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Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
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Marathadi-Saamiyaar
Merlot Daruwala
Idéfix
Hellsangel
Maria S
Impedimenta
10 posters
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Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Yes indeedio. In particular, if Palestinians had embarked on the "Gandhi strategy" of civil disobedience I think things possibly could be very different...
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/why-civil-resistance-trumps-violent-uprisings/
I have just always thought that if they had fought back, for example, sitting in the streets in front of Israeli tanks in protest and stopped the guerrilla warfare altogether, they may have been more successful. It is certainly a complicated issue. Some of the issues include the vast disagreements within the Palestinian citizens about the correct course of action and the lack of a charismatic leader who is capable of pushing for non-violent protests.
To my knowledge, a mass wide-scale, completely non-violent civil disobedience protest has not been attempted before the erection of the wall. the situation there is just tragic for so many people. simply tragic!
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/why-civil-resistance-trumps-violent-uprisings/
I have just always thought that if they had fought back, for example, sitting in the streets in front of Israeli tanks in protest and stopped the guerrilla warfare altogether, they may have been more successful. It is certainly a complicated issue. Some of the issues include the vast disagreements within the Palestinian citizens about the correct course of action and the lack of a charismatic leader who is capable of pushing for non-violent protests.
To my knowledge, a mass wide-scale, completely non-violent civil disobedience protest has not been attempted before the erection of the wall. the situation there is just tragic for so many people. simply tragic!
Impedimenta- Posts : 2791
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
That's what I used to think too..that Gandhiji kind/MLK kind of charismatic figure who can lead non-violent protests will work everywhere..I have changed my mind..it will work in some places and will never in some places.
With Israel it will not work, as long as they have the unconditional support of US.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Maria S wrote:
With Israel it will not work, as long as they have the unconditional support of US.
Are you encouraging more violence in the Middle East?
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Hellsangel wrote:
Are you encouraging more violence in the Middle East?
How odd to take it that way. No, I don't encourage violence against the Palestinians by the Israelis or violence against the Israelis by any other country.
Only thing one can do hope for good diplomatic negotiations, and will pray a lot for the Palestinians..that they will have their own state..and somehow both nations can co-exist.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
This movie "The Other Son"- think it will be released in Oct, is beginning to have some buzz in social media..seems like it's well made..can be appealing to both sides.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Maria S wrote:This movie "The Other Son"- to be released in Oct, is beginning to have some buzz in social media..seems like it's well made..can be appealing to both sides.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
I think the non violent method can work with Israel but I can't picture the Palestinians coming around to that political viewpoint. You need a strong leader with a lot of moral authority to make that method appealing to enough people. And too much blood has already been spilled on both sides. If the nonviolent method worked against the apartheid regime I'm South Africa, it can work in Palestine too. I do feel the Palestinians made a huge strategic mistake in the 60s and 70s picking the path of terrorism. Like the Eelam Tamils did a couple of decades later, too.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
panini press wrote:I think the non violent method can work with Israel but I can't picture the Palestinians coming around to that political viewpoint. You need a strong leader with a lot of moral authority to make that method appealing to enough people. And too much blood has already been spilled on both sides. If the nonviolent method worked against the apartheid regime I'm South Africa, it can work in Palestine too. I do feel the Palestinians made a huge strategic mistake in the 60s and 70s picking the path of terrorism. Like the Eelam Tamils did a couple of decades later, too.
You are bigger Optimist and a dreamer than I am:)
Seriously, hope you are right and I am wrong in this one..
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Maria S wrote:panini press wrote:I think the non violent method can work with Israel but I can't picture the Palestinians coming around to that political viewpoint. You need a strong leader with a lot of moral authority to make that method appealing to enough people. And too much blood has already been spilled on both sides. If the nonviolent method worked against the apartheid regime I'm South Africa, it can work in Palestine too. I do feel the Palestinians made a huge strategic mistake in the 60s and 70s picking the path of terrorism. Like the Eelam Tamils did a couple of decades later, too.
You are bigger Optimist and a dreamer than I am:)
Seriously, hope you are right and I am wrong in this one..
For once, I think Maria is being more realistic here. Unlike the Brits in India or the Afrikaaners in SA, the Israelis view this as a zero sum game. Ceding to the Palestinians, they fear, would only lead to further demands for concessions and eventually destroy their nation. In their beseiged state of mind, they are not going to cede anything to the Palestinians no matter what strategy is deployed against them.
Merlot Daruwala- Posts : 5005
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
[quote="Merlot Daruwala
For once, I think Maria is being more realistic here. Unlike the Brits in India or the Afrikaaners in SA, the Israelis view this as a zero sum game. Ceding to the Palestinians, they fear, would only lead to further demands for concessions and eventually destroy their nation. In their beseiged state of mind, they are not going to cede anything to the Palestinians no matter what strategy is deployed against them.[/quote]
For once? Well, there is first time for everything, or once in a lifetime for anything!
Thanks a lot:)
Anyone who is objective can see..I may not be brutal or seem hopeless..but, what I say is as real as it gets, have never denied/mislead anyone in real life or virtual life..when it comes to "harsh realities" of situations or life in general.
For once, I think Maria is being more realistic here. Unlike the Brits in India or the Afrikaaners in SA, the Israelis view this as a zero sum game. Ceding to the Palestinians, they fear, would only lead to further demands for concessions and eventually destroy their nation. In their beseiged state of mind, they are not going to cede anything to the Palestinians no matter what strategy is deployed against them.[/quote]
For once? Well, there is first time for everything, or once in a lifetime for anything!
Thanks a lot:)
Anyone who is objective can see..I may not be brutal or seem hopeless..but, what I say is as real as it gets, have never denied/mislead anyone in real life or virtual life..when it comes to "harsh realities" of situations or life in general.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
I agree, when it comes to what is possible now, nonviolent resistance isn't just on the agenda in this conflict, and I don't see it becoming part of it. My speculation is more of a "what if" of history. I wonder how things might have turned out for the Palestinians if they had chosen the course of nonviolent resistance back in the day. My own feeling is that Israel and its lobby in the US would have found it a lot harder to ignore the plight of the Palestinians under the easy argument of "Israel's security is jeopardized the moment we give them anything." In that sense, I see the nonviolent approach as more of a lost opportunity than a realistic future opportunity for the Palestinians.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Simple Give the terrorists an inch and soon you will end up ceding them a mile.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Yeah, that's what I meant by "easy argument."Hellsangel wrote:Simple Give the terrorists an inch and soon you will end up ceding them a mile.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Sorry ...all of you who are blaming the Israelis here are wrong.....
The reason the Palestinians will never win is bcz of the other Arabs - Syria, Saudis, Iraq, and the iSalamis iran, Pakisatan, etc...- who think of Palestinains as an inferior Arab, expecting them to listen to the superior Arabs.
Israel has numerous times offered a 2-nation solution and the Arabs responded by waging a war in 1967 and 1973.
The day Palestinian independence becomes a reality (it will never happen), Israel will be mortally threatened. The Mahamad-supporting- Fashionados will love this to happen as it fits their "appease the aggressor" metality.
The reason the Palestinians will never win is bcz of the other Arabs - Syria, Saudis, Iraq, and the iSalamis iran, Pakisatan, etc...- who think of Palestinains as an inferior Arab, expecting them to listen to the superior Arabs.
Israel has numerous times offered a 2-nation solution and the Arabs responded by waging a war in 1967 and 1973.
The day Palestinian independence becomes a reality (it will never happen), Israel will be mortally threatened. The Mahamad-supporting- Fashionados will love this to happen as it fits their "appease the aggressor" metality.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Impedimenta wrote:Yes indeedio. In particular, if Palestinians had embarked on the "Gandhi strategy" of civil disobedience I think things possibly could be very different...
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/why-civil-resistance-trumps-violent-uprisings/
I have just always thought that if they had fought back, for example, sitting in the streets in front of Israeli tanks in protest and stopped the guerrilla warfare altogether, they may have been more successful. It is certainly a complicated issue. Some of the issues include the vast disagreements within the Palestinian citizens about the correct course of action and the lack of a charismatic leader who is capable of pushing for non-violent protests.
To my knowledge, a mass wide-scale, completely non-violent civil disobedience protest has not been attempted before the erection of the wall. the situation there is just tragic for so many people. simply tragic!
Gandhi strategy will work only against oppressors who follow a semblence of judicial system and at least a diluted sense of law - even if biased. Gandhi himself said this. This would not have worked against the Nazis, Ruskies, chinkus, Iraq and now in Syria or Iran.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
panini press wrote:I agree, when it comes to what is possible now, nonviolent resistance isn't just on the agenda in this conflict, and I don't see it becoming part of it. My speculation is more of a "what if" of history. I wonder how things might have turned out for the Palestinians if they had chosen the course of nonviolent resistance back in the day. My own feeling is that Israel and its lobby in the US would have found it a lot harder to ignore the plight of the Palestinians under the easy argument of "Israel's security is jeopardized the moment we give them anything." In that sense, I see the nonviolent approach as more of a lost opportunity than a realistic future opportunity for the Palestinians.
>>>>The thing that would have thrown a monkey wrench into it, even if the palestinians had wanted to go the non-violent route, is the other arabs who very much would have wanted the fight. The problem is that those guys won't leave well enough alone, even if a solution is worked out now. This is just going to be a perpetual problem.
Kris- Posts : 5460
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Impedimenta wrote:Yes indeedio. In particular, if Palestinians had embarked on the "Gandhi strategy" of civil disobedience I think things possibly could be very different...
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/19/why-civil-resistance-trumps-violent-uprisings/
I have just always thought that if they had fought back, for example, sitting in the streets in front of Israeli tanks in protest and stopped the guerrilla warfare altogether, they may have been more successful. It is certainly a complicated issue. Some of the issues include the vast disagreements within the Palestinian citizens about the correct course of action and the lack of a charismatic leader who is capable of pushing for non-violent protests.
To my knowledge, a mass wide-scale, completely non-violent civil disobedience protest has not been attempted before the erection of the wall. the situation there is just tragic for so many people. simply tragic!
Gandhi strategy will work only against oppressors who follow a semblence of judicial system and at least a diluted sense of law - even if biased. Gandhi himself said this. This would not have worked against the Nazis, Ruskies, chinkus, Iraq and now in Syria or Iran.
Yes woulda worked in Sri Lanka for sure...but your belligerentan brotherans chose the bellicosan way and went the way of the palestinianans
Propagandhi711- Posts : 6941
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Yes woulda worked in Sri Lanka for sure...but your belligerentan brotherans chose the bellicosan way and went the way of the palestinianans
It definitely would have worked in SL. The TULF was a political wing that was the main opposition party in the late 70s which followed non-violence. It would have been distantly possible that a Chech-Slovakian model or an Northern Ireland model could have been worked out.
But the Butcheran killed the TULF assassinating its leaders early on and killed the rest of the militant groups (some 15 of them) to become the master terrorist by late 80s. If you were to look at the list of militant groups LTTE was one of the smaller, more violent one among the 15 otehrs - EPRF, EPLOTE, EPRLF, Plote, and so on... (the list used to resemble like DK, DMK, MDMK, AIADMK, TMK, etc...in TN).
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
>> Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
What is your basis for saying civil resistance trumps violent uprising?
What is your basis for saying civil resistance trumps violent uprising?
Kayalvizhi- Posts : 3659
Join date : 2011-05-16
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Who is vaiko? What is he doing in MP? It is getting difficult to keep track of these tn politicians? Whatever happened to vijaykumar? He was with jayalalitha in assembly and got ditched before or after elections?
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Vaiko is a closet Tamil nationalist. He was protesting Hindians inviting SL president to open a Buddhist university in MP.
Kayalvizhi- Posts : 3659
Join date : 2011-05-16
Re: Why civil resistance trumps violent uprisings
Does vaiko have any real following tn? There used to be a comedian / politico cho ramaswamy. He wrote good dramas rakhta kanniru and tugluq. Very popular.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
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