the searing hypocrisy of the west

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:15 pm

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece?utm_source=vuukle&utm_medium=plugin&utm_campaign=vuukle_referral

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece?utm_source=vuukle&utm_medium=plugin&utm_campaign=vuukle_referral

No hypocricy of the west here...

All Palestinians have to do is to recognize Israel and its right to exist and shake Israel's ever extended hand. Land, settlement etc can all be discussed and debated once the basic relationship and trust are established.

If Israel wanted, it could have wiped out West bank and Gaza in no time. That in itself shows they are interested in eliminating the palestinians.

So,

Recognize iSrael

Accept its right to exist.

Stop listening to Syria, Saudi, and Egyptian mullahs and follow their own policies of self interest

Quit harping on Al Aqsa mosque - that thing came only 1500 years ago...and no iSraeli wants to occupy that dome.

Stop demanding jerusalem.. harping on something that is a certain loser is indicative of confrontation.

Palestinians have listened to their Muslim brethren for 70 years and NOTHING good has happened to them...N A D A...

They better show they can think independently and for themselves.

If anything the hypocricy is on the part of palestinians and iSlamists world wide. Dont burn a train or kill teenagers....then there is no reason for anyone to retaliate.

by truthbetold Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:33 pm

Max
what are your thoughts on this situation?

by Hellsangel Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:03 pm

Susan Abulhawa

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:07 pm

Hellsangel wrote:Susan Abulhawa

so?

by Hellsangel Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Susan Abulhawa

so?

Self-explanatory.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:36 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:Susan Abulhawa

so?
Self-explanatory.

really? so jews writing in support of israel, wall streeters writing in support of less regulation, republicans writing in support of the GoP, basically any group member writing in support of their group's concerns and issues is automatically to be viewed with suspicion? what sort of logic is this? if you disagree with her, why don't you try and refute the actual things she says in her article?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:56 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Stop demanding jerusalem.. harping on something that is a certain loser is indicative of confrontation.

are you going to give yourself the same advice about kashmir?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:59 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

If anything the hypocricy is on the part of palestinians and iSlamists world wide. Dont burn a train or kill teenagers....then there is no reason for anyone to retaliate.

what about the american govt, especially the previous administration that on the one hand talked about wanting to plant the seeds of democracy in far away places while also propping up totalitarian regimes like saudi arabia?

by confuzzled dude Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:25 pm

No age-old conflict
"The fact is that both the West and the Gulf Arabs are doing more. They continue to finance the jihadi rebels in Syria (all promises of vetting by the U.S. are comical), and they continue to see the Assad government as an obstacle to peace in the region. Both the West and the Gulf Arabs suggest that the terrorism that they dislike against themselves is acceptable to others. The history of their policies also suggests that Western and Gulf Arab intervention leads inexorably to the creation of police states (as in Egypt) and terrorist emirates. A lack of basic commitment to people’s movements — anchored in unions and in civic groups — will always lead to such diabolical outcomes."

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-geopolitics-of-the-islamic-state/article6170651.ece?homepage=true

-> Thought this fits better in this thread than a separate one.

by confuzzled dude Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:29 pm

Wonder recent events that took place in Syria & Iraq by ISIS made Israel a nervous wreck; statements issued by Netanyahu resembled more of a terrorist leader than a democratically elected responsible leader.

by truthbetold Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:07 pm

Max
Since you posted this article and failed to state your own comment on the article, can we assume you support Susan's viewpoint?

by nevada Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:57 pm

Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:15 am

truthbetold wrote:Max
Since you posted this article and failed to state your own comment on the article, can we assume you support Susan's viewpoint?

it's hardly necessary to write endorsements of statements of fact.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:10 am

nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:22 am

typical muslim world justification to atrocities they commit. I bet this woman would justify all the PLO bombings and hamas rockets and terrorist activities. pakistan should hire her to write articles on why they're right in sponsoring terrorist attacks on indian cities. lastly the tamils should hire her to excuse LTTE posthumously

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:53 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:typical muslim world justification to atrocities they commit. I bet this woman would justify all the PLO bombings and hamas rockets and terrorist activities. pakistan should hire her to write articles on why they're right in sponsoring terrorist attacks on indian cities. lastly the tamils should hire her to excuse LTTE posthumously

where is she doing that? did i miss something?

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:58 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:typical muslim world justification to atrocities they commit. I bet this woman would justify all the PLO bombings and hamas rockets and terrorist activities. pakistan should hire her to write articles on why they're right in sponsoring terrorist attacks on indian cities. lastly the tamils should hire her to excuse LTTE posthumously

where is she doing that? did i miss something?

you should read the wiki on her writings that HA posted

by nevada Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:19 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:
nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.

No man, palestine is one case where muslims have a genuine greivance. I am no blind apologist for muslim attacks and am not blind to the israelites' apartheid practices and misdeeds either

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:20 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:typical muslim world justification to atrocities they commit. I bet this woman would justify all the PLO bombings and hamas rockets and terrorist activities. pakistan should hire her to write articles on why they're right in sponsoring terrorist attacks on indian cities. lastly the tamils should hire her to excuse LTTE posthumously

where is she doing that? did i miss something?

you should read the wiki on her writings that HA posted

i did and i didn't see her justifying any terrorism.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:22 am

nevada wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.
No man, palestine is one case where muslims have a genuine greivance. I am no blind apologist for muslim attacks and am not blind to the israelites' apartheid practices and misdeeds either

the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

by nevada Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:58 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
nevada wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.
No man, palestine is one case where muslims have a genuine greivance. I am no blind apologist for muslim attacks and am not blind to the israelites' apartheid practices and misdeeds either

the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

Yup, that is what it is.

by smArtha Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:39 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

+1

However, we should know that both sides are responsible for giving it a religious hue and trying to exploit religious groups and associations to further their cause.

by rawemotions Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:04 pm

smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

+1

However, we should know that both sides are responsible for giving it a religious hue and trying to exploit religious groups and associations to further their cause.

I don't agree. It is not that simple. It is also about the legitimacy of folks to live on the land that has enormous religious significance for them, and the legitimacy of whether an entire race who were once preponderant in that piece of land, has a right to exist in that land.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:10 pm

rawemotions wrote:
smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

+1

However, we should know that both sides are responsible for giving it a religious hue and trying to exploit religious groups and associations to further their cause.
I don't agree. It is not that simple. It is also about the legitimacy of folks to live on the land that has enormous religious significance for them, and the legitimacy of whether an entire race who were once preponderant in that piece of land, has a right to exist in that land.

how far back do you want to go in terms of reparations?

by truthbetold Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

+1

However, we should know that both sides are responsible for giving it a religious hue and trying to exploit religious groups and associations to further their cause.
I don't agree. It is not that simple. It is also about the legitimacy of folks to live on the land that has enormous religious significance for them, and the legitimacy of whether an entire race who were once preponderant in that piece of land, has a right to exist in that land.

how far back do you want to go in terms of reparations?

they went back approx. a thousand years.

by rawemotions Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:16 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
smArtha wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

+1

However, we should know that both sides are responsible for giving it a religious hue and trying to exploit religious groups and associations to further their cause.
I don't agree. It is not that simple. It is also about the legitimacy of folks to live on the land that has enormous religious significance for them, and the legitimacy of whether an entire race who were once preponderant in that piece of land, has a right to exist in that land.

how far back do you want to go in terms of reparations?

Shall we first agree that you are trivializing a complex issue with multiple dimensions?
a) Israelites are there now, and they have the right to be in that land, as much as palestinians. So it is not just reparations alone that come into picture.
b) The fact that this land is of the highest religious significance for the Jews is not in question.
c) It is not about just a land dispute between the two claimants. It is also about the legitimacy of their right to exist in that land, which is what is being questioned by one of the parties (Hamas/Fatah)
d) One of the extremist party is even questioning the legitimacy of their race itself and their right to exist (Hamas).
e) There is also the complex issue of Palestinians who went out of Israel (called refugees) 60 years ago, and though settled in other countries, they are being used as political football by the Arab countries.

So these are important questions. To Trivialize all these as just land grabbing is just not correct. Land issue is just one of the important questions.

Palestinians are also playing a strange game. Circumstances were being made to give them a country on the West Bank. The world wanted to take (c),(d) out of the picture. At the right moment, dashing all hopes Fatah made a unity government with Hamas, bringing back (c) & (d) into play. Sympathy for Palestinian cause is going down because of this.

Soon the world will get tired. After all, each of the big 6 have their own troubles. At that time, Israelites as always, have to fend for themselves.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:14 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
nevada wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.
No man, palestine is one case where muslims have a genuine greivance. I am no blind apologist for muslim attacks and am not blind to the israelites' apartheid practices and misdeeds either

the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

at the core of america's formation and expansion is land grabbing and mass murder. would you support terrorism by native americans and mexicans?

by Propagandhi711 Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:typical muslim world justification to atrocities they commit. I bet this woman would justify all the PLO bombings and hamas rockets and terrorist activities. pakistan should hire her to write articles on why they're right in sponsoring terrorist attacks on indian cities. lastly the tamils should hire her to excuse LTTE posthumously

where is she doing that? did i miss something?

you should read the wiki on her writings that HA posted

i did and i didn't see her justifying any terrorism.

look deeper into her writings, she has a lot of them online. not all are incendiary but that's the point.

one particular howler:

reorient the Palestinian struggle to align with indigenous struggles — struggles of the marginalized and voiceless — which I consider to be spiritually and politically black because there is no equivalent to the savagery inflicted on the black body over centuries by white supremacy.”

I guess she conveniently forgot that her ancestors were the main peddlers of black slaves and would like to align the palestinian experience with that of indigenous and black people. also claims that south african apartheid was never as bad what what israel is doing to palestinians. you read stuff like this, you start doubting the credibility of rest of hyperbole she's peddling

by confuzzled dude Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
nevada wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.
No man, palestine is one case where muslims have a genuine greivance. I am no blind apologist for muslim attacks and am not blind to the israelites' apartheid practices and misdeeds either

the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

at the core of america's formation and expansion is land grabbing and mass murder. would you support terrorism by native americans and mexicans?

Is America still treating them as second class citizens and screwing them around by putting restrictions on where they can live or can not?

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:06 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
nevada wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
nevada wrote:Atleast in the US the Israelites loot and plunder in a non violent way through sub prime, quantitative easing, financial scams, etc.
In the middle east it looks like they are just barbarian with all those killings, abductions etc. Do they make sure the knives, guns etc are Kosher before carrying out the slaughter? Do they take a break for Shabbath or sharbath whatever it is called when in the midst of a killing spree?

been hanging out with the pakistanis a little too much? careful, their genetic antisemitism and penchant for conspiracy theories can be contagious, I'm told.
No man, palestine is one case where muslims have a genuine greivance. I am no blind apologist for muslim attacks and am not blind to the israelites' apartheid practices and misdeeds either

the palestine - israel problem has taken on religious dimensions, but it's a basic problem about landgrabbing, pure and simple, at its core.

at the core of america's formation and expansion is land grabbing and mass murder. would you support terrorism by native americans and mexicans?

i don't support palestinian or israeli terrorism. so this is a strawman.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:00 pm

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/b-tselem-more-than-50-of-palestinians-killed-in-israel-s-last-gaza-operation-were-civilians.premium-1.522652

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:52 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/05/world/meast/jerusalem-u-s--teen-beaten/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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