Loan Contingency

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:45 pm

We are buying a house. Our loan is approved conditionally. So we provided the documents/clarifications underwriter asked for. They havent yet approved our loan.

Per contract, we were supposed to remove all contingencies in 10 days. We removed appraisal and inspection contingencies.

Everyone is advising us against removing loan contingency. We are closing in 2 weeks. Already 3 days past per contract to remove all contingencies. Have we lost our initial deposit anyway ? Our relator thinks so.

Any thoughts ? personal experiences ?

PS: we have decided to remove all contingencies. our realtor said we can sign it tomorrow as she bought some time from seller's agent.
PPS: she was so eager to get us to drop all contingencies. wasted all our friday evening. emailed our loan agent at 4am and called us at 7:35am to sign documents.

by truthbetold Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:41 pm

What is a loan contingency? Do you have an additional loan such as personal loan or car loan?

A salesperson ( in this case realtor) always tries to close the deal in the shortest time frame possible. It is in their interest to do so. Do not be pressurized by them. Respect them for their knowledge of location and bank practices and procedures. But do not be pushed around in the name of seller cannot wait. If it is your first house take more time to think through.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:14 pm

truthbetold wrote:What is a loan contingency? Do you have an additional loan such as personal loan or car loan?

A salesperson ( in this case realtor) always tries to close the deal in the shortest time frame possible. It is in their interest to do so. Do not be pressurized by them. Respect them for their knowledge of location and bank practices and procedures. But do not be pushed around in the name of seller cannot wait. If it is your first house take more time to think through.

loan contingency is when buyer can back off if we cant get a loan. we got our loan approved conditionally. so we will most likely get the loan. we were hoping to not remove contingency until closing.

by confuzzled dude Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:22 pm

seven wrote:
truthbetold wrote:What is a loan contingency? Do you have an additional loan such as personal loan or car loan?

A salesperson ( in this case realtor) always tries to close the deal in the shortest time frame possible. It is in their interest to do so. Do not be pressurized by them. Respect them for their knowledge of location and bank practices and procedures. But do not be pushed around in the name of seller cannot wait. If it is your first house take more time to think through.

loan contingency is when buyer can back off if we cant get a loan. we got our loan approved conditionally. so we will most likely get the loan. we were hoping to not remove contingency until closing.

Till closing sounds very unusual, unless buyer has no other contracts it is unlikely that they will agree for it

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:24 pm

truthbetold wrote:What is a loan contingency? Do you have an additional loan such as personal loan or car loan?

A salesperson ( in this case realtor) always tries to close the deal in the shortest time frame possible. It is in their interest to do so. Do not be pressurized by them. Respect them for their knowledge of location and bank practices and procedures. But do not be pushed around in the name of seller cannot wait. If it is your first house take more time to think through.

a contingency is a mechanism that lets the buyer off the hook from buying the house if certain conditions are not met:

a) loan contingency -- if the loan doesn't get approved, buyer has the right to walk out of the deal
b) inspection contingency -- if the house doesn't pass inspection and/or the buyer and seller are not able to negotiate adjustments to the purchase price as a result of inspections, buyer has the right to walk out. and so on.

if you waive the contingency and then don't perform on the contract, i.e. walk out of the deal, you lose the deposit you paid upfront.

in the unique real estate culture of northern and southern california, the buyer is required to strip naked, waive all contingencies, and present their nether regions to the seller to do as they please, if they have to have a prayer of being awarded the prestigious title of "real estate owner". the reward is that they get to do what they wish to the nether regions of the future buyer of their house.

seven -- you need a real estate lawyer more than you need a realtor. always start any real estate negotiation whether you are the buyer or the seller with the assumption that the oily realtor you are dealing with is an asshole. if you do this, you'll be fine.

by truthbetold Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:28 pm

Seven, cd, and Max

Thanks for the info. Home buying is different on western front.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:29 pm

i live in california.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:32 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
seven wrote:
truthbetold wrote:What is a loan contingency? Do you have an additional loan such as personal loan or car loan?

A salesperson ( in this case realtor) always tries to close the deal in the shortest time frame possible. It is in their interest to do so. Do not be pressurized by them. Respect them for their knowledge of location and bank practices and procedures. But do not be pushed around in the name of seller cannot wait. If it is your first house take more time to think through.

loan contingency is when buyer can back off if we cant get a loan. we got our loan approved conditionally. so we will most likely get the loan. we were hoping to not remove contingency until closing.
Till closing sounds very unusual, unless buyer has no other contracts it is unlikely that they will agree for it

I understand it's unfair to them. They need to know we wont back off on day 25 and take our initial deposit back. Just like we need to know they will not sell the house to sm1 else paying 50K higher than our offer price on the final day.

we'll remove all contingencies tomorrow and close in 2 weeks. this whole home buying experience is killing my enthusiasm to decorate my new house <3

everything will go well. we do not have any money that we cannot explain. good credit review and steady income. they will give us the loan.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:39 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:What is a loan contingency? Do you have an additional loan such as personal loan or car loan?

A salesperson ( in this case realtor) always tries to close the deal in the shortest time frame possible. It is in their interest to do so. Do not be pressurized by them. Respect them for their knowledge of location and bank practices and procedures. But do not be pushed around in the name of seller cannot wait. If it is your first house take more time to think through.

a contingency is a mechanism that lets the buyer off the hook from buying the house if certain conditions are not met:

a) loan contingency -- if the loan doesn't get approved, buyer has the right to walk out of the deal
b) inspection contingency -- if the house doesn't pass inspection and/or the buyer and seller are not able to negotiate adjustments to the purchase price as a result of inspections, buyer has the right to walk out. and so on.

if you waive the contingency and then don't perform on the contract, i.e. walk out of the deal, you lose the deposit you paid upfront.

in the unique real estate culture of northern and southern california, the buyer is required to strip naked, waive all contingencies, and present their nether regions to the seller to do as they please, if they have to have a prayer of being awarded the prestigious title of "real estate owner". the reward is that they get to do what they wish to the nether regions of the future buyer of their house.

seven -- you need a real estate lawyer more than you need a realtor. always start any real estate negotiation whether you are the buyer or the seller with the assumption that the oily realtor you are dealing with is an asshole. if you do this, you'll be fine.

It is true, max. the sellers are so unrealistic in california. they want no contingencies and dont care for request for repairs and do not reduce the price.
we lost some 5-6 houses prior to this one we got. some real good houses that i loved. still love. much better views and close to cool places (walking distance). i dont even wanna think about them now Sad

anyway so the last house that we lost, we offered $30K over asking price and we were confident we'll get it. we also met the sellers and told them to at least counter us when they reviewed offers. the folks that got the house, removed ALL contingencies in 5 days! that's right. 5 f.i.v.e. days. we found out later, the offer price was 11K less than our offer Sad

i was hoping and praying till the 5th day, their deal will fall apart and we were the back up offer.

crazy crazy seller's market. i can't wait to become a seller :p in 5 years Very Happy

I know what you mean by 'need a lawyer more than a realtor' and i agree it's good to have a lawyer review your contract.
But, max, in this seller's market, no matter what terms i'd like to add to the contract, i'll have to only add the ones sellers like and the ones that are better than other buyers.
also, if i dont have a realtor on my side, i'll prolly never get the house i like. realtors know each other and its important to work with them if you want your offer to be considered.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:44 pm

going with the listing agent is even better. it increases your chances of getting the house.
if its a new property and you leave section 1 contingencies (seller pays for any major section 1 repairs - roof, plumbing, foundation etc), one should go with listing agent.

i learned so much about home buying stuff.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:44 pm

if it is such a seller's market, why are you buying? what is the big tearing hurry? don't buy the american notion that if you don't buy a home you are a leper. in fact the only people who probably believe this myth are indian americans. yes you have to deal with realtors unfortunately, but get someone on your side. get a lawyer. don't sign anything and i mean anything, even the littlest document until you have it seen by a lawyer. i don't trust anyone in the real estate industry -- the whole lot of them realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, all crooks of the first order. spend some money, hire a lawyer and save yourself from making stupid mistakes.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:47 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if it is such a seller's market, why are you buying? what is the big tearing hurry? don't buy the american notion that if you don't buy a home you are a leper. in fact the only people who probably believe this myth are indian americans.

we pay $2500 for a 1 bedroom 670 sq ft apartment. the rent will go up when we renew the lease in aug. doesnt make sense to go on like this. we thought about it and even if we have to live here 10yrs, it made sense to buy than rent.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:51 pm

ok so i know we should have bought when the market was down etc.
it was a mistake. we thought we're not going to live here forever. buying is like settling down etc. bad bad thinking.

but we can't wait another 5 years for market to crash. which btw seems very unlikely. wont happen. banks are wise now. the amount of paperwork they want! explanations for everything...it wont happen again. i think. not in near future at least.
also we just wanted to buy our own place. and stop renting. dont paint this wall. dont hang that there. arghh

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:53 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if it is such a seller's market, why are you buying? what is the big tearing hurry? don't buy the american notion that if you don't buy a home you are a leper. in fact the only people who probably believe this myth are indian americans. yes you have to deal with realtors unfortunately, but get someone on your side. get a lawyer. don't sign anything and i mean anything, even the littlest document until you have it seen by a lawyer. i don't trust anyone in the real estate industry -- the whole lot of them realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, all crooks of the first order. spend some money, hire a lawyer and save yourself from making stupid mistakes.

by b_A Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:59 pm

seven wrote:
also we just wanted to buy our own place. and stop renting. dont paint this wall. dont hang that there. arghh

Funny thing is that after you become homeowners , you will start saying the same thing to yourself/spouse.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:01 pm

b_A wrote:
seven wrote:
also we just wanted to buy our own place. and stop renting. dont paint this wall. dont hang that there. arghh

Funny thing is that after you become homeowners , you will start saying the same thing to yourself/spouse.

no way!

i've already decided i'll paint which wall what color and hang what where..oh so excited Very Happy

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:02 pm

seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if it is such a seller's market, why are you buying? what is the big tearing hurry? don't buy the american notion that if you don't buy a home you are a leper. in fact the only people who probably believe this myth are indian americans. yes you have to deal with realtors unfortunately, but get someone on your side. get a lawyer. don't sign anything and i mean anything, even the littlest document until you have it seen by a lawyer. i don't trust anyone in the real estate industry -- the whole lot of them realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, all crooks of the first order. spend some money, hire a lawyer and save yourself from making stupid mistakes.

i didn't mean to scare you, but as you can tell, i am not a fan of the industry. the entire game is to make a transaction happen at any cost. that is the only way the people in the middle make money. IMO there is an inherent conflict of interest when the situation is set up like this, and the realtors and others involved in the transaction are not looking out for the interest of anyone other than themselves. that's the reason i advised you to hire a lawyer, the only person who'll have your interests at heart. a lawyer typically comes into the picture at the end of the process, during closing. IMO in a place like calif or the northeast where the usual norms of a real estate transaction like contingencies are thrown out the window, buyers need lawyers from the get go. if you find this expensive you can sign up for a pre-paid legal plan just like you buy insurance.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:21 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:if it is such a seller's market, why are you buying? what is the big tearing hurry? don't buy the american notion that if you don't buy a home you are a leper. in fact the only people who probably believe this myth are indian americans. yes you have to deal with realtors unfortunately, but get someone on your side. get a lawyer. don't sign anything and i mean anything, even the littlest document until you have it seen by a lawyer. i don't trust anyone in the real estate industry -- the whole lot of them realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, all crooks of the first order. spend some money, hire a lawyer and save yourself from making stupid mistakes.

i didn't mean to scare you, but as you can tell, i am not a fan of the industry. the entire game is to make a transaction happen at any cost. that is the only way the people in the middle make money. IMO there is an inherent conflict of interest when the situation is set up like this, and the realtors and others involved in the transaction are not looking out for the interest of anyone other than themselves. that's the reason i advised you to hire a lawyer, the only person who'll have your interests at heart. a lawyer typically comes into the picture at the end of the process, during closing. IMO in a place like calif or the northeast where the usual norms of a real estate transaction like contingencies are thrown out the window, buyers need lawyers from the get go. if you find this expensive you can sign up for a pre-paid legal plan just like you buy insurance.

i couldn't agree more. i know everyone is waiting for the deal to be closed. only then they get paid. honestly, i am waiting too. I know a paralegal friend. she hasn't passed the bar but can still have a look at the language in our contract (which btw we have already signed)...umm or maybe i'll do this lawyer thing next time. it's pointless now anyway is what i am saying.

by Kris Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:01 pm

seven wrote:We are buying a house. Our loan is approved conditionally. So we provided the documents/clarifications underwriter asked for. They havent yet approved our loan.

Per contract, we were supposed to remove all contingencies in 10 days. We removed appraisal and inspection contingencies.

Everyone is advising us against removing loan contingency. We are closing in 2 weeks. Already 3 days past per contract to remove all contingencies. Have we lost our initial deposit anyway ? Our relator thinks so.

Any thoughts ? personal experiences ?

PS: we have decided to remove all contingencies. our realtor said we can sign it tomorrow as she bought some time from seller's agent.
PPS: she was so eager to get us to drop all contingencies. wasted all our friday evening. emailed our loan agent at 4am and called us at 7:35am to sign documents.

>>>Call your Lender and explain to them you need to remove the loan contingency and keep bugging them. Avoid removing the loan contingency as much as possible in the small chance that the loan does not got through. Yes, you are in a seller's market and that does put you at a disadvantage. If it is the south bay or maybe even east bay, all cash offers also crop up. It is what it is. One other thought: can your house hunt wait till after summer? A lot of people will be out of the market which will ease some of the pressure.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:10 pm

Kris wrote:
seven wrote:We are buying a house. Our loan is approved conditionally. So we provided the documents/clarifications underwriter asked for. They havent yet approved our loan.

Per contract, we were supposed to remove all contingencies in 10 days. We removed appraisal and inspection contingencies.

Everyone is advising us against removing loan contingency. We are closing in 2 weeks. Already 3 days past per contract to remove all contingencies. Have we lost our initial deposit anyway ? Our relator thinks so.

Any thoughts ? personal experiences ?

PS: we have decided to remove all contingencies. our realtor said we can sign it tomorrow as she bought some time from seller's agent.
PPS: she was so eager to get us to drop all contingencies. wasted all our friday evening. emailed our loan agent at 4am and called us at 7:35am to sign documents.
>>>Call your Lender and explain to them you need to remove the loan contingency and keep bugging them. Avoid removing the loan contingency as much as possible in the small chance that the loan does not got through. Yes, you are in a seller's market and that does put you at a disadvantage. If it is the south bay or maybe even east bay, all cash offers also crop up. It is what it is. One other thought: can your house hunt wait till after summer? A lot of people will be out of the market which will ease some of the pressure.

we are in contract, kris. the inventory also will be low after summer. not many people will be selling. esp in desirable locations. we've been looking for a long time (since Jan). also, the interest rates might go up. we dont wanna wait so long.

The loan agent is saying these are very basic conditions and she doesnt see any issue with our loan getting approved. However, she sent us an email saying she cannot guarantee this a 100%. not allowed to by bank law/policies.

our realtor is putting a lot of pressure on us. we already pushed it by 3 days, if we count sat and sunday.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:16 pm

i will NEVER waive contingencies which means i'll probably never own real estate in california. not that i want to. contingencies are there to protect people and i don't much like it that the process in your great state thwarts it. waiving the inspection contingency in particular is downright dangerous IMO. what will you do if you find that there are structural problems with the house, or something is seriously wrong with the foundation that is unfixable? or that it sits on ground that is about to become a sinkhole?

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:24 pm

IMO realtors have conditioned buyers into thinking that prices only go up. this is why it is best to interact with them as little as necessary. this comment isn't just directed at you seven, so please don't take it personally, but only fools think there are no such things as booms and busts even in tight markets like the northeast and california.

http://www.paragon-re.com/Case_Shiller_Index_Deciphered_for_SF

Loan Contingency Case-Shiller_HT_1996-2011

Loan Contingency Case-Shiller_HT_1996-2011

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:28 pm

having given you all this "objective" sounding nonsense, i concede that the desire and drive to buy a house is almost biological and i have made my own share of mistakes. both sexes suffer from it, but it is probably stronger in women. maybe a manifestation of a drive to roost. if you must buy, buy and stay in it for a long time. try not to sell any time soon and try to deal with real estate professionals as little as possible over your lifetime. have fun in your new house.

by Kris Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:30 pm

seven wrote:
Kris wrote:
seven wrote:We are buying a house. Our loan is approved conditionally. So we provided the documents/clarifications underwriter asked for. They havent yet approved our loan.

Per contract, we were supposed to remove all contingencies in 10 days. We removed appraisal and inspection contingencies.

Everyone is advising us against removing loan contingency. We are closing in 2 weeks. Already 3 days past per contract to remove all contingencies. Have we lost our initial deposit anyway ? Our relator thinks so.

Any thoughts ? personal experiences ?

PS: we have decided to remove all contingencies. our realtor said we can sign it tomorrow as she bought some time from seller's agent.
PPS: she was so eager to get us to drop all contingencies. wasted all our friday evening. emailed our loan agent at 4am and called us at 7:35am to sign documents.
>>>Call your Lender and explain to them you need to remove the loan contingency and keep bugging them. Avoid removing the loan contingency as much as possible in the small chance that the loan does not got through. Yes, you are in a seller's market and that does put you at a disadvantage. If it is the south bay or maybe even east bay, all cash offers also crop up. It is what it is. One other thought: can your house hunt wait till after summer? A lot of people will be out of the market which will ease some of the pressure.

we are in contract, kris. the inventory also will be low after summer. not many people will be selling. esp in desirable locations. we've been looking for a long time (since Jan). also, the interest rates might go up. we dont wanna wait so long.

The loan agent is saying these are very basic conditions and she doesnt see any issue with our loan getting approved. However, she sent us an email saying she cannot guarantee this a 100%. not allowed to by bank law/policies.

our realtor is putting a lot of pressure on us. we already pushed it by 3 days, if we count sat and sunday.

>>>Yeah, this is a standard CYA move. I understand the predicament you are in and she may be right about the conditions being standard, but is the Loan Agent a third party who is referring your deal to the Lender? If she is not the Lender's employee, your risk increases. You may want to take that into consideration. Is the realtor pressuring you because the lender has back-up offers or he/she wants to close the deal for the fee?

by Kris Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:37 pm

Kris wrote:
seven wrote:
Kris wrote:
seven wrote:We are buying a house. Our loan is approved conditionally. So we provided the documents/clarifications underwriter asked for. They havent yet approved our loan.

Per contract, we were supposed to remove all contingencies in 10 days. We removed appraisal and inspection contingencies.

Everyone is advising us against removing loan contingency. We are closing in 2 weeks. Already 3 days past per contract to remove all contingencies. Have we lost our initial deposit anyway ? Our relator thinks so.

Any thoughts ? personal experiences ?

PS: we have decided to remove all contingencies. our realtor said we can sign it tomorrow as she bought some time from seller's agent.
PPS: she was so eager to get us to drop all contingencies. wasted all our friday evening. emailed our loan agent at 4am and called us at 7:35am to sign documents.
>>>Call your Lender and explain to them you need to remove the loan contingency and keep bugging them. Avoid removing the loan contingency as much as possible in the small chance that the loan does not got through. Yes, you are in a seller's market and that does put you at a disadvantage. If it is the south bay or maybe even east bay, all cash offers also crop up. It is what it is. One other thought: can your house hunt wait till after summer? A lot of people will be out of the market which will ease some of the pressure.

we are in contract, kris. the inventory also will be low after summer. not many people will be selling. esp in desirable locations. we've been looking for a long time (since Jan). also, the interest rates might go up. we dont wanna wait so long.

The loan agent is saying these are very basic conditions and she doesnt see any issue with our loan getting approved. However, she sent us an email saying she cannot guarantee this a 100%. not allowed to by bank law/policies.

our realtor is putting a lot of pressure on us. we already pushed it by 3 days, if we count sat and sunday.
>>>Yeah, this is a standard CYA move. I understand the predicament you are in and she may be right about the conditions being standard, but is the Loan Agent a third party who is referring your deal to the Lender? If she is not the Lender's employee, your risk increases. You may want to take that into consideration. Is the realtor pressuring you because the lender has back-up offers or he/she wants to close the deal for the fee?

>>>Sorry. I meant to add that if you are going to take a calculated risk, do so if the seller has back-up offers not due to pressure from the realtor.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:44 pm

seven wrote:
we've been looking for a long time (since Jan).

haha! you and i have very different ideas about what constitutes a long time. to me long time is 2.5 years and looking at a minimum of 250 houses before pulling the trigger, the sales and listing history of every single one of those houses, looking at maps to see desirability of location, proximity of power lines, and if other family members are so inclined, vAsthu, googling the sellers and the listing agent to see if they've been involved in something shady, and investigating how far away the nearest sex offender lives.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:05 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:
we've been looking for a long time (since Jan).

haha! you and i have very different ideas about what constitutes a long time. to me long time is 2.5 years and looking at a minimum of 250 houses before pulling the trigger, the sales and listing history of every single one of those houses, looking at maps to see desirability of location, proximity of power lines, and if other family members are so inclined, vAsthu, googling the sellers and the listing agent to see if they've been involved in something shady, and investigating how far away the nearest sex offender lives.

oh i wanna tell you, this house iss perfect per vaastu. great neighborhood, good schools, safe distance away from crime/criminals, the realtor comes highly recommended by a co-worker, has been doing this for over 20 years, we didnt check for proximity to power lines - what's the point ? it's not like the power lines will fall on the house or anything.

looking at 250 houses is a little too much. and 2.5 years??? are you kidding ? market changes in 2.5 years. they consider comps to be houses sold in last 3-6 months. 2.5 years is too long to do research and buy. for me it is too long.

by confuzzled dude Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:53 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:IMO realtors have conditioned buyers into thinking that prices only go up. this is why it is best to interact with them as little as necessary. this comment isn't just directed at you seven, so please don't take it personally, but only fools think there are no such things as booms and busts even in tight markets like the northeast and california.

http://www.paragon-re.com/Case_Shiller_Index_Deciphered_for_SF

WOW! housing market in the Bay area has completely recovered and ascended previous highs (bubble) when slowed down in rest of the country, this year. Is that for real?

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:59 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:IMO realtors have conditioned buyers into thinking that prices only go up. this is why it is best to interact with them as little as necessary. this comment isn't just directed at you seven, so please don't take it personally, but only fools think there are no such things as booms and busts even in tight markets like the northeast and california.

http://www.paragon-re.com/Case_Shiller_Index_Deciphered_for_SF

WOW! housing market in the Bay area has completely recovered and ascended previous highs (bubble) when slowed down in rest of the country, this year. Is that for real?

yes, cd. the prices are now back to 2005 prices pirat

by confuzzled dude Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:09 pm

seven wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:IMO realtors have conditioned buyers into thinking that prices only go up. this is why it is best to interact with them as little as necessary. this comment isn't just directed at you seven, so please don't take it personally, but only fools think there are no such things as booms and busts even in tight markets like the northeast and california.

http://www.paragon-re.com/Case_Shiller_Index_Deciphered_for_SF

WOW! housing market in the Bay area has completely recovered and ascended previous highs (bubble) when slowed down in rest of the country, this year. Is that for real?

yes, cd. the prices are now back to 2005 prices

*sigh* I've upgraded during the peak of the bubble, after 8 years, my house value is still about 15% below; of course, I don't regret not living in CA Razz

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:12 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
*sigh* I've upgraded during the peak of the bubble, after 8 years, my house value is still about 15% below; of course, I don't regret not living in CA

why sigh then? if you upgraded during the peak, then you must have done well on the sale even if you didn't on the buy. i upgraded during the crash and i am not too worried. i lost a good chunk on the sale, but hoping i did better than recover what i lost on the buy. time will tell.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:16 pm

don't sigh Smile

it's all worth it if you're going to live in that house. doesnt matter if you bought/upgraded it when the market was down or up.

our realtor is an investor too. she has 14 properties, all rented out and paying for themselves with some positive cash flow $-)

how cool is that!

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:19 pm

seven wrote:don't sigh

it's all worth it if you're going to live in that house. doesnt matter if you bought/upgraded it when the market was down or up.

our realtor is an investor too. she has 14 properties, all rented out and paying for themselves with some positive cash flow $-)

how cool is that!

i don't know how cool that is, but life is too short to have one conversation more than necessary with a realtor.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:22 pm

COntingency is the buyer can pull back and get the initial deposit of 5, 10, 20% downpayment

If the inspection fails

If loan is disapproved.

If both pass and you changed your mind about house, your downpayment is gone.

Another scenario:

all these have specific deadlines 5, 15, 25 days from initial agreement. If your loan is not approved by the and you are unable to buy before the deadline, you lose your downpayment. Seven has a conditional approval and and on the deadline she has to decide to withdraw OR take a deep breath and get the loan and pay - again before closing date. Otherwise money is gone.

I almost made a purchase in Boston but developed cold feet when the conditional loan was still waiting for approval on the deadline. I did not want to lose my 20% and withdrew.

The owners refused to EXTEND the deadline and I was too chicken to risk the big amount. The frikkin unit was in a prime area and went up by 120K in 2 years.

It is so different and easy in Midwest and SE is similar but things move fast there - unlike East/West coast.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:22 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:don't sigh

it's all worth it if you're going to live in that house. doesnt matter if you bought/upgraded it when the market was down or up.

our realtor is an investor too. she has 14 properties, all rented out and paying for themselves with some positive cash flow $-)

how cool is that!

i don't know how cool that is, but life is too short to have one conversation more than necessary with a realtor.

hahaha hahah i used to feel like she gives tmi and tells us a lot of things unasked. i also felt like she doesnt let us think/ form our own opinion about a place if she's with us, showing us a property.
we started avoiding her and going without her unless the house was empty and we needed a key to open it or seeing smthing late evenings etc.
i guess then i got used to it and started seeing merit in what she had to say. so yea, that's when she told us about her 14 properties.

by confuzzled dude Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:22 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
*sigh* I've upgraded during the peak of the bubble, after 8 years, my house value is still about 15% below; of course, I don't regret not living in CA

why sigh then? if you upgraded during the peak, then you must have done well on the sale even if you didn't on the buy. i upgraded during the crash and i am not too worried. i lost a good chunk on the sale, but hoping i did better than recover what i lost on the buy. time will tell.

I made wrong calculations and screwed up with the sale, I would still be broke even (barely), If I sold my house in current market.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:27 pm

seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:don't sigh

it's all worth it if you're going to live in that house. doesnt matter if you bought/upgraded it when the market was down or up.

our realtor is an investor too. she has 14 properties, all rented out and paying for themselves with some positive cash flow $-)

how cool is that!

i don't know how cool that is, but life is too short to have one conversation more than necessary with a realtor.

hahaha hahah i used to feel like she gives tmi and tells us a lot of things unasked. i also felt like she doesnt let us think/ form our own opinion about a place if she's with us, showing us a property.
we started avoiding her and going without her unless the house was empty and we needed a key to open it or seeing smthing late evenings etc.
i guess then i got used to it and started seeing merit in what she had to say. so yea, that's when she told us about her 14 properties.

in this era, i really don't know what these assholes bring to the table other than a burning desire to rip you off. data on every f'ing sale in the recent past including listing prices and listing price changes, and taxes are available on the internet. and if you've done your homework you are sensitively tuned to the local market conditions including location and amenities in the house. so avoid these scumbags except when you actually have to make an offer. work on your own and don't let them influence you one bit.

on my last RE purchase, i laid out the parameters under which i was willing to work right in the beginning. only texts and emails. no phone conversations unless we were going to make an offer. they are too lazy to type and won't go beyond writing essential information. that way you keep all their hotair to a bare minimum.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:31 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:COntingency is the buyer can pull back and get the initial deposit of 5, 10, 20% downpayment

If the inspection fails

If loan is disapproved.

If both pass and you changed your mind about house, your downpayment is gone.

Another scenario:

all these have specific deadlines 5, 15, 25 days from initial agreement. If your loan is not approved by the and you are unable to buy before the deadline, you lose your downpayment. Seven has a conditional approval and and on the deadline she has to decide to withdraw OR take a deep breath and get the loan and pay - again before closing date. Otherwise money is gone.

I almost made a purchase in Boston but developed cold feet when the conditional loan was still waiting for approval on the deadline. I did not want to lose my 20% and withdrew.

The owners refused to EXTEND the deadline and I was too chicken to risk the big amount. The frikkin unit was in a prime area and went up by 120K in 2 years.

It is so different and easy in Midwest and SE is similar but things move fast there - unlike East/West coast.

Our initial deposit is 3% of the total purchase price. not the entire 20%. We've paid half of it when we signed the contract and will pay the other half upon removal of contingencies. This money will not come back if the deal doesnt go through - bcz loan didnt get funded or bcz we chickened out.
There is no way we can not remove contingencies until the loan is funded, which will happen one day before closing of escrow.
Loan is always conditional. If the property changes (an electric line/grid falls on it) or we take another very big loan or spend obscene amount of money prior to closing or lose our jobs etc., the loan will not be funded. or they will ask us to put more money down.
This conditional approval is to release loan documents. they will be checking our credit history again before funding.

There is no way we can not remove contingency until the last day. the norm is 17 days in cali. our contract says 10 days. we are past that already. lucky for us they havent sent us a notice to perform yet.

we'll remove all contingencies tomorrow and pay the remaining initial deposit to the seller can breathe easy. we love their house and want to buy it <3

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:don't sigh

it's all worth it if you're going to live in that house. doesnt matter if you bought/upgraded it when the market was down or up.

our realtor is an investor too. she has 14 properties, all rented out and paying for themselves with some positive cash flow $-)

how cool is that!

i don't know how cool that is, but life is too short to have one conversation more than necessary with a realtor.

hahaha hahah i used to feel like she gives tmi and tells us a lot of things unasked. i also felt like she doesnt let us think/ form our own opinion about a place if she's with us, showing us a property.
we started avoiding her and going without her unless the house was empty and we needed a key to open it or seeing smthing late evenings etc.
i guess then i got used to it and started seeing merit in what she had to say. so yea, that's when she told us about her 14 properties.

in this era, i really don't know what these assholes bring to the table other than a burning desire to rip you off. data on every f'ing sale in the recent past including listing prices and listing price changes, and taxes are available on the internet. and if you've done your homework you are sensitively tuned to the local market conditions including location and amenities in the house. so avoid these scumbags except when you actually have to make an offer. work on your own and don't let them influence you one bit.

on my last RE purchase, i laid out the parameters under which i was willing to work right in the beginning. only texts and emails. no phone conversations unless we were going to make an offer. they are too lazy to type and won't go beyond writing essential information. that way you keep all their hotair to a bare minimum.

as we are getting closer to closing this deal, we are realizing she didn't really do much. no negotiations. we made a very good offer, better than comps and we look good on papers, our finances are in place. we were talking about this just this wknd, next time, we wont hire a realtor.

we'll get a lawyer to write the contract. thats it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:38 pm

seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:don't sigh

it's all worth it if you're going to live in that house. doesnt matter if you bought/upgraded it when the market was down or up.

our realtor is an investor too. she has 14 properties, all rented out and paying for themselves with some positive cash flow $-)

how cool is that!

i don't know how cool that is, but life is too short to have one conversation more than necessary with a realtor.

hahaha hahah i used to feel like she gives tmi and tells us a lot of things unasked. i also felt like she doesnt let us think/ form our own opinion about a place if she's with us, showing us a property.
we started avoiding her and going without her unless the house was empty and we needed a key to open it or seeing smthing late evenings etc.
i guess then i got used to it and started seeing merit in what she had to say. so yea, that's when she told us about her 14 properties.

in this era, i really don't know what these assholes bring to the table other than a burning desire to rip you off. data on every f'ing sale in the recent past including listing prices and listing price changes, and taxes are available on the internet. and if you've done your homework you are sensitively tuned to the local market conditions including location and amenities in the house. so avoid these scumbags except when you actually have to make an offer. work on your own and don't let them influence you one bit.

on my last RE purchase, i laid out the parameters under which i was willing to work right in the beginning. only texts and emails. no phone conversations unless we were going to make an offer. they are too lazy to type and won't go beyond writing essential information. that way you keep all their hotair to a bare minimum.

as we are getting closer to closing this deal, we are realizing she didn't really do much. no negotiations. we made a very good offer, better than comps and we look good on papers, our finances are in place. we were talking about this just this wknd, next time, we wont hire a realtor.

we'll get a lawyer to write the contract. thats it.

during the last RE purchase, the idiot we worked with would be flabbergasted that we wouldn't even want to see some house she was suggesting and rejecting it outright. i'd point to the map and list the reasons why i didn't want to waste my time - close to a railway line, freeway, or that the backyard was overlooking another property, or it was too close to a power line. i told her with all these tools there is no reason to waste time on properties that are never going to make the shortlist.

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:39 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
*sigh* I've upgraded during the peak of the bubble, after 8 years, my house value is still about 15% below; of course, I don't regret not living in CA

why sigh then? if you upgraded during the peak, then you must have done well on the sale even if you didn't on the buy. i upgraded during the crash and i am not too worried. i lost a good chunk on the sale, but hoping i did better than recover what i lost on the buy. time will tell.
I made wrong calculations and screwed up with the sale, I would still be broke even (barely), If I sold my house in current market.

so get it re-financed. talk to your bank and reduce the total loan amount. when market crashed after 2008, our friends negotiated with bank and their total loan was $630K and they brought it down to $590K. Their house is now $850K. They recently bought a new house (only 2 miles away from our new house yay! ) and not selling the first one. bcz once Apple comes there, the house price will go even higher. They rented it out for 14 months $-)$-)

are you sad now to be not living in california Very Happy

by seven Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
seven wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

i don't know how cool that is, but life is too short to have one conversation more than necessary with a realtor.

hahaha hahah i used to feel like she gives tmi and tells us a lot of things unasked. i also felt like she doesnt let us think/ form our own opinion about a place if she's with us, showing us a property.
we started avoiding her and going without her unless the house was empty and we needed a key to open it or seeing smthing late evenings etc.
i guess then i got used to it and started seeing merit in what she had to say. so yea, that's when she told us about her 14 properties.

in this era, i really don't know what these assholes bring to the table other than a burning desire to rip you off. data on every f'ing sale in the recent past including listing prices and listing price changes, and taxes are available on the internet. and if you've done your homework you are sensitively tuned to the local market conditions including location and amenities in the house. so avoid these scumbags except when you actually have to make an offer. work on your own and don't let them influence you one bit.

on my last RE purchase, i laid out the parameters under which i was willing to work right in the beginning. only texts and emails. no phone conversations unless we were going to make an offer. they are too lazy to type and won't go beyond writing essential information. that way you keep all their hotair to a bare minimum.

as we are getting closer to closing this deal, we are realizing she didn't really do much. no negotiations. we made a very good offer, better than comps and we look good on papers, our finances are in place. we were talking about this just this wknd, next time, we wont hire a realtor.

we'll get a lawyer to write the contract. thats it.

during the last RE purchase, the idiot we worked with would be flabbergasted that we wouldn't even want to see some house she was suggesting and rejecting it outright. i'd point to the map and list the reasons why i didn't want to waste my time - close to a railway line, freeway, or that the backyard was overlooking another property, or it was too close to a power line. i told her with all these tools there is no reason to waste time on properties that are never going to make the shortlist.

idk how will you react when i tell you this. our realtor didnt even send us listings. WE sent her listings we were interested in. She used to gather info about them like comps and she'd call the listing agent to take appointment for us and show us the houses we liked.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:31 am

seven wrote:
so get it re-financed. talk to your bank and reduce the total loan amount. when market crashed after 2008, our friends negotiated with bank and their total loan was $630K and they brought it down to $590K. Their house is now $850K. They recently bought a new house (only 2 miles away from our new house yay! ) and not selling the first one. bcz once Apple comes there, the house price will go even higher. They rented it out for 14 months $-)$-)

are you sad now to be not living in california

What is the gas price and how many miles do you drive each way?

Let me see...you pay a mortgage of close to $3000 to $4000 /month for 10 years to gain $600,000 (but spending some 450,000 extra mortgage).

Lady...life is a zero-sum game.

by Kris Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:58 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
seven wrote:
so get it re-financed. talk to your bank and reduce the total loan amount. when market crashed after 2008, our friends negotiated with bank and their total loan was $630K and they brought it down to $590K. Their house is now $850K. They recently bought a new house (only 2 miles away from our new house yay! ) and not selling the first one. bcz once Apple comes there, the house price will go even higher. They rented it out for 14 months $-)$-)

are you sad now to be not living in california

What is the gas price and how many miles do you drive each way?

Let me see...you pay a mortgage of close to $3000 to $4000 /month for 10 years to gain $600,000 (but spending some 450,000 extra mortgage).

Lady...life is a zero-sum game.

>>>It is in the timing. If the location is right, the rent you get can cover the mortgage. You just sit tight till the market is at the point where you want to sell.

by Guest Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:31 am

As a buyer I would waive loan and appraisal contingency. But inspection contingency? Na-ah. Did I read this right? What if they stick me a termite infestation? Does CA really have this much seller-dadagiri?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:42 am

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:As a buyer I would waive loan and appraisal contingency. But inspection contingency? Na-ah. Did I read this right? What if they stick me a termite infestation? Does CA really have this much seller-dadagiri?

You are missing one point here:

Loan Contingency is say June 27 and closing date is July 5.

If you dont withdraw by june 27, you better have your loan approval ready with cash on July 5. Or else, you lose your downpayment.

I did not know the east coast process and sat on the application for 1 week and wasted my time. Lesson learnt. Lost 120K and also to own a unit in one of bestest areas/street in Boston.

Money and I dont go together. I should start developing interest in making money and become like the Looters.

Lakshmi Devi smiles only at people who are interested in her. So first things first.

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