a thousand flowers are blooming in the egyptian desert

by Propagandhi711 Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:54 pm

and they are burning the US flag, exhorting that there is no god but allah. bicoastal intellectuals are cheering this new development as flag burning and invading embassies are the first signs that a sweet democracy is taking baby steps...in their march towards becoming another mullah dominated theocrazy.

http://news.yahoo.com/egyptians-angry-film-scale-u-embassy-walls-163506344.html

by Hellsangel Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:04 pm

Hmm. Tehran. 1979

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:24 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:...exhorting that there is no god but allah...

"exhort that..." is incorrect construction; nearly always, "exhort" should be followed immediately by an object and "to", for example, "exhorting the people of iran to..."

by Guest Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:30 pm

"We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others," the U.S. embassy said in its statement.

certain paintings come to mind.

by Idéfix Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:48 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:and they are burning the US flag, exhorting that there is no god but allah. bicoastal intellectuals are cheering this new development as flag burning and invading embassies are the first signs that a sweet democracy is taking baby steps...in their march towards becoming another mullah dominated theocrazy.

http://news.yahoo.com/egyptians-angry-film-scale-u-embassy-walls-163506344.html

Yes, the sky is falling. Again.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:58 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:and they are burning the US flag, exhorting that there is no god but allah. bicoastal intellectuals are cheering this new development as flag burning and invading embassies are the first signs that a sweet democracy is taking baby steps...in their march towards becoming another mullah dominated theocrazy.

http://news.yahoo.com/egyptians-angry-film-scale-u-embassy-walls-163506344.html

And...pieceful iSlamis still wonder why this World is against ANYTHING related to iSlam.

Wonder what is store for the coming friday.

by Maria S Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:38 am

Obviously, no one can justify violent protests-killing.

No matter how many zillions of tax payers money the US can throw at other countries in the Middle East (including Israel)that cannot solve their problems and make them love US more. Everyone has their own agenda and sensitivities..speaking of which, I do wonder about Israel pushing and pushing US to go to war with Iran..clearly that would be a disaster..and another huge mess.

I do understand "freedom of speech", but imo, it is a bad idea- to constantly provoke passions- by being so offensive and insulting deep religious faith of so many people..whether it is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism..any religion..there is no good that will ever come of it. It greatly increases distrust and hate.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:05 pm

panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:and they are burning the US flag, exhorting that there is no god but allah. bicoastal intellectuals are cheering this new development as flag burning and invading embassies are the first signs that a sweet democracy is taking baby steps...in their march towards becoming another mullah dominated theocrazy.

http://news.yahoo.com/egyptians-angry-film-scale-u-embassy-walls-163506344.html
Yes, the sky is falling. Again.

no, the sky only falls when two random killings happen in bumfuck kansas and dogdick texas using guns...*gasp*. then the sky is falling.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:13 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:no, the sky only falls when two random killings happen in bumfuck kansas and dogdick texas using guns...*gasp*. then the sky is falling.

If something occurs with a pretty regular frequency, it is no longer wise to consider it random. If the risk of getting killed by guns in the US is higher than that in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and Egypt -- then perhaps the sky may still be holding up, something is very wrong underneath it.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:15 pm

panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:no, the sky only falls when two random killings happen in bumfuck kansas and dogdick texas using guns...*gasp*. then the sky is falling.
If something occurs with a pretty regular frequency, it is no longer wise to consider it random. If the risk of getting killed by guns in the US is higher than that in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and Egypt -- then perhaps the sky may still be holding up, something is very wrong underneath it.

let the tap dancing begin with if, then, if-then-ofcourse, qualifiers. what, it already started? ok then.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:17 pm

Maria S wrote:Obviously, no one can justify violent protests-killing.

No matter how many zillions of tax payers money the US can throw at other countries in the Middle East (including Israel)that cannot solve their problems and make them love US more. Everyone has their own agenda and sensitivities..speaking of which, I do wonder about Israel pushing and pushing US to go to war with Iran..clearly that would be a disaster..and another huge mess.

I do understand "freedom of speech", but imo, it is a bad idea- to constantly provoke passions- by being so offensive and insulting deep religious faith of so many people..whether it is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism..any religion..there is no good that will ever come of it. It greatly increases distrust and hate.

are you saying let the sand niggers kill themselves, NFL season started so fuck'em?

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:no, the sky only falls when two random killings happen in bumfuck kansas and dogdick texas using guns...*gasp*. then the sky is falling.
If something occurs with a pretty regular frequency, it is no longer wise to consider it random. If the risk of getting killed by guns in the US is higher than that in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and Egypt -- then perhaps the sky may still be holding up, something is very wrong underneath it.

let the tap dancing begin with if, then, if-then-ofcourse, qualifiers. what, it already started? ok then.

This is what already started: a higher gun-murder rate in America than in Iraq or Afghanistan.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:45 pm

To put it another way, number of gun-related homicide deaths in the US today: 30+. The number of deaths from the sky-is-falling incident in Cairo is left as an exercise for the reader.

by Maria S Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:58 pm

No, I am saying..the more things change, the more they stay the same..the US pretending that "they will like us more if we go and save them", and others who incite violence being insensitive to other people's faith- be extremely offensive (esp. some followers)..pretending "not to know" what is exactly going to happen..hide like cowards- under freedom of speech.

We never learn, they never learn..that's perhaps the irony of it all.

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:00 pm

How many democracies are there in the middle east?

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:09 pm

Hellsangel wrote:How many democracies are there in the middle east?

As of now, at least three.

by Maria S Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:12 pm

Hellsangel wrote:How many democracies are there in the middle east?

Are they true democracies? And I don't know if this has much credibility..because we supported Saddam, Mubarak, Shah of Iran, kiss and make nice with the Saudi Kingdom, the list goes on and on..and frankly, I don't see how the "democratic" Israel today- is protecting my freedom in India or US..and why we tax payers should pour and pour money into Israel for them to have free medical care, good lifestyles..when so many people are suffering in the US..like 47 million living in poverty here.
If Iran is such a nuclear threat..why isn't Super Power China all worried and ready to bomb them..and spend their trillions there?

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:22 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:How many democracies are there in the middle east?
As of now, at least three.

Please name them.

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:36 pm

Maria S wrote:why we tax payers should pour and pour money into Israel for them to have free medical care, good lifestyles..when so many people are suffering in the US..like 47 million living in poverty here.

this argument "when ppl are suffering here why should we pour money into another country" - it's like saying why pay for insurance when your car isnt washed everyday. why should tax payers feed the poor in this country anyway? no one has an obligation to feed the poor in their own country or elsewhere. one needs to realize that moves on international scale are made based on long term strategic interests of the nation. whether you trust your elected govt to take sound decisions long term is a different matter. am sick of this argument to feed the poor. how should one help the poor? give them food stamps, drug money or cash so they can buy big rims? you see anyone in the US that isnt well fed?

by Propagandhi711 Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:37 pm

panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:no, the sky only falls when two random killings happen in bumfuck kansas and dogdick texas using guns...*gasp*. then the sky is falling.
If something occurs with a pretty regular frequency, it is no longer wise to consider it random. If the risk of getting killed by guns in the US is higher than that in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and Egypt -- then perhaps the sky may still be holding up, something is very wrong underneath it.

let the tap dancing begin with if, then, if-then-ofcourse, qualifiers. what, it already started? ok then.
This is what already started: a higher gun-murder rate in America than in Iraq or Afghanistan.

what about traffic accidents? how does US compare to iraq or afghanistan?

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:12 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:How many democracies are there in the middle east?
As of now, at least three.
Please name them.

Israel, Turkey and Egypt. Israel's democracy is tarnished by the fact that a third of the people that live under its control have no right to vote -- in that sense Israel is as much a democracy as South Africa was under the apartheid regime.

by Maria S Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:17 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Maria S wrote:why we tax payers should pour and pour money into Israel for them to have free medical care, good lifestyles..when so many people are suffering in the US..like 47 million living in poverty here.

this argument "when ppl are suffering here why should we pour money into another country" - it's like saying why pay for insurance when your car isnt washed everyday. why should tax payers feed the poor in this country anyway? no one has an obligation to feed the poor in their own country or elsewhere. one needs to realize that moves on international scale are made based on long term strategic interests of the nation. whether you trust your elected govt to take sound decisions long term is a different matter. am sick of this argument to feed the poor. how should one help the poor? give them food stamps, drug money or cash so they can buy big rims? you see anyone in the US that isnt well fed?

Clearly, we will have to disagree on this one.

*Frankly, I am an immigrant..and while I have done/do my part and paid my taxes, think a lot of citizens/their families have contributed to build this country for centuries/they have served in many ways and may have fallen in hard times..so that I could come and find opportunities here.

*We also know that the wealth gap is enormous and growing for "working poor/families" ..and many of them are one or two pay checks from becoming poor- while the tax system has plenty of loopholes and the super rich avoid paying their share..and the disparities continue to grow..so I am not obligated to give the super rich any breaks either..while many veterans and their families who go and "die for this country and their friends" (am tired of American soldiers dying for people- who don't respect them or help them) and when they return..families are broken, some are homeless and many poor.

It is what it is...am done and you can have the last word in this one!

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:47 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:How many democracies are there in the middle east?
As of now, at least three.
Please name them.
Israel, Turkey and Egypt. Israel's democracy is tarnished by the fact that a third of the people that live under its control have no right to vote -- in that sense Israel is as much a democracy as South Africa was under the apartheid regime.

I would not exactly say Turkey is in the Middle East. And Egyptian democracy = A theocracy of the brotherhood.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:02 pm

Traditional definition of the Middle East:

a thousand flowers are blooming in the egyptian desert Data=Ay5GWBeob_WIPLDYoIWcfVXxvZu9XwJ55OX7Ag,0DDL-6mdE9PcMh9Agnu4leV6RnApX25onlGhwl6atd_BZlIUuffAH4ohjtoXvknnaWujPeiluB-8jK4N7NoNp6SS5JkMXhqErAe4VAsMn82XNJRtOagMpfSpXuhHnB5Hh3N_GGvtzfnN6pybg2XU53d2lA-APfyirLBZuMomzNvTH-t3FAx35NmOgJYz

a thousand flowers are blooming in the egyptian desert Data=Ay5GWBeob_WIPLDYoIWcfVXxvZu9XwJ55OX7Ag,0DDL-6mdE9PcMh9Agnu4leV6RnApX25onlGhwl6atd_BZlIUuffAH4ohjtoXvknnaWujPeiluB-8jK4N7NoNp6SS5JkMXhqErAe4VAsMn82XNJRtOagMpfSpXuhHnB5Hh3N_GGvtzfnN6pybg2XU53d2lA-APfyirLBZuMomzNvTH-t3FAx35NmOgJYz

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:22 pm

panini press wrote:Traditional definition of the Middle East:

OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:46 pm

Hellsangel wrote:OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.

What constitutes the Middle East is a rather important question when you make statements about "only country in the Middle East" where something works. Democracy definitely works in Turkey, and your preference notwithstanding, it is very much a part of what is broadly considered the Middle East. All the talk of democracy working in Israel falls flat when you have a third of your population without any rights.

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:52 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.
What constitutes the Middle East is a rather important question when you make statements about "only country in the Middle East" where something works. Democracy definitely works in Turkey, and your preference notwithstanding, it is very much a part of what is broadly considered the Middle East. All the talk of democracy working in Israel falls flat when you have a third of your population without any rights.

Palestinians are not Israelis. They are Arabs unwanted by their own brethren.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:58 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:no, the sky only falls when two random killings happen in bumfuck kansas and dogdick texas using guns...*gasp*. then the sky is falling.
If something occurs with a pretty regular frequency, it is no longer wise to consider it random. If the risk of getting killed by guns in the US is higher than that in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and Egypt -- then perhaps the sky may still be holding up, something is very wrong underneath it.

let the tap dancing begin with if, then, if-then-ofcourse, qualifiers. what, it already started? ok then.
This is what already started: a higher gun-murder rate in America than in Iraq or Afghanistan.

what about traffic accidents? how does US compare to iraq or afghanistan?

you have to somehow extricate yourself from the daze of GOP-induced befuddlement about false equivalencies. do you see why they are called different things? one is called by your own admission, an accident. gun murder is (intentional) violence. i know the GOP and NRA arguments sound beguiling, but they are not logical. the key here is the intent behind the causal agent. a driver who causes an accident is not usually the equivalent of a fellow who pulls a trigger. one has no mal-intent, the other does. it's that simple.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:01 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.
What constitutes the Middle East is a rather important question when you make statements about "only country in the Middle East" where something works. Democracy definitely works in Turkey, and your preference notwithstanding, it is very much a part of what is broadly considered the Middle East. All the talk of democracy working in Israel falls flat when you have a third of your population without any rights.

Palestinians are not Israelis. They are Arabs unwanted by their own brethren.

i think PP was talking about arabs who live inside israel. this may be helpful.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:06 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.
What constitutes the Middle East is a rather important question when you make statements about "only country in the Middle East" where something works. Democracy definitely works in Turkey, and your preference notwithstanding, it is very much a part of what is broadly considered the Middle East. All the talk of democracy working in Israel falls flat when you have a third of your population without any rights.

Palestinians are not Israelis. They are Arabs unwanted by their own brethren.

You can't claim to be a democracy -- and be taken seriously on that claim -- if a third of your population has no rights. It is not like the Palestinians walked into Israel and are refusing to leave.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:08 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.
What constitutes the Middle East is a rather important question when you make statements about "only country in the Middle East" where something works. Democracy definitely works in Turkey, and your preference notwithstanding, it is very much a part of what is broadly considered the Middle East. All the talk of democracy working in Israel falls flat when you have a third of your population without any rights.

Palestinians are not Israelis. They are Arabs unwanted by their own brethren.
You can't claim to be a democracy -- and be taken seriously on that claim -- if a third of your population has no rights. It is not like the Palestinians walked into Israel and are refusing to leave.

you don't even have to make that stretch argument. there are arabs inside israel who claim israeli citizenship who aren't treated as equal citizens.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.
What constitutes the Middle East is a rather important question when you make statements about "only country in the Middle East" where something works. Democracy definitely works in Turkey, and your preference notwithstanding, it is very much a part of what is broadly considered the Middle East. All the talk of democracy working in Israel falls flat when you have a third of your population without any rights.

Palestinians are not Israelis. They are Arabs unwanted by their own brethren.

i think PP was talking about arabs who live inside israel. this may be helpful.

I wasn't limiting myself to the Arab citizens of Israel. Yes, they don't enjoy equal treatment in Israel, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. The bigger tragedy is the occupation of Palestine and the denial of basic human rights to the occupied population for decades on end. Claims of democracy "working" sound hollow in the face of that.

by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:12 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Traditional definition of the Middle East:

OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.

Has the definition of democracy been changed recently? Shocked

by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:58 pm

omg the images of dead US Ambassador to Libya dragged through the city are so disturbing.

by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:omg the images of dead US Ambassador to Libya dragged through the city are so disturbing.

They did that? What a bunch of barbarians!

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:09 pm

blabberwock wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Traditional definition of the Middle East:

OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.

Has the definition of democracy been changed recently?

No. It hasn't. Snooty lefty liberals can ignore the ground situation in a country that needs to defend itself surrounded by enemies who have vowed its annihilation.

by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:11 pm

UPDATE: Hillary Clinton just said the “protesters” dragged his body to the hospital.

strange... guess pics can be so confusing or misleading.

by Guest Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:17 pm

Natalia Romanova wrote:UPDATE: Hillary Clinton just said the “protesters” dragged his body to the hospital.

strange... guess pics can be so confusing or misleading.

face saving! yeah, 'protesters', yeah, 'dragging' to the hospital! i expected that they are going act like the indian political leaders.
This is going to be a blow on the obama govt and will reflect in the next elections.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:37 pm

the only blow here is to romney's reputation. even conservatives are turning on him for making it a political issue.

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:46 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the only blow here is to romney's reputation. even conservatives are turning on him for making it a political issue.

Yes, of course.

by Idéfix Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:14 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
blabberwock wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Traditional definition of the Middle East:

OK, we can argue on the nitty-gritty of what constitutes the Middle East. The point is democracy will not work in certain countries. The only country where this works in the Middle East is Israel.

Has the definition of democracy been changed recently?

No. It hasn't. Snooty lefty liberals can ignore the ground situation in a country that needs to defend itself surrounded by enemies who have vowed its annihilation.

Snooty lefty liberals also ignored the ground realities of the apartheid regime that needed to defend itself from its enemies. Totally understandable.

by Hellsangel Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:25 pm

panini press wrote:Snooty lefty liberals also ignored the ground realities of the apartheid regime that needed to defend itself from its enemies. Totally understandable.

Of course the snooty lefty liberals will try to equate the two. What has changed in Israel that India was willing to open up Diplomatic relations with it when India would open up Diplomacy with South Africa only after Apartheid ended?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:22 am

kinnera wrote:
face saving! yeah, 'protesters', yeah, 'dragging' to the hospital! i expected that they are going act like the indian political leaders.
This is going to be a blow on the obama govt and will reflect in the next elections.

Yep... Iran is off the hook...for now... Obama can safely bomb Libya and kill the "perpetrators" 1 week before the elections.

by Idéfix Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:01 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Snooty lefty liberals also ignored the ground realities of the apartheid regime that needed to defend itself from its enemies. Totally understandable.

Of course the snooty lefty liberals will try to equate the two. What has changed in Israel that India was willing to open up Diplomatic relations with it when India would open up Diplomacy with South Africa only after Apartheid ended?

Ah, India's foreign policy is the yardstick now to determine whether a regime is democratic!

by Hellsangel Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:08 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:Snooty lefty liberals also ignored the ground realities of the apartheid regime that needed to defend itself from its enemies. Totally understandable.

Of course the snooty lefty liberals will try to equate the two. What has changed in Israel that India was willing to open up Diplomatic relations with it when India would open up Diplomacy with South Africa only after Apartheid ended?
Ah, India's foreign policy is the yardstick now to determine whether a regime is democratic!

No. The point is Apartheid and the Israeli ground situation are two very different things. Of course snooty lefty liberals will see it their own way.

by Idéfix Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:25 pm

Hellsangel wrote:No. The point is Apartheid and the Israeli ground situation are two very different things.

Two very different things, which share some rather striking similarities. The tactics of oppression, for instance.

by Hellsangel Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:35 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:No. The point is Apartheid and the Israeli ground situation are two very different things.
Two very different things, which share some rather striking similarities. The tactics of oppression, for instance.

I suppose from your point of view , the ground situation in Kashmir is very different too.

by Idéfix Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:53 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:No. The point is Apartheid and the Israeli ground situation are two very different things.
Two very different things, which share some rather striking similarities. The tactics of oppression, for instance.

I suppose from your point of view , the ground situation in Kashmir is very different too.

Kashmiris have full and equal rights as citizens of India. Let Israel provide those rights to all the people it rules first, and then we can make that comparison.

by Hellsangel Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:02 pm

panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:No. The point is Apartheid and the Israeli ground situation are two very different things.
Two very different things, which share some rather striking similarities. The tactics of oppression, for instance.

I suppose from your point of view , the ground situation in Kashmir is very different too.
Kashmiris have full and equal rights as citizens of India. Let Israel provide those rights to all the people it rules first, and then we can make that comparison.

Do they? Do you know how many restrictions they have? Can a Kashmiri work freely in another part of India? Can Indian from other parts of India freely invest in Kashmir?

Hope this helps.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:10 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
panini press wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:No. The point is Apartheid and the Israeli ground situation are two very different things.
Two very different things, which share some rather striking similarities. The tactics of oppression, for instance.

I suppose from your point of view , the ground situation in Kashmir is very different too.
Kashmiris have full and equal rights as citizens of India. Let Israel provide those rights to all the people it rules first, and then we can make that comparison.

Do they? Do you know how many restrictions they have? Can a Kashmiri work freely in another part of India? Can Indian from other parts of India freely invest in Kashmir?

Hope this helps.

india is not a yardstick for how democracy should function. utopia is. Israel and US should be utopian societies. that's how we berkley types see it and we're unanimous.

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