Hellsangel wrote:http://www.timesofindia.com/india/Kolkata-flyover-collapse/liveblog/51630254.cms

Kinnera wrote:Brie, I am reading that the flyover was started waay back in 2007, and after some construction, funds were cut off and the work was stopped. Now it's been resumed after five years or so because of elections and didi wanted it to be all done before the elections. The iron was all rusted, I believe and the work was rushed. That could have caused the collapse. Who is to blame here? The politicians or the construction company?

brie wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Brie, I am reading that the flyover was started waay back in 2007, and after some construction, funds were cut off and the work was stopped. Now it's been resumed after five years or so because of elections and didi wanted it to be all done before the elections. The iron was all rusted, I believe and the work was rushed. That could have caused the collapse. Who is to blame here? The politicians or the construction company?

kinns both are to blame.

first facts:

- it is not that work was resumed after a gap of 5/6 years. work was always going on and sometimes in fits and starts. remember, because of the congestion, they were permitted to work only between 11 pm and 5 pm (only 6 hours a day). often the delay was because of calcutta municipal dev. authority (cmda) and state govt (clearances not obtained and lackadaisical defence in civil courts against petitions from houses affected). ivrcl is not to blame here -- their repeated pleas for enhancement and escalation were rejected. add to the fact that they ust have been subjected to extortion by corrupt cmda (which i will hazard they must have factored in their price -- but not thinking they'd have to pay for 9 years -- and compiled with).

ivrcl's faults:

- my engineer commented, "looking at these pictures, it seems the girders were way less in mm thickness than stipulated. they are not supposed to twist like plastic like these!"

- ivrcl is a rogue company. they have been blacklisted by other state bodies.

cmda and didi fault:

- cmda should have blacklisted ivrcl following other govt. bodies or kept strict vigilance on them.

- why has didi not arrested any cmda employee? why do they stand exonerated? they were the PRINCIPAL contractors!

why did it collapse? -

- it collapsed moments after they had fully casted a section (#60). evidently the iron frame could not support it. the frame was newly installed -- it was not old/rusted.

brie wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Brie, I am reading that the flyover was started waay back in 2007, and after some construction, funds were cut off and the work was stopped. Now it's been resumed after five years or so because of elections and didi wanted it to be all done before the elections. The iron was all rusted, I believe and the work was rushed. That could have caused the collapse. Who is to blame here? The politicians or the construction company?

kinns both are to blame.

first facts:

- it is not that work was resumed after a gap of 5/6 years. work was always going on and sometimes in fits and starts. remember, because of the congestion, they were permitted to work only between 11 pm and 5 pm (only 6 hours a day). often the delay was because of calcutta municipal dev. authority (cmda) and state govt (clearances not obtained and lackadaisical defence in civil courts against petitions from houses affected). ivrcl is not to blame here -- their repeated pleas for enhancement and escalation were rejected. add to the fact that they ust have been subjected to extortion by corrupt cmda (which i will hazard they must have factored in their price -- but not thinking they'd have to pay for 9 years -- and compiled with).

ivrcl's faults:

- my engineer commented, "looking at these pictures, it seems the girders were way less in mm thickness than stipulated. they are not supposed to twist like plastic like these!"

- ivrcl is a rogue company. they have been blacklisted by other state bodies.

cmda and didi fault:

- cmda should have blacklisted ivrcl following other govt. bodies or kept strict vigilance on them.

- why has didi not arrested any cmda employee? why do they stand exonerated? they were the PRINCIPAL contractors!

why did it collapse? -

- it collapsed moments after they had fully casted a section (#60). evidently the iron frame could not support it. the frame was newly installed -- it was not old/rusted.

brie wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Brie, I am reading that the flyover was started waay back in 2007, and after some construction, funds were cut off and the work was stopped. Now it's been resumed after five years or so because of elections and didi wanted it to be all done before the elections. The iron was all rusted, I believe and the work was rushed. That could have caused the collapse. Who is to blame here? The politicians or the construction company?

kinns both are to blame.

first facts:

- it is not that work was resumed after a gap of 5/6 years. work was always going on and sometimes in fits and starts. remember, because of the congestion, they were permitted to work only between 11 pm and 5 pm (only 6 hours a day). often the delay was because of calcutta municipal dev. authority (cmda) and state govt (clearances not obtained and lackadaisical defence in civil courts against petitions from houses affected). ivrcl is not to blame here -- their repeated pleas for enhancement and escalation were rejected. add to the fact that they ust have been subjected to extortion by corrupt cmda (which i will hazard they must have factored in their price -- but not thinking they'd have to pay for 9 years -- and compiled with).

ivrcl's faults:

- my engineer commented, "looking at these pictures, it seems the girders were way less in mm thickness than stipulated. they are not supposed to twist like plastic like these!"

- ivrcl is a rogue company. they have been blacklisted by other state bodies.

cmda and didi fault:

- cmda should have blacklisted ivrcl following other govt. bodies or kept strict vigilance on them.

- why has didi not arrested any cmda employee? why do they stand exonerated? they were the PRINCIPAL contractors!

why did it collapse? -

- it collapsed moments after they had fully casted a section (#60). evidently the iron frame could not support it. the frame was newly installed -- it was not old/rusted.

Kinnera wrote:

A similar such incident happened in Hyderabad pretty recently (the punjagutta flyover collapse). A newly constructed/under construction flyover came crashing down, killing the poor people underneath it. The reason sited for it is: The waterworks department dug some water lines close to the flyover. One the huge pipes was cracked and the constant leakage of water from the pipe soaked up the foundation of flyover pillar, making the soil loose and causing the flyover to collapse. I am sure no one was held responsible. The public forgot about the incident and went on with their lives. 
I hope the people responsible for the Kolkata crash will not get away so easily.

Brie, thanks for the feedback and your perspective. Corruption, greed, inefficiency, apathy, etc took the lives of so many innocents so horrifically. It's all very sad. I hope that everyone who is responsible for it is held accountable and such things don't recur in future. But, that may be too much of a wishful thinking. 

Kinnera wrote:Brie, I am reading that the flyover was started waay back in 2007, and after some construction, funds were cut off and the work was stopped. Now it's been resumed after five years or so because of elections and didi wanted it to be all done before the elections. The iron was all rusted, I believe and the work was rushed. That could have caused the collapse. Who is to blame here? The politicians or the construction company?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Brie, I am reading that the flyover was started waay back in 2007, and after some construction, funds were cut off and the work was stopped. Now it's been resumed after five years or so because of elections and didi wanted it to be all done before the elections. The iron was all rusted, I believe and the work was rushed. That could have caused the collapse. Who is to blame here? The politicians or the construction company?

Exactly... Did wanted it done before the elections, and as it always happens when the CM and Govt wants all rules, regulations, and inspections are violated (Waived).

And, NOTHING will come out of it. threats of arrests and charges are made so that the company(ies) will pay/fund the TMC election expenses...

Remember some 60 people died in Madras when a new high rise residential building collapsed (in Poror). aftre a week of hoopla everyone forgot. That famous fatalistic attitude of the Indian (hindu) culture does help overcome tragedies.

P.S. the contractor said immediately "its God's work"  I am curious to know which God and whose God.

brie wrote:

and the sort of bribes this tmc govt.'s henchmen seek (officers of state bodies) would make your eyes pop out. mind boggling numbers. my man went for a simple mutation yesterday; a perfectly legal mutation for a property i had recently acquired. 3 lacs! the last time i got a mutation done during cpim rule cost me rs 15k.

Kinnera wrote:Is there anything that can be done to change the situation or does this have to go on? What is the solution?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Is there anything that can be done to change the situation or does this have to go on? What is the solution?

Please forward your suggesti9ons and plans to Modiji.Bharat@facebook.com and it will be done.

Thanks on behalf of all Indians.

Kinnera wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Is there anything that can be done to change the situation or does this have to go on? What is the solution?

Please forward your suggesti9ons and plans to Modiji.Bharat@facebook.com and it will be done.

Thanks on behalf of all Indians.

I was talking to a cousin in India about this and expressed my anguish about the corruption everywhere in India, the apathy of the public and then how no one will be held accountable/punished when such incidents happen and how they fade away from the public memory and nobody cares and that such incidents keep happening over and over again, etc. Cousin's response: It's all because of overpopulation. There's no solution to this. 

I was like hmmm....is there really nothing that can be done? Throw your gnyanam, swamiji.

brie wrote:and my friend posts on facebook:

Meghna Mathur wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kinnera wrote:Is there anything that can be done to change the situation or does this have to go on? What is the solution?

Please forward your suggesti9ons and plans to Modiji.Bharat@facebook.com and it will be done.

Thanks on behalf of all Indians.

I was talking to a cousin in India about this and expressed my anguish about the corruption everywhere in India, the apathy of the public and then how no one will be held accountable/punished when such incidents happen and how they fade away from the public memory and nobody cares and that such incidents keep happening over and over again, etc. Cousin's response: It's all because of overpopulation. There's no solution to this. 

I was like hmmm....is there really nothing that can be done? Throw your gnyanam, swamiji.

i r'ber my social science teacher in 8th grade explaining this to us. how the 3 factors are responsible for india's problems, and how it's hard to solve one issue without the other two being resolved, and that was the catch.

population
illiteracy
i think the 3rd was infrastructure (I thought i had all the 3 in my head when i started to reply on this post, but a complete blank right now)

oh, and i think of that teacher often in terms of perspective. We were 13 at the time, and she was 29. She turned 30 while we were still in her class, and also got married. She used to look so happy at the time, especially when she just returned from her honeymoon, smiling all the time as e'one congratulated her, and I would internally go, 'yuck, what's even the point of marrying THAT OLD'.