Caste from the beginning

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Caste from the beginning

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:25 am

Rather coincidentally, at the dawn of civilization, as people gathered and lived in clans or tribes (Visha), they collectively - irrespective of their undertakings within Visha (such as in agriculture, woodworking, trade and other vocations) - came to be known as the Vaishya (meaning - belonging to Visha) --- Ref. (1).

To meet the liturgical needs of the society, the Vaishya - from among themselves - would select, on the basis of skills in elocution, the Brahmins (students or orators of the Vedas - compiled knowledge). Similarly, for administrative purposes, Vaishya with qualities of leadership would be selected as Kshatriya (sovereign, tribal chieftain, administrator of Kshatar - dominion or tribal area / town). Furthermore, a Visha (tribe) - in addition to having the Vaishyas (including Brahmins, Kshatriya, cowherders and woodworkers etc.) - also embodied people known as Shudra (meaning - not of tribe) representing all the newcomers (immigrants) to that particular tribe. They included persons from other tribes (such as the vanquished foes and the migrants) and the children born out of inter-tribal unions. Being somewhat new into that tribe and encountering unfamiliar rules, regulations and customs, a Shudra was limited in his vocational options and was generally relegated to providing service and assistance to members of the host tribe. But over time, like a modern day immigrant, he would surpass the tribal or social barriers so as to fully assimilate in that society and pursue other professions. Thus, all the responsibilities related to a Visha could be grouped into four sub-categories: Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra; the duties and skills involved with each of them are indicated in the following Sections.

Note also that, in old times, there was no concept of money or cash. People produced things and bartered (traded) them for other goods and services. A producer or trader belonging to Vaishya would include people such as farmer producing grains and milk etc., blacksmith (Lohar) making iron implements, leather-worker (CharmarorChamar,charmmeaning leather) manufacturing shoes, and so on. Thus, for subsistence, a Brahmin would do worship (puja) in a 'Vaishya' farmer's house and get grains and milk in return. Similarly, aChamarwould exchange shoes for food items from a farmer, iron implements from aLohar, and so on. Similarly, a 'Shudra' servant might work or help in a farmer's field for food in return. If he were to help aLohar, thenLoharwould provide him with food items. Moreover, all these people would give a share of their goods (produce) and services to the Kshatriya (tribal chief) for administration of Visha (tribe or society). Society was basically managed through bartering system.

Thus caste, which originally during the Vedic times had only occupational connotations and was not hereditary (based on birth) as indicated above, later (during last few millenniums) became stratified within the families merely as a means to achieve vocational advantage (specialization) socially, and nothing more. But now, in less than hundred years (thanks to the Govt. quotas and benefits based on caste in education and jobs etc.), caste has become totally territorial and is being guarded by its adherents (basically quota / reservations beneficiaries) quite militantly.

As for the issues related to untouchability, there are two important aspects to untouchability -- poverty and lowly tasks  (Ref. 2).

People (especially the “untouchables”) end up being excluded from the social mainstream because of their poor economic condition. The best solution to this problem is to help poor people (including by Govt.) according to their economic condition (poverty line or limit) rather than their caste (ancestors’ occupation) or religion (where, how and to whom people pray).

Moreover, the work performed by poor people (including the untouchables), even though very important to society, is usually manual and menial and it is considered by others as lowly. People, usually the well-to-do, try to shy away from such lowly work and also shun those doing it. The effective solution to this problem is to bring a change in the attitude of people so that they don’t mind undertaking manual and menial tasks and don’t shun the workers engaged in such tasks.

Thus there is a need for important people in society, including ministers, politicians, leaders, officials etc., to carry out public demonstrations (in front of the media) where they engage in cleaning the public toilets and washrooms and sweeping the roads and streets. This will quickly get rid of the taboos about manual and menial work and end discrimination according to occupations.

References

(1)  "Vedic vocations (Hindu castes) werenot related to heredity (birth)" -- http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/_caste.html

(2)  "Some questions (comments) related to Hindu caste system" (Appendix) -- http://creative.sulekha.com/some-questions-comments-related-to-hindu-caste-system_595419_blog

: Subhash C. Sharma

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Re: Caste from the beginning

Post by TruthSeeker on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:07 pm

Why dwell on past, Seva ji?

Fkk past.

What is caste "today" ?

Analyze it.

Regards,
TS.

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Casteism in Hinduism makes me Sick!

Post by TruthSeeker on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:14 pm

Folks analyze past, scriptures, give reasons and logic on caste.

And all that which comes to my mind is - VERY harsh -

Spit on the face of folks who believe in caste system today.

I cannot perceive, think, or imagine, when people talk of Iyers and Iyerngers in South, or Yadav or Verma or Sharma (or whatever castes are considered higher in North).

Fkk U.

Men or Women who think and believe that they are born in some so-called-higher-caste are the TRUE low caste of Hinduism,

I can prove it to them, that they are not only useless in their thinking, but worthless.

I always have, and will continue to have such hatred to such folks that I choose to spit on their face.

Caste System in Hinduism is such a SHAME!

Regards,
TS.

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Re: Caste from the beginning

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:58 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:Why dwell on past, Seva ji?

Fkk past.

What is caste "today" ?

Analyze it.

Regards,
TS.
TS, in this case it is necessary to understand caste from all angles, including its origins, to resolve various problems and issues related to caste -- https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/caste-from-beginning-dr-subhash-c-sharma?articleId=6176793144546332672

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Re: Caste from the beginning

Post by Hellsangel on Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:38 pm

Oy vey!

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Re: Caste from the beginning

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:17 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
TruthSeeker wrote:Why dwell on past, Seva ji?

Fkk past.

What is caste "today" ?

Analyze it.

Regards,
TS.
TS, in this case it is necessary to understand caste from all angles, including its origins, to resolve various problems and issues related to caste --   https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/caste-from-beginning-dr-subhash-c-sharma?articleId=6176793144546332672
There is much misinformation currently about caste and caste system in the past which is misused by people and politicians these days to forward their own personal agendas, such as people demanding and receiving undue quotas and benefits in the name of caste from Govt. and the politicians and political parties creating and serving unnecessary vote banks based on caste for the sake of gaining votes in elections. This not only represents the current baseless exploitation of caste and caste system, as indicated in "Macaulay report refutes the caste basis for quotas" (http://Creative.Sulekha.Com/Macaulay-Report-Refutes-The-Caste-Basis-For-Quotas_591797_blog), but also appears to prolong and strengthen caste and caste system unnecessarily, as explained in “The need for Obamaesque approach to remove caste from education and job quotas(https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/need-obamaesque-approach-remove-caste-from-education-job-sharma). Naturally, it’s important to understand caste and caste system properly and not use any means, even unintentionally (including the caste based quotas and benefits in education and jobs etc.), which might prolong and strengthen caste and caste system in future.

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Re: Caste from the beginning

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