The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Rashmun on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:06 am

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/links/chessStory.html

Rashmun

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:58 am

I've heard this story before. It's a story about mathematics and about the power of exponentiation. But there's nothing here about chess, chess pieces, or chess moves. So it doesn't even qualify as a good apocryphal story about the invention of chess. So in the immortal words of Linus Pauling, this is a story that's 'not even wrong'.
avatar
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14111
Join date : 2011-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:36 am

I have heard this story (the brahmin inventor of chess asking the king for reward in rice grains on 64 squares of chessboard, each time doubling the number of rice grains) many times since my childhood, so the story probably is true. Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Incidentally, the original name for chess in Sanskrit was Chaturanga, meaning perhaps the 4-sided battlefield (as the chessboard), or even as 4-divisions (or parts) with each opposing army formation having two flanks (protecting the respective king on each side). Btw, unlike the modern / western chess,  in the original (Indian) chess there is no castling move and also no Queen, which in Indian chess is called "Senapati" (General) or "vazir" (minister, in the Farsi version). There are a few other small variations too (with pawns in the Indian version never moving two places initially, ...).
avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:35 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote: Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Wrong.
avatar
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14111
Join date : 2011-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:43 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Wrong.
of course, I forgot to add all the grains left on the squares, 1 + 2 + 4 +  ... + 2**63.
avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Rashmun on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:04 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:I have heard this story (the brahmin inventor of chess asking the king for reward in rice grains on 64 squares of chessboard, each time doubling the number of rice grains) many times since my childhood, so the story probably is true. Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Incidentally, the original name for chess in Sanskrit was Chaturanga, meaning perhaps the 4-sided battlefield (as the chessboard), or even as 4-divisions (or parts) with each opposing army formation having two flanks (protecting the respective king on each side). Btw, unlike the modern / western chess,  in the original (Indian) chess there is no castling move and also no Queen, which in Indian chess is called "Senapati" (General) or "vazir" (minister, in the Farsi version). There are a few other small variations too (with pawns in the Indian version never moving two places initially, ...).

Seva just because you heard the story many times does not mean the story is true. With respect to Indian chess vs International chess, there are a few other differences. Indian chess does not have the move/rule known as en passant. Also, if a pawn reaches the other side of the board it always becomes a queen in international chess. But in Indian chess only the pawn before a king or queen becomes a queen if it reaches the other end of the board. A pawn before a rook would become a rook if it reaches the end of the board. ditto for a pawn before a bishop and before a knight. Finally, in international chess a pawn can move either one or two places in its first move (and one place in subsequent moves). But in Indian chess it can move only one place in any move including the first move.


Last edited by Rashmun on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rashmun

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Rashmun on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:04 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I've heard this story before. It's a story about mathematics and about the power of exponentiation. But there's nothing here about chess, chess pieces, or chess moves. So it doesn't even qualify as a good apocryphal story about the invention of chess. So in the immortal words of Linus Pauling, this is a story that's 'not even wrong'.

true.

Rashmun

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:34 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:I have heard this story (the brahmin inventor of chess asking the king for reward in rice grains on 64 squares of chessboard, each time doubling the number of rice grains) many times since my childhood, so the story probably is true. Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Incidentally, the original name for chess in Sanskrit was Chaturanga, meaning perhaps the 4-sided battlefield (as the chessboard), or even as 4-divisions (or parts) with each opposing army formation having two flanks (protecting the respective king on each side). Btw, unlike the modern / western chess,  in the original (Indian) chess there is no castling move and also no Queen, which in Indian chess is called "Senapati" (General) or "vazir" (minister, in the Farsi version). There are a few other small variations too (with pawns in the Indian version never moving two places initially, ...).

Seva just because you heard the story many times does not mean the story is true. With respect to Indian chess vs International chess, there are a few other differences. Indian chess does not have the move/rule known as en passant. Also, if a pawn reaches the other side of the board it always becomes a queen in international chess. But in Indian chess only the pawn before a king or queen becomes a queen if it reaches the other end of the board. A pawn before a rook would become a rook if it reaches the end of the board. ditto for a pawn before a bishop and before a knight. Finally, in international chess a pawn can move either one or two places in its first move (and one place in subsequent moves). But in Indian chess it can move only one place in any move including the first move.
Rashmun, the story about the inventor asking for payment / reward as number of grains going up exponentially probably is true, considering the type of intelligent game he came up with (he probably knew what to ask for).
As for the rules in the Indian chess which are different from the modern international play, I did not list them all (just one). You have correctly posted some of them above. if I remember correctly (from my days of playing Indian chess and the international chess), I think the placing of kings with respect to each other is different in Indian chess from international chess.
avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Rashmun on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:39 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:I have heard this story (the brahmin inventor of chess asking the king for reward in rice grains on 64 squares of chessboard, each time doubling the number of rice grains) many times since my childhood, so the story probably is true. Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Incidentally, the original name for chess in Sanskrit was Chaturanga, meaning perhaps the 4-sided battlefield (as the chessboard), or even as 4-divisions (or parts) with each opposing army formation having two flanks (protecting the respective king on each side). Btw, unlike the modern / western chess,  in the original (Indian) chess there is no castling move and also no Queen, which in Indian chess is called "Senapati" (General) or "vazir" (minister, in the Farsi version). There are a few other small variations too (with pawns in the Indian version never moving two places initially, ...).

Seva just because you heard the story many times does not mean the story is true. With respect to Indian chess vs International chess, there are a few other differences. Indian chess does not have the move/rule known as en passant. Also, if a pawn reaches the other side of the board it always becomes a queen in international chess. But in Indian chess only the pawn before a king or queen becomes a queen if it reaches the other end of the board. A pawn before a rook would become a rook if it reaches the end of the board. ditto for a pawn before a bishop and before a knight. Finally, in international chess a pawn can move either one or two places in its first move (and one place in subsequent moves). But in Indian chess it can move only one place in any move including the first move.
Rashmun, the story about the inventor asking for payment / reward as number of grains going up exponentially probably is true, considering the type of intelligent game he came up with (he probably knew what to ask for).
As for the rules in the Indian chess which are different from the modern international play, I did not list them all (just one). You have correctly posted some of them above. if I remember correctly (from my days of playing Indian chess and the international chess), I think the placing of kings with respect to each other is different in Indian chess from international chess.

no, the placing of kings is the same in indian and international chess. there is no proof of the fact that this guy invented chess. its just a story.

Rashmun

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:47 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:I have heard this story (the brahmin inventor of chess asking the king for reward in rice grains on 64 squares of chessboard, each time doubling the number of rice grains) many times since my childhood, so the story probably is true. Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Incidentally, the original name for chess in Sanskrit was Chaturanga, meaning perhaps the 4-sided battlefield (as the chessboard), or even as 4-divisions (or parts) with each opposing army formation having two flanks (protecting the respective king on each side). Btw, unlike the modern / western chess,  in the original (Indian) chess there is no castling move and also no Queen, which in Indian chess is called "Senapati" (General) or "vazir" (minister, in the Farsi version). There are a few other small variations too (with pawns in the Indian version never moving two places initially, ...).

Seva just because you heard the story many times does not mean the story is true. With respect to Indian chess vs International chess, there are a few other differences. Indian chess does not have the move/rule known as en passant. Also, if a pawn reaches the other side of the board it always becomes a queen in international chess. But in Indian chess only the pawn before a king or queen becomes a queen if it reaches the other end of the board. A pawn before a rook would become a rook if it reaches the end of the board. ditto for a pawn before a bishop and before a knight. Finally, in international chess a pawn can move either one or two places in its first move (and one place in subsequent moves). But in Indian chess it can move only one place in any move including the first move.
Rashmun, the story about the inventor asking for payment / reward as number of grains going up exponentially probably is true, considering the type of intelligent game he came up with (he probably knew what to ask for).
As for the rules in the Indian chess which are different from the modern international play, I did not list them all (just one). You have correctly posted some of them above. if I remember correctly (from my days of playing Indian chess and the international chess), I think the placing of kings with respect to each other is different in Indian chess from international chess.

no, the placing of kings is the same in indian and international chess. there is no proof of the fact that this guy invented chess. Its' just a story.
It may just be a story but it has been going around for a long time. I heard it first when I was in grade 4 or 5 and used to see my father playing (Indian) chess. That was 60 yrs. ago, so there must be something to it. As for placing of kings in Indian chess, I have to confirm it -- it has been a very long time since I played chess in Indian style.
avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:I have heard this story (the brahmin inventor of chess asking the king for reward in rice grains on 64 squares of chessboard, each time doubling the number of rice grains) many times since my childhood, so the story probably is true. Btw the total number of rice grains for the entire board is 2**63,

Incidentally, the original name for chess in Sanskrit was Chaturanga, meaning perhaps the 4-sided battlefield (as the chessboard), or even as 4-divisions (or parts) with each opposing army formation having two flanks (protecting the respective king on each side). Btw, unlike the modern / western chess,  in the original (Indian) chess there is no castling move and also no Queen, which in Indian chess is called "Senapati" (General) or "vazir" (minister, in the Farsi version). There are a few other small variations too (with pawns in the Indian version never moving two places initially, ...).

Seva just because you heard the story many times does not mean the story is true. With respect to Indian chess vs International chess, there are a few other differences. Indian chess does not have the move/rule known as en passant. Also, if a pawn reaches the other side of the board it always becomes a queen in international chess. But in Indian chess only the pawn before a king or queen becomes a queen if it reaches the other end of the board. A pawn before a rook would become a rook if it reaches the end of the board. ditto for a pawn before a bishop and before a knight. Finally, in international chess a pawn can move either one or two places in its first move (and one place in subsequent moves). But in Indian chess it can move only one place in any move including the first move.
Rashmun, the story about the inventor asking for payment / reward as number of grains going up exponentially probably is true, considering the type of intelligent game he came up with (he probably knew what to ask for).
As for the rules in the Indian chess which are different from the modern international play, I did not list them all (just one). You have correctly posted some of them above. if I remember correctly (from my days of playing Indian chess and the international chess), I think the placing of kings with respect to each other is different in Indian chess from international chess.

no, the placing of kings is the same in indian and international chess. there is no proof of the fact that this guy invented chess. Its' just a story.
It may just be a story but it has been going around for a long time. I heard it first when I was in grade 4 or 5 and used to see my father playing (Indian) chess. That was 60 yrs. ago, so there must be something to it. As for placing of kings in Indian chess, I have to confirm it -- it has been a very long time since I played chess in Indian style.
Here it is, the differences in Indian chess from International chess, in the following (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_chess).


  • The king is always placed to the right of the queen (as opposed to the left for Black).

  • When only the king and pawns are left in play, the opponent may not give check, but he can win by stalemate.

  • The two-step initial pawn move is absent in Indian chess; thus, en passant is also absent.

  • Normal castling with rook and king is absent. The king can make a knight's move once in a game, known as Indian castling.

  • On reaching the opposite end of the board, pawns promote to the piece of that square. If it promotes at the initial king's position, it promotes a queen.

  • Underpromotion is not permitted.

  • The queen can also make the knight's move in addition to the rook and bishop. It is thus more powerful than in the modern version.

  • The last piece remaining may not be captured.

  • The king may not move without being in check.

avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Rashmun on Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:13 pm

thanks seva

Rashmun

Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:49 am

Incidentally, the sum of the rice grains increasing progressively on the chessboard, starting with 1 (grain) on the first square and then doubling with each square till 64th square, might be the first / oldest practical example of geometric series,
1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + .... + 2**62 + 2**63.            (= 2**64 - 1)
avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:59 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Incidentally, the sum of the rice grains increasing progressively on the chessboard, starting with 1 (grain) on the first square and then doubling with each square till 64th square, might be the first / oldest practical example of geometric series,
1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + .... + 2**62 + 2**63.            (= 2**64 - 1)

Yes.
avatar
MaxEntropy_Man

Posts : 14111
Join date : 2011-04-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:17 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Incidentally, the sum of the rice grains increasing progressively on the chessboard, starting with 1 (grain) on the first square and then doubling with each square till 64th square, might be the first / oldest practical example of geometric series,
1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + .... + 2**62 + 2**63.            (= 2**64 - 1)

Yes.
it's so elegant and down-to-earth, starting with 1 (the first real number) and then multiplying progressively with a factor of just 2 (63 times).
avatar
Seva Lamberdar

Posts : 4774
Join date : 2012-11-29

View user profile https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

Back to top Go down

Re: The (apocryphal) story of how chess was invented

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum