MaxEntropy_Man wrote:continuing the conversation from yesterday...

CM doesn't have an iota of departure from established practice, even of the kind i think would be acceptable to the establishment -- translating secular epics like the silappadikAram and manimEgalai into music. BN can take credit for doing this and in more recent years looking to modern novels (can't believe i am referring to a mid twentieth century novel as modern, but this is the mylapore establishment we are talking about!) like sivagAmiyin sabatham for source material.  this could easily be a first step in CM before exploring other kinds of more drastic heterodoxy, of the savitha sastry kind.

to be honest, CM was all around me in my youth, but i didn't pay much attention to it. i am sure it was because i always associated it with religion which at best only held marginal interest. it was only well into adulthood, in grad school of all places when i was seeking a connection to what i had left behind, that i learned to look past the themes themselves and learned to appreciate music for music's sake, when i truly fell in love with CM.  but i think the time is well past for some changes to become acceptable, but i am afraid departure from divinity as the source for inspiration will not be easy.  

then there is the view that it doesn't matter because music is pure sound, just like there is a view that dance is pure movement. but i find this unacceptable.  enjoyment of the poetry in composed vocal music is a good part of the pleasure of CM for me. it is ironic that as i've moved further and further away from religion, the compositions themselves never fail to move me. how can one not be moved by the total surrender and overflowing love resulting in melting poetry, even it is aimed at an abstruse entity!

bw wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

bw wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

As you can see from Maria's expert response on BN in the above, this particular dance / song (sorry, I can't find the English subtitles for lyrics) has several important BN features (among other things, the use of "naanam" and other facial / eyes related emotions by the dancer / singer). I was waiting for some person with the actual BN experience to put down the info. here, which Maria finally did and thanks to her for that.

oh, all you wanted was someone who has "actual" BN experience, as in 'learning' for a few years?  me me me! i qualify too and based on my years of learning (that too at the centre of this BN business), i declare that those two videos you posted have nothing to do with BN.  

by the way, am a more reliable expert on this.

There is a basic difference in your thinking on BN and my view of BN. You see BN only as that taught in the dance class (dance and song routines during learning initially, and nothing more). To me, BN not only includes those initial dances and songs in the learning class / stage, but also their applications later to create more complex numbers (songs / dances).

It looks like the real English for you probably means only the alphabet (letters "a" through "z", which you learnt in the beginning in the English class), whereas the words created by using those alphabet (letters "a" through "z") are not the true English according to you.

you are claiming all languages that use an alphabet are based on english just because english has an alphabet. incidentally, why did you choose BN and not kathak?

by the way, i wouldn't call these 'more complex' numbers. this is like saying a trashy novel that has a few lines from shakespeare is a 'complex' version of shakespeare.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:g_k -- it's possible you misunderstood me. i am not saying the divine has to be explicitly done away with on the concert stage, but it would be nice to add to it.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:continuing the conversation from yesterday...

CM doesn't have an iota of departure from established practice, even of the kind i think would be acceptable to the establishment -- translating secular epics like the silappadikAram and manimEgalai into music. BN can take credit for doing this and in more recent years looking to modern novels (can't believe i am referring to a mid twentieth century novel as modern, but this is the mylapore establishment we are talking about!) like sivagAmiyin sabatham for source material.  this could easily be a first step in CM before exploring other kinds of more drastic heterodoxy, of the savitha sastry kind.

to be honest, CM was all around me in my youth, but i didn't pay much attention to it. i am sure it was because i always associated it with religion which at best only held marginal interest. it was only well into adulthood, in grad school of all places when i was seeking a connection to what i had left behind, that i learned to look past the themes themselves and learned to appreciate music for music's sake, when i truly fell in love with CM.  but i think the time is well past for some changes to become acceptable, but i am afraid departure from divinity as the source for inspiration will not be easy.  

then there is the view that it doesn't matter because music is pure sound, just like there is a view that dance is pure movement. but i find this unacceptable.  enjoyment of the poetry in composed vocal music is a good part of the pleasure of CM for me. it is ironic that as i've moved further and further away from religion, the compositions themselves never fail to move me. how can one not be moved by the total surrender and overflowing love resulting in melting poetry, even it is aimed at an abstruse entity!