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Identity is not always destiny
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Idéfix
nevada
confuzzled dude
7 posters
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Identity is not always destiny
http://www.hindustantimes.com/comment/rajdeepsardesai/identity-is-not-always-destiny/article1-1286214.aspxA simple tweet, all of 140 characters, can be hazardous to one’s health as I have discovered to my cost yet again. Last Sunday, as Narendra Modi went in for his first Cabinet expansion, I tweeted: “Big day for my Goa. Two GSBs, both talented politicians, become full cabinet ministers. Saraswat pride!” I was referring to the induction of Manohar Parrikar and Suresh Prabhu in the Union Cabinet. Rather than see my tweet as a statement of fact, I was accused of being casteist and worse. Typical of the noxious side of social media, I was barraged with abuse and hate mail.
“GSB” refers to the Gaud Saraswat Brahmins, a tiny, but highly progressive community of fish-eating Brahmins that I belong to which nestles along the Konkan coast, across Maharashtra, Goa, through to parts of Karnataka.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Identity is not always destiny
No matter what the intention, it is politically incorrect to publicly flaunt caste in India - unless you are a SC/ST. It was a poor choice of words by Rajdeep.
nevada- Posts : 1831
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Agreed, especially for a journalist to bring caste angle is a big no.nevada wrote:No matter what the intention, it is politically incorrect to publicly flaunt caste in India - unless you are a SC/ST. It was a poor choice of words by Rajdeep.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Identity is not always destiny
The fact is that Sardesai's message had a casteist tone to it.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Idéfix wrote:The fact is that Sardesai's message had a casteist tone to it.
It has a casteist tone because he is a casteist. Many people are casteist without knowing that they are casteist..
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
Ponniyin Selvan- Posts : 450
Join date : 2011-08-05
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Merlot Daruwala- Posts : 5005
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Identity is not always destiny
PS: Everything can be strung into casteism or PCism. The smart ones dont mention it - does not one an emancipated person.
People are overly insecure, incompetent, and casteiest and hide all this in the name of "sensititivity"
These days one cannot call a criminal, murderer, Wall Street Looters - even if they are convicted - using their newly earned credentials. Similarly, if someone is truly brilliant, you cannot call him that too - for it will bring out a whole set of new enemies for him/her.
People are overly insecure, incompetent, and casteiest and hide all this in the name of "sensititivity"
These days one cannot call a criminal, murderer, Wall Street Looters - even if they are convicted - using their newly earned credentials. Similarly, if someone is truly brilliant, you cannot call him that too - for it will bring out a whole set of new enemies for him/her.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Identity is not always destiny
While I agree with you that a portion of the cabinet selection is to appease certain segments of the population, but I wonder, in this case whether dormant Brahmin supremacist view had more to do with his tweet. Till our generation, majority of the Brahmins used to look down at other caste people as uneducated country bums (which was true as majority weren't educated). Would he have expressed similar view in late '40s or '50s when Nehrus, Gopalacharis, Radhakrishnans, Praksham Pantulus and PVNs were ruling the roost? About your other point about merit, personally I do not believe that IIT or Harvard educated individuals make good politicians in India unless they came up through the ranks, otherwise they're clueless and completely devoid of ground realities, you don't need to look farther than Subramanian Swamy, Jairam Ramesh or Tharoors of the world.Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Identity is not always destiny
CDconfuzzled dude wrote:While I agree with you that a portion of the cabinet selection is to appease certain segments of the population, but I wonder, in this case whether dormant Brahmin supremacist view had more to do with his tweet. Till our generation, majority of the Brahmins used to look down at other caste people as uneducated country bums (which was true as majority weren't educated). Would he have expressed similar view in late '40s or '50s when Nehrus, Gopalacharis, Radhakrishnans, Praksham Pantulus and PVNs were ruling the roost? About your other point about merit, personally I do not believe that IIT or Harvard educated individuals make good politicians in India unless they came up through the ranks, otherwise they're clueless and completely devoid of ground realities, you don't need to look farther than Subramanian Swamy, Jairam Ramesh or Tharoors of the world.Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Your post makes sense. Just want to expand the idea with successful brahmin politicos ABV, PVN and ramkrishna hegde in the last few decades.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Like CD pointed out, I guess around 90% of chief ministers / central ministers and government officials are from very few numerically insignificant communities in the early 50s until 80s.. So do you claim that merit was rewarded till 80s and only later caste got into the picture?. If so, based on the growth numbers I think we should discard merit and go for caste appeasement. :-)
Ponniyin Selvan- Posts : 450
Join date : 2011-08-05
Re: Identity is not always destiny
confuzzled dude wrote:While I agree with you that a portion of the cabinet selection is to appease certain segments of the population, but I wonder, in this case whether dormant Brahmin supremacist view had more to do with his tweet. Till our generation, majority of the Brahmins used to look down at other caste people as uneducated country bums (which was true as majority weren't educated). Would he have expressed similar view in late '40s or '50s when Nehrus, Gopalacharis, Radhakrishnans, Praksham Pantulus and PVNs were ruling the roost? About your other point about merit, personally I do not believe that IIT or Harvard educated individuals make good politicians in India unless they came up through the ranks, otherwise they're clueless and completely devoid of ground realities, you don't need to look farther than Subramanian Swamy, Jairam Ramesh or Tharoors of the world.Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Ok, why is Arun Jaitley in the cabinet?
Merlot Daruwala- Posts : 5005
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Not sure If I understood your point. I've said this before about Jaitely, to make someone who lost elections a cabinet minister is a bad idea.Merlot Daruwala wrote:confuzzled dude wrote:While I agree with you that a portion of the cabinet selection is to appease certain segments of the population, but I wonder, in this case whether dormant Brahmin supremacist view had more to do with his tweet. Till our generation, majority of the Brahmins used to look down at other caste people as uneducated country bums (which was true as majority weren't educated). Would he have expressed similar view in late '40s or '50s when Nehrus, Gopalacharis, Radhakrishnans, Praksham Pantulus and PVNs were ruling the roost? About your other point about merit, personally I do not believe that IIT or Harvard educated individuals make good politicians in India unless they came up through the ranks, otherwise they're clueless and completely devoid of ground realities, you don't need to look farther than Subramanian Swamy, Jairam Ramesh or Tharoors of the world.Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Ok, why is Arun Jaitley in the cabinet?
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Identity is not always destiny
confuzzled dude wrote:Not sure If I understood your point. I've said this before about Jaitely, to make someone who lost elections a cabinet minister is a bad idea.Merlot Daruwala wrote:confuzzled dude wrote:While I agree with you that a portion of the cabinet selection is to appease certain segments of the population, but I wonder, in this case whether dormant Brahmin supremacist view had more to do with his tweet. Till our generation, majority of the Brahmins used to look down at other caste people as uneducated country bums (which was true as majority weren't educated). Would he have expressed similar view in late '40s or '50s when Nehrus, Gopalacharis, Radhakrishnans, Praksham Pantulus and PVNs were ruling the roost? About your other point about merit, personally I do not believe that IIT or Harvard educated individuals make good politicians in India unless they came up through the ranks, otherwise they're clueless and completely devoid of ground realities, you don't need to look farther than Subramanian Swamy, Jairam Ramesh or Tharoors of the world.Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
He assumes that if a Yadav or a Dalit gets into the ministry it is because of his caste while other Saraswat Brahmins get into the cabinet it is because of merit.
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Ok, why is Arun Jaitley in the cabinet?
Sure. So why did politically astute Modi pick this electoral turkey?
Merlot Daruwala- Posts : 5005
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Merlot Daruwala wrote:confuzzled dude wrote:Not sure If I understood your point. I've said this before about Jaitely, to make someone who lost elections a cabinet minister is a bad idea.Merlot Daruwala wrote:confuzzled dude wrote:While I agree with you that a portion of the cabinet selection is to appease certain segments of the population, but I wonder, in this case whether dormant Brahmin supremacist view had more to do with his tweet. Till our generation, majority of the Brahmins used to look down at other caste people as uneducated country bums (which was true as majority weren't educated). Would he have expressed similar view in late '40s or '50s when Nehrus, Gopalacharis, Radhakrishnans, Praksham Pantulus and PVNs were ruling the roost? About your other point about merit, personally I do not believe that IIT or Harvard educated individuals make good politicians in India unless they came up through the ranks, otherwise they're clueless and completely devoid of ground realities, you don't need to look farther than Subramanian Swamy, Jairam Ramesh or Tharoors of the world.Merlot Daruwala wrote:
That's how cabinets get defined - to appease electorally significant segments. When someone with no electoral benefit gets appointed, it's fair to assume there was some other consideration. He assumes it is merit (given the IIT backgrounds) and that doesn't make him casteist. If you has a better explanation for the induction of those two, pls share it.
Ok, why is Arun Jaitley in the cabinet?
Sure. So why did politically astute Modi pick this electoral turkey?
I've no idea Merlot; but some thought because he is a technocrat of some sort.
https://such.forumotion.com/t23864-is-the-most-powerful-man-in-india-after-modi-going-to-be-a-upwalah
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Identity is not always destiny
Cmon CD, you are a thinking man.. surely *you * must have some theory of your own too.
Merlot Daruwala- Posts : 5005
Join date : 2011-04-29
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