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What is India's caste system?

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Vakavaka Pakapaka
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What is India's caste system? Empty What is India's caste system?

Post by confuzzled dude Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:53 pm

What is India's caste system? _88452111_indian_caste_624_v2
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35650616

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Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:30 pm

Looks like this BBC guy paid some money to the great-great-great-great-great grandson of Manu mian for the information that castes come from Brahma (of the Hindu trinity).

The four varnas were described in the Purusha sooktam (of Rg Veda).

........................
BrhaamanOsya mukhamaaseet
Baahoo raajanyah kritah
Uuru tadasya yadvaisyah
PadbhyAAgm suudrO ajaayata
.....................

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:26 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Looks like this BBC guy paid some money to the great-great-great-great-great grandson of Manu mian for the information that castes come from Brahma (of the Hindu trinity).

The four varnas were described in the Purusha sooktam (of Rg Veda).

........................
BrhaamanOsya mukhamaaseet
Baahoo raajanyah kritah
Uuru tadasya yadvaisyah
PadbhyAAgm suudrO ajaayata
.....................
Totally wrong representation (figure) above about "Purusha", because it is not in anyway according to hymn 10.90 in the Rig Veda (as stated below, Purusha Sukta). For example, where are a thousand heads, a thousand eyes and a thousand feet, etc. (including the Sun from the eyes and the Moon from the mind) in the above figure, as indicated in Purusha Sukta below.

Purusha Sukta (Rig Veda: 10.90)  :
  
1. A THOUSAND heads hath Puruṣa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet.
On every side pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide.
2 This Puruṣa is all that yet hath been and all that is to be;
The Lord of Immortality which waxes greater still by food.
3 So mighty is his greatness; yea, greater than this is Puruṣa.
All creatures are one-fourth of him, three-fourths eternal life in heaven.
4 With three-fourths Puruṣa went up: one-fourth of him again was here.
Thence he strode out to every side over what cats not and what cats.
5 From him Virāj was born; again Puruṣa from Virāj was born.
As soon as he was born he spread eastward and westward o’er the earth.
6 When Gods prepared the sacrifice with Puruṣa as their offering,
Its oil was spring, the holy gift was autumn; summer was the wood.
7 They balmed as victim on the grass Puruṣa born in earliest time.
With him the Deities and all Sādhyas and Ṛṣis sacrificed.
8 From that great general sacrifice the dripping fat was gathered up.
He formed the creatures of-the air, and animals both wild and tame.
9 From that great general sacrifice Ṛcas and Sāma-hymns were born:
Therefrom were spells and charms produced; the Yajus had its birth from it.
10 From it were horses born, from it all cattle with two rows of teeth:
From it were generated kine, from it the goats and sheep were born.
11 When they divided Puruṣa how many portions did they make?
What do they call his mouth, his arms? What do they call his thighs and feet?
12 The Brahman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rājanya made.
His thighs became the Vaiśya, from his feet the Śūdra was produced.
13 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;
Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vāyu from his breath.   ............
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Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:00 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Looks like this BBC guy paid some money to the great-great-great-great-great grandson of Manu mian for the information that castes come from Brahma (of the Hindu trinity).

The four varnas were described in the Purusha sooktam (of Rg Veda).

........................
BrhaamanOsya mukhamaaseet
Baahoo raajanyah kritah
Uuru tadasya yadvaisyah
PadbhyAAgm suudrO ajaayata
.....................
Totally wrong representation (figure) above about "Purusha", because it is not in anyway according to hymn 10.90 in the Rig Veda (as stated below, Purusha Sukta). For example, where are a thousand heads, a thousand eyes and a thousand feet, etc. (including the Sun from the eyes and the Moon from the mind) in the above figure, as indicated in Purusha Sukta below.

Purusha Sukta (Rig Veda: 10.90)  :
  
1. A THOUSAND heads hath Puruṣa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet.
On every side pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide.
2 This Puruṣa is all that yet hath been and all that is to be;
The Lord of Immortality which waxes greater still by food.
3 So mighty is his greatness; yea, greater than this is Puruṣa.
All creatures are one-fourth of him, three-fourths eternal life in heaven.
4 With three-fourths Puruṣa went up: one-fourth of him again was here.
Thence he strode out to every side over what cats not and what cats.
5 From him Virāj was born; again Puruṣa from Virāj was born.
As soon as he was born he spread eastward and westward o’er the earth.
6 When Gods prepared the sacrifice with Puruṣa as their offering,
Its oil was spring, the holy gift was autumn; summer was the wood.
7 They balmed as victim on the grass Puruṣa born in earliest time.
With him the Deities and all Sādhyas and Ṛṣis sacrificed.
8 From that great general sacrifice the dripping fat was gathered up.
He formed the creatures of-the air, and animals both wild and tame.
9 From that great general sacrifice Ṛcas and Sāma-hymns were born:
Therefrom were spells and charms produced; the Yajus had its birth from it.
10 From it were horses born, from it all cattle with two rows of teeth:
From it were generated kine, from it the goats and sheep were born.
11 When they divided Puruṣa how many portions did they make?
What do they call his mouth, his arms? What do they call his thighs and feet?
12 The Brahman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rājanya made.
His thighs became the Vaiśya, from his feet the Śūdra was produced.
13 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;
Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vāyu from his breath.   ............
That was my point. The guy who wrote the BBC article and those who are fascinated by it are ignorant.

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Post by TruthSeeker Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:34 pm

First I thought - I should say - Maadarchod CD - how dare you insult Hinduism?

Then I realized - You are right. Insult the caste system in Hinduism in every possible way. Google for such images. 

For me - I still seek the asshole who started Caste System in Hinduism.

Whoever he/they were, has to be a Shudra in action.

A Chaturvedi surname (means he is born a Brahmin) means nothing if he fails 8th grade. A lot of SC/STs are soldiers in Indian army. 

The Truth is - the caste system is nothing but a farce. Used by upper castes to feel superior, even when they have no Karma to prove it.

Folks who believe in Karma (or caste by action, rather than birth) do not use it. 

I personally despise the caste system in Hinduism so much, that I encourage everyone to spit on the face of anyone who uses it, be it for marriage or otherwise.

Spit on their face.

A proud Hindu,
TS.

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Post by garam_kuta Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:10 pm

without upper castes, there can't be lower castes; that means, no quotas, no reservations, no entitlements for the freeloaders, na?

isn't that why perpetuating caste business is a depraved imperative for hindus/indians?

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Post by truthbetold Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:49 am

Vp and seva,

Please help us understand how your explanation contradicts the figure posted to start the thread.

It is common sense that head is considered to be higher stature than feet. It is clearly an attempt of the writer to show relative importance of different groups(castes).

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Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:46 am

truthbetold wrote:Vp and seva,

Please help us understand how your explanation contradicts the figure posted to start the thread.

It is common sense that head is considered to be higher stature than feet. It is clearly an attempt of the writer to show relative importance of different groups(castes).
The Varna classification originally comes from Rg Veda (in Purusha sooktam), not Manu smriti. I wrote on Purusha sooktam when I was on Sulekha explaining the meaning. Let me give a brief summary of what I wrote. Sadhyas examined the chaotic society of their era, discarded it for an orderly society for the benefit of mankind. In the new society, those who tend to be intellectual and work for non-utilitarian ends are called Brahmanas (came from the face of Purusha). Interestingly, Indra and Agni are also placed in the face of Purusha..... Those who do common labour are Sudras (came from the feet of Purusha). Interestingly, the whole physical world also came from the feet of Purusha. The face and the feet are both divine because they come from Purusha; they just happen to be involved in two different activities. There is no mention of any hereditary caste system. 

Bhagavad Gita's Viswaroopa darsan from Krishna to Arjuna is akin to what Sadhyas described as aspects of Purusha in Rg Veda. Krishna asks Arjuna to shed his ignorance and misconceptions and act according to "dharma". In the end, he transforms himself into a behemoth that encompasses everything and shows Arjuna what the world will look like when he sheds his ignorance and misconceptions.

So, the birth based caste classification came much later than the original Rg Vedic era (by selfish utilitarian people who wanted to enjoy the benefits of society?).

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:24 pm

truthbetold wrote:Vp and seva,

Please help us understand how your explanation contradicts the figure posted to start the thread.

It is common sense that head is considered to be higher stature than feet. It is clearly an attempt of the writer to show relative importance of different groups(castes).
TBT, try this link, http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/_caste.html

Notwithstanding the above sketch (essentially in terms of positions on a human body and using the crude Sanskrit translation of Purusa Sukta), the symbolism in the Pususha Sukta (Rig Veda: 10.90) is basically functional (as explained in the above link, according to the needs of society / tribe): brahmins being the mouth of society, kshatriya as the arms of society, vaishya as thighs or supports for society, and sudra as the new additions (newcomers) to the society (basically arriving on foot or by walking).
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Post by confuzzled dude Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:43 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Vp and seva,

Please help us understand how your explanation contradicts the figure posted to start the thread.

It is common sense that head is considered to be higher stature than feet. It is clearly an attempt of the writer to show relative importance of different groups(castes).
TBT, try this link, http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/_caste.html

Notwithstanding the above sketch (essentially in terms of positions on a human body and using the crude Sanskrit translation of Purusa Sukta), the symbolism in the Pususha Sukta (Rig Veda: 10.90) is basically functional (as explained in the above link, according to the needs of society / tribe): brahmins being the mouth of society, kshatriya as the arms of society, vaishya as thighs or supports for society, and sudra as the new additions (newcomers) to the society (basically arriving on foot or by walking).
How did the brains, shoulders and thighs arrive, by Pushpak Viman? Do you think those trekkers that arrived later were legals? Sounds like they were definitely illegals, brought in drugs, crime, were rapists. And some, I assume, were good enough to perform menial jobs.

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Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:12 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Vp and seva,

Please help us understand how your explanation contradicts the figure posted to start the thread.

It is common sense that head is considered to be higher stature than feet. It is clearly an attempt of the writer to show relative importance of different groups(castes).
TBT, try this link, http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/_caste.html

Notwithstanding the above sketch (essentially in terms of positions on a human body and using the crude Sanskrit translation of Purusa Sukta), the symbolism in the Pususha Sukta (Rig Veda: 10.90) is basically functional (as explained in the above link, according to the needs of society / tribe): brahmins being the mouth of society, kshatriya as the arms of society, vaishya as thighs or supports for society, and sudra as the new additions (newcomers) to the society (basically arriving on foot or by walking).
How did the brains, shoulders and thighs arrive, by Pushpak Viman? Do you think those trekkers that arrived later were legals? Sounds like they were definitely illegals, brought in drugs, crime, were rapists. And some, I assume, were good enough to perform menial jobs.
May be the trekkers were the pieceful! If Ibrahim mian (he used to participate on IndoLink) is reading this he will be upset that Seva's Rg Veda calls him a Sudra (where in fact his ancetors might have been relatives of Mayavati) LOL.

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