyers there for its message, thus far – there still remains a chance that the angry and agitated people who turn out in huge numbers at militant funerals could fall prey to its propaganda in order to fight the Indian establishment. For India to end this long quagmire of armed conflict with Kashmiris, it must shift away from its current policy and allow political space for Kashmiris. It should repeal its draconian laws like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act and the Public Safety Act and punish soldiers involved in human rights violations. And, finally, India should work with Kashmiris and Pakistan alike to reach a viable solution so that peace may prevail. But until India realizes the damage it has done, the streets of Kashmir will reverberate with chants in support of its supposed martyrs, much like they did during the funeral procession of Abu Qasim.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/05/india-is-losing-kashmir/

Like I said before, I, for the life of me, don't understand why India puts up with stupid people and stupid state. Let them secede, these idiots have been a drag on India forever.

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by garam_kuta on Sun May 08, 2016 3:40 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kashmir has been simmering in decades of conflict since the partition of the Indian subcontinent in 1947. The violence reached its peak in the 1980s and ‘90s, when the Pakistan-backed Kashmiri insurgency was at its strongest. By the early 2000s, however, the violence seemed to have abated, and there was hope for a peaceful settlement of the issue. But now, optimism for such a peaceful settlement is dwindling. As Kashmir has seen a resurgence in violence, public support for the insurgency also seems to be increasing. India is losing whatever support it had among the general Kashmiri public, and this trend will continue unless it brings about a radical change in its Kashmir policy.
These kinds of reprehensible policies that the Indian establishment says are important to maintain peace in Kashmir have produced a disaffected Kashmiri population. And although it may appear to have strengthened its hold, India is losing popular support in Kashmir by sticking to its policy of focusing solely on economic development while maintaining the security status quo. In a vivid illustration of the problem, just a day after Indian Prime Minister Modi visited Kashmir last November and unveiled a $12 billion economic development package for the state, a 22-year-old Kashmiri man, Gowhar Nazir Dar, was killed by the Central Reserve Police Force. The resulting demonstrations carried on for days, with protesters across Kashmir combining to outnumber the attendees of the rally where Modi spoke.

At a time when the Islamic State is threatening to expand into Kashmir ­– even though it has found no buyers there for its message, thus far – there still remains a chance that the angry and agitated people who turn out in huge numbers at militant funerals could fall prey to its propaganda in order to fight the Indian establishment. For India to end this long quagmire of armed conflict with Kashmiris, it must shift away from its current policy and allow political space for Kashmiris. It should repeal its draconian laws like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act and the Public Safety Act and punish soldiers involved in human rights violations. And, finally, India should work with Kashmiris and Pakistan alike to reach a viable solution so that peace may prevail. But until India realizes the damage it has done, the streets of Kashmir will reverberate with chants in support of its supposed martyrs, much like they did during the funeral procession of Abu Qasim.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/05/india-is-losing-kashmir/

Like I said before, I, for the life of me, don't understand why India puts up with stupid people and stupid state. Let them secede, these idiots have been a drag on India forever.

I always wondered on the 'justification' of the budget and the disproportionately spent taxpayers money on this. sales pitch probably was the sentimentality of nehru family's roots there, but strategically the inner agenda originally must have been to have a buffer for collateral damages.

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by confuzzled dude on Sun May 08, 2016 4:05 pm

garam_kuta wrote:
I always wondered on the 'justification' of the budget and the disproportionately spent taxpayers money on this. sales pitch probably was the sentimentality of nehru family's roots there, but strategically the inner agenda originally must have been to have a buffer for collateral damages.
Bingo..
These are telling facts. The whining and whimpering of the first family notwithstanding, Jammu and Kashmir is the most pampered state in India.

Since the beginning of militancy in 1990, the state has managed to get the lion's share of Central resources - over Rs 35,571.3 crore in grants and assistance.

In 2001-2, for instance, Jammu and Kashmir got Rs 4,577 crore from the Centre or over 10 per cent of the assistance to states. It has got more than any other state every year since 1995. Add to this projects in the state worth over Rs 25,000 crore being funded by the Centre.

A Kashmiri gets eight times more money from the Centre than citizens from other states. While per capita Central assistance to other states moved from Rs 576.24 in 1992-93 to Rs 1,137 in 2000-1, that of the Kashmiri spiralled from Rs 3,197 to Rs 8,092.

To get a perspective, translate the numbers: if this cash, managed by the state Government, were to be despatched by money order, each Kashmiri family (with five members on an average) would get Rs 40,460 every year.

For all that talk of autonomy or azadi, the fact is that Jammu and Kashmir cannot sustain itself without the Centre's support. In 2001-2, the state spent Rs 7,516.6 crore of which Rs 4,577 crore-or 60 paise of every rupee spent-came from the Centre.

The state's non-development expenditure was Rs 2,829 crore including a salary bill of Rs 1,193 crore while its own revenues were barely Rs 1,095 crore. The state could not have paid even the wages of its employees without the Centre's help.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jammu-and-kashmir-most-pampered-state-in-india/1/218463.html

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by ashdoc on Sun May 08, 2016 5:20 pm

consider the case of bangladesh.before it was created ie when it was east pakistan the border with it was relatively well guarded compared to at least today.

with the creation of bangladesh that country became a supposed 'friend' and the border with it began to be neglected. today only 17000 BSF personnel guard the border roughly ,actually slightly less than half the sanctioned force of 35000.actually even 35000 is not enough.

this has allowed massive amount of so called refugees to enter the country at will. there is hardly any army to guard that boundary.
the BSF have been given orders to not shoot at anybody on this border as bangladeshis are our ' friends '.
so they are helpless in stopping the influx of ' refugees'. if they try to stop them they are physically attacked and mauled and with the order not to shoot at the ' refugees ' are unable to even protect themselves.

this has allowed practically unchecked influx of bangladeshis into india.
the bordering districts of bengal have shown large increases of muslim population over the years. obviously this has been encouraged......massively so by the communist govt of west bengal to increase what it sees as a captive vote bank....though that perception has been belied in the current elections.

in assam it has been worse as here the demography has been completely changed across the state. an estimated 40% of the population is now muslim in assam. it is not impossible that the population will become majority muslim in assam in the future.this has been encouraged by both the congress and the asom gana parishad, both accusing the other of encouraging bangladeshis to come in the state and then doing exactly that when they come to power.

worse , over the years the bangladeshis that have come in recent years have been increasingly radicalised over the years and are clearly implicated in numerous acts of terrorism in india. radical outfits like HUJI have sown terror in india.

yet nothing at all is being done to stop this by the central govt.the bangladeshis in india are estimated to be some 40 million.

which brings me to the question of pakistan.

let us suppose the kashmir problem is solved to both sides satisfaction.

tensions along the border cease.

immediately our govt will declare pak to be our ' friend '.pseudointellectuals like mahesh bhatt will demand ' greater people to people interaction across the border ' and all that stuff.

the army, which at the moment maintains a strict vigil across the border wiil over the years be asked to relax it, especially if for several years there is no exchange of firing on the border. the border could be more and more open like that of bangladesh.

this will only allow the pakistanis to arrive in the numbers to escape the drudgery of extreme poverty in pakistan and take advantage of indias economic success. this obviously will be encouraged by our ' secular ' politicians to increase their vote bank. over the years these people will be given voter icards and will be 'legalised' to make them vote for pseudosecular parties just like bangladeshis have been similarly ' legalised'.

worse, these pakis will be influenced by crazed talibani ideas much more than bangladeshis and try to force their austere version of islam in the areas they settle in. they will be inculcated with ideas of hatred to hindus much more than the bangladeshis are . communal riots and bomb blasts will be a natural corrolary to all this. these people will be far more tougher than hindus and hindus will be forced go away and settle in other areas making large areas ' hindu free '. this can especially occur in bordering states like punjab rajasthan and gujrat.

all under the benign eye of the pseudoscular establishment., of course.

thus we might see a whole new picture in the country.

under these circumstances isnt it better that tensions with pak should be a permanent state of affairs ?

to be sure there will be a constant tension on the border. acts of terrorism will occur. the military budget will be kept high draining precious resources.

but surely that is better than large areas of the country becoming muslim dominated.

in fact the tensions will force us to remain on guard to protect india.otherwise it is our practise to let down our guard at the slightest hint of peace while others dont.

with peace we might reduce our miltary capabilities while pak may not do so,our politicoes will go to sleep until pak feels confident of taking on india and suddenly ' wakes ' them from their slumber.

already china has done this once, i need not remind you.

in fact tensions will force us to remain on the alert to protect ourselves. 

otherwise our attitude is to relax and do nothing until it is too late.

for a nation of ' sleepers ' on national security issues it is better that constant tensions keep us burning the midnight oil.

under these circumstances i want to advance my own theory-- tensions with pakistan should be a permanent state of affairs .


---ashdoc

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by confuzzled dude on Sun May 08, 2016 7:49 pm

Ashdoc -

Your argument is based on wrong premise. You're assertion that folks who cross border are radicalized has no legs. I don't buy into your other point, India turning complacent after letting Kashmir go. Also, aren't you contradicting yourself? On one hand you're saying India will go into sleep, OTOH you're suggesting that this move will help Pak & China strengthen their footing. If the latter were true, wouldn't that be a good reason for India to continue to strengthen & spend to protect its borders? I'd rather have taxpayers monies invested on the folks that are wiling to be a part of India than the ones that don't.

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by confuzzled dude on Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:20 pm

Years ago, Pakistan pushed thousands of militants across the border as a proxy army to wreak havoc in the Indian-controlled parts of Kashmir. Now, the resistance inside the Indian areas is overwhelmingly homegrown.

The conflict today is probably driven less by geopolitics than by internal Indian politics, which have increasingly taken an anti-Muslim direction. Most of the fighters are young men like Sameer Tiger from quiet brick-walled villages like Qasbayar, who draw support from a population deeply resentful of India’s governing party and years of occupation.
“This is what’s different,’’ said Siddiq Wahid, a Kashmiri historian who earned his Ph.D from Harvard. “Before, in the 1990s, many Kashmiris felt we can negotiate this, we can talk.’’

“But nobody wants to be part of India now,” he said. “Every Kashmiri is resisting today, in different ways.’’
“Let’s be realistic: India’s never going to give up this land,” said one young Kashmiri who asked that his identity not be revealed because he could be labeled a collaborator.

“I can say such things in my house. But as soon as I step outside, even into my own street, I can’t say that. It has to be ‘Azadi! Azadi! Azadi!’ ” he said, using the word for freedom. “It’s like you have to be two different people, all the time.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/world/asia/kashmir-war-india-pakistan.html

I think it is high time India let Kashmir go Pak way i.e. let them have the freedom they are longing for; If overwhelming majority of Kashmir valley wants Azadi, why not listen? putting an end to this issue  once and for all will only expedite India's progress.

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by Ponniyin Selvan on Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:34 pm

What Ashdoc says is true.

Current Hindi colonial Indian state wants permanent tensions with Pakistan and it is the same case with Pakistan. Both of them are artificially created countries with many diverse groups of people with one dominant group trying to dictate terms for others. 

If the current Hindi colonial India lets go of Kashmir, the same can happen with Tamilnadu, Karnataka, Bengal, Manipur and so on. You need a common enemy to create some sort of artificial unity. But not sure, how long that story is going to work.

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka on Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:51 pm

Well, if Kashmir is handed on a platter to Pakis, Indian union will start disintegrating. Tamils, Assamese, Telugus, Kannadigas, Goans, Bengalis, Odiyas, Marathas, etc., etc., will start separatist movements. The only India that will be left becomes quite BIMARU.

Here is a more gentle approach - get BIMARUs out of ignorance and inculcate progressive thinking. Provide free education to Muslim girls and create employment opportunities (an educated and employed Muslim woman will become the biggest enemy of Mullahs). Muslim women will then lead the debate on uniform civil code...... Meanwhile, S Arabia will go back to smelling camels and wiping their butts with pebbles. They won't have the financial clout to support monomania elsewhere. PakiSatan will disintegrate into Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Pushtoonistan, etc. Some will convert into other religions and the rest will fight with each other.......

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by Ponniyin Selvan on Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:10 pm

Better approach is to be more like European Union, let go of Hindi colonialism and form a federal union with right to secede or join.

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by confuzzled dude on Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:58 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Well, if Kashmir is handed on a platter to Pakis, Indian union will start disintegrating. Tamils, Assamese, Telugus, Kannadigas, Goans, Bengalis, Odiyas, Marathas, etc., etc., will start separatist movements. The only India that will be left becomes quite BIMARU.

Here is a more gentle approach - get BIMARUs out of ignorance and inculcate progressive thinking. Provide free education to Muslim girls and create employment opportunities (an educated and employed Muslim woman will become the biggest enemy of Mullahs). Muslim women will then lead the debate on uniform civil code...... Meanwhile, S Arabia will go back to smelling camels and wiping their butts with pebbles. They won't have the financial clout to support monomania elsewhere. PakiSatan will disintegrate into Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Pushtoonistan, etc. Some will convert into other religions and the rest will fight with each other.......
If that is the fear then India doesn't deserve to be an union, does it?

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Re: India is Losing Kashmir

Post by Ponniyin Selvan on Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:18 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Well, if Kashmir is handed on a platter to Pakis, Indian union will start disintegrating. Tamils, Assamese, Telugus, Kannadigas, Goans, Bengalis, Odiyas, Marathas, etc., etc., will start separatist movements. The only India that will be left becomes quite BIMARU.

Here is a more gentle approach - get BIMARUs out of ignorance and inculcate progressive thinking. Provide free education to Muslim girls and create employment opportunities (an educated and employed Muslim woman will become the biggest enemy of Mullahs). Muslim women will then lead the debate on uniform civil code...... Meanwhile, S Arabia will go back to smelling camels and wiping their butts with pebbles. They won't have the financial clout to support monomania elsewhere. PakiSatan will disintegrate into Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Pushtoonistan, etc. Some will convert into other religions and the rest will fight with each other.......
If that is the fear then India doesn't deserve to be an union, does it?

Yes, that's right. Current Hindi colonial India does not deserve to be an union.

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