New Delhi: The Mumbai Lit fest on Friday witnessed major drama when veteran actor and theatre artist Girish Karnad slammed Nobel prize laureate VS Naipaul and called him anti-Muslim. Karnad, who was present at the lit-fest on Friday to conduct a class on theatre, spoke at length about Naipaul.

Karnad said, "Now Mr Naipaul has written three books on India, three very big books and if you read them you will find that not one of them contains any reference to music. He has gone through the whole of India without responding to Indian music. Now I think that this only means that he is tone deaf. That's my reading of the situation but then there's no reason why he shouldn't be tone deaf. He has no music and therefore no conception of what the Muslims contributed to our history. This concept of what the Muslims did in Indian history clearly shows that he has no idea of atleast the music bit."

The controversial comments have sparked off a debate on web with author Taslima Nasreen tweeting in support of Karnad. If Naipaul wrote his books in one of the Indian regional languages, he would have been an unknown writer even in India. Festival organiser Anil Dharker expressed dismay over the controversy saying, "We were all taken aback by Girish Karnad's attack on VS Naipaul. After all, we had invited him to speak about his journey in theatre and Mr Naipaul had nothing to do with that!"


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mumbai-lit-fest-girish-karnad-attacks-vs-naipaul-for-his-views-on-muslims-in-india/303762-40-103.html

one more secular intellectual

everyone knows the half vegetarian hindus dont have the balls to defend their religion , so they take the side of those who have the balls to do so for their own religion---the muslims , who else......

ashdoc wrote:one more secular intellectual

everyone knows the half vegetarian hindus dont have the balls to defend their religion , so they take the side of those who have the balls to do so for their own religion---the muslims , who else......

http://rivr.sulekha.com/hindus-wake-up_369003_blog

Ashdoc,
Most of rss leaders and supporters are vegetarians. Most south indian half vegetarians and
Non vegetarian hindus dislike rss for its anti muslim activities.
how do you explain this ground reality contradiction with your balls theory in above post?
was that just a frustrated shout?

truthbetold wrote:Ashdoc,
Most of rss leaders and supporters are vegetarians. Most south indian half vegetarians and
Non vegetarian hindus dislike rss for its anti muslim activities.
how do you explain this ground reality contradiction with your balls theory in above post?
was that just a frustrated shout?

RSS leaders are mild people and thats why they are not aggressive like the congressis . the philosophy behind RSS may be militaristic but they lack the balls to carry it out to fruition because of their vegetarianism .

can the RSS murder muslims and rape muslim women like the pakistanis did to hindus and sikhs at the time of partition ?? the answer is no.....

today pakistan has almost no hindus and sikhs because all of them have been kicked out at the time of partition due to murder and rape . but the RSS failed to retaliate in kind and hence muslims still stay in india .

ashdoc wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Ashdoc,
Most of rss leaders and supporters are vegetarians. Most south indian half vegetarians and
Non vegetarian hindus dislike rss for its anti muslim activities.
how do you explain this ground reality contradiction with your balls theory in above post?
was that just a frustrated shout?

RSS leaders are mild people and thats why they are not aggressive like the congressis . the philosophy behind RSS may be militaristic but they lack the balls to carry it out to fruition because of their vegetarianism .

can the RSS murder muslims and rape muslim women like the pakistanis did to hindus and sikhs at the time of partition ?? the answer is no.....

today pakistan has almost no hindus and sikhs because all of them have been kicked out at the time of partition due to murder and rape . but the RSS failed to retaliate in kind and hence muslims still stay in india .

Good point Doc. You should push your slaughter-goats-and-become-tough-as-Muslims doctrine more aggresively to those mild unkils in Nagpur. And we could call in the Haryanvis to tutor RSS cadres in rape.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

ashdoc wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Ashdoc,
Most of rss leaders and supporters are vegetarians. Most south indian half vegetarians and
Non vegetarian hindus dislike rss for its anti muslim activities.
how do you explain this ground reality contradiction with your balls theory in above post?
was that just a frustrated shout?

RSS leaders are mild people and thats why they are not aggressive like the congressis . the philosophy behind RSS may be militaristic but they lack the balls to carry it out to fruition because of their vegetarianism .

can the RSS murder muslims and rape muslim women like the pakistanis did to hindus and sikhs at the time of partition ?? the answer is no.....

today pakistan has almost no hindus and sikhs because all of them have been kicked out at the time of partition due to murder and rape . but the RSS failed to retaliate in kind and hence muslims still stay in india .

Good point Doc. You should push your slaughter-goats-and-become-tough-as-Muslims doctrine more aggresively to those mild unkils in Nagpur. And we could call in the Haryanvis to tutor RSS cadres in rape.

Actualy, violence influences violence is an highly "believed" theory. RSS guys are Psuedo defenders of hindus - they want to defeat islamic violence with non-violence. Nada...will never succeed, when the iSalamis do everything in the name Koran they are devoid of any guilt to even think otherwise.

OTOH, The muslims very rarely mess with Thevars, Goundars, and Thakurs or Vokkaligas.The fight is often with the OBC and BC bcz of the turf conflict between them.

So thereshould be a 2-prong solutin to this: Force all hindus to eat meat and issue a Fukwa to muslims to eat only idli sambhar....

Not all world muslims can be placed in the same ideological basket. Indonezia and malaysia have shown a different type of attitude to growth than middle east muslims. Pak muslim extremists showed an extreme disregard to pak's own economic present and future. These kooks kill their own people including children. They are a cancer to pak which does.not have the means to cure itself. It probably will end in a much greater catastrophic situation.
To confuse indian muslim with pak muslim is not wise. Only a small % of IMs are active supporters of muslim extremism. Rss and misguided hindu extremists unnecessarily irritate most normal IMs to react or feel insulted.
The size of balls or vegetarianism have not much to do with hindu actions.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:OTOH, The muslims very rarely mess with Thevars, Goundars, and Thakurs or Vokkaligas.The fight is often with the OBC and BC bcz of the turf conflict between them.

So are you saying that post-8pm "experience" you had with those evil Muslims was not really rape? That it was consensual and you changed your story thereafter? That some Gounders rape so easy??

truthbetold wrote:Not all world muslims can be placed in the same ideological basket. Indonezia and malaysia have shown a different type of attitude to growth than middle east muslims. Pak muslim extremists showed an extreme disregard to pak's own economic present and future. These kooks kill their own people including children. They are a cancer to pak which does.not have the means to cure itself. It probably will end in a much greater catastrophic situation.
To confuse indian muslim with pak muslim is not wise. Only a small % of IMs are active supporters of muslim extremism. Rss and misguided hindu extremists unnecessarily irritate most normal IMs to react or feel insulted.
The size of balls or vegetarianism have not much to do with hindu actions.

hindus are a doomed race . no RSS or shiv sena or rantings by ashdoc will be able to save the hindus .

as the population of muslims grows and that of hindus shrink , the hindus are constricted to an ever shrinking space . we already lost pakistan and bangladesh---lands which had been ours for thousands of years . all hindus in kashmir valley are gone . assam is being flooded by bangladeshi migrants .

one day it will all be over for hinduism---this is not a warning but what will simply happen.....

to use a cliche---mark my words , just mark em.....

Here is the truth behind Hindus. They identify themselves by caste . The forward caste arrogance lost the lower castes. The fighters who belong to those castes do not want to fight your battle. Don't blame Muslim for the arrogance of forward caste Hindu.

a good discussion on the Karnad vs Naipaul fight:

http://ibnlive.in.com/cnnibnvideos/top-us/304083.html

Girish Karnad is talking so much sense in his interview with Sagarika.

truthbetold wrote:Here is the truth behind Hindus. They identify themselves by caste . The forward caste arrogance lost the lower castes. The fighters who belong to those castes do not want to fight your battle. Don't blame Muslim for the arrogance of forward caste Hindu.

I think Ashdoc is on the right track.

The cultural differences are blown up as caste differences among Hindus. At least in the cities (and almost 30% of India lives in cities), caste does not matter anymore, because economic prosperity is much more an important criteria for social status. It does matter a lot in the villages, where unfortunately cultural differences parallel economic status and together result in so-called caste differences. But things are changing for the better with (vernacular) media's help, and also due to economic growth.

Offcourse, the english media repeatedly divides Hindus by Caste so that they can get minorities to determine elections. They do this, even if there is no real voting pattern like that. This has clearly been proven, where some key issues cut across cultural differences in voting patterns especially in south and West. However media in every elections, always start by using Caste/Cultural differences as starting point for Hindu voting blocks and Muslims/Christians as other voting blocs. In fact, they never even use the word Hindu and always directly use the caste references, during elections.

Looks good for their statistics analysis, but that is not the case always. What is applicable to UP and Bihar is not applicable throughout India. Goan Hindus of all castes (including a few Christians) voted for BJP. Hindus of both dominant cultures voted together for BJP in Karnataka, although it is sadly unraveling.
In Rajasthan i Hindus cutting across all communites (Meenas and Gurjars (I forgot their exact name though) ) voted for Congress last elections.

But despite all this, the media blows up cultural differences as caste differences.

To prove Ashdoc's point we just need to look at Kerala, the plight of Kerala Hindus are for all to see.

When the PFI inspired Kerala education minister wants all teachers to wear Green, he asked every Hindu and Christian teacher to wear green. And this was in an official letterhead which was withdrawn latter. The congress government is being controlled by Islamists and Christians. But even the Christians are not able to handle the Islamic onslaught.

The SNDP (Ezhavas) and NSS (Nairs) have come together, but are realizing that it is too late. The Christians and Muslims were always able to stay in power by dividing Hindus. The Muslim extremists have openly expressed worries that Hindus are uniting. This clearly proves my point.

Kerala is fast becoming a Lebanon, with Hezbollah like organizations mushrooming, allegedly with Saudi Money and ISI Machinations. Currently these organizations act in the form of motorcycle goons who enforce Law (Sharia) in Kannur & Mallapuram and allegedly prevent custom inspectors from entering Dubai P&O world controlled Cochi port.

Hindus are fools who allow the media to divide them. They are doomed if they do not unite. Any media person (and this sometimes includes Non Hindus) who repeatedly blows up cultural & caste differences during elections, are doing it for their own or for the benefit of other monotheistic religions and they deserve to be countered.

I really wish the Hindu religious leaders take a more open stand on the remaining pockets of UP/Bihar by outlawing caste as a concept.

Does the media blow up Ashraf/Ajlaf/Pasmananda/Shia/Sunni differences OR Dalit Christian Vs Nadar Christian differences in Tamilnadu? No! An Ashraf Muslim rarely marries into Ajlafs OR pasmanandas, clearly proving that cultural differences exist among Muslims too. Shias and Sunnis hardly intermarry. And even there, the trait is inherited through birth. So the cultural differences are present there and the communities don't mingle easily also.

But then media only focuses on the concept of caste in India. Hindus need a complete reclassification of social status diverged from cultural differences. It is already the case in cities.

Rashmun wrote:a good discussion on the Karnad vs Naipaul fight:

http://ibnlive.in.com/cnnibnvideos/top-us/304083.html

another good discussion on the Karnad vs Naipaul fight:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/india-decides-9/was-girish-karnad-s-attack-on-vs-naipaul-unfair/253712?pfrom=home-topstories

hearing the discussion made me better understand a point i was already familiar with:

the early muslim invaders destroyed temples, looted wealth, etc. but the later muslim kings who settled in India were not destroyers but builders. North Indian and Deccani culture is a fusion or synthesis of traditional hindu culture with the muslim culture: 'a meeting of two oceans' as Dara Shikoh put it.

Naipaul only sees the destructive impact of the early muslim invaders; he does not see that the later muslim kings (who settled down in India) were not destroyers but builders. For instance the kings in the Deccan, and also the mughals. For this one-sided view of muslim influence on Indian culture, Naipaul deserves to be criticized.

----

Oh! Naipaul is quivering in his seats! Rashmun has criticized him. He is probably farting happily after having his best meal.

And you are going to be disappointed, because allegedly, Karnad just figured that in today's english dominated India serving as sycophants to the congress, being seen as pro-muslim (next to be being critical of Hindus) is the easiest way to stake claim to fame, and be rewarded with jobs for the boys. Now why should Congress so much be beholden to Muslims ?

That is where electoral analysis comes. Actually as much as 35-50% of Congress voters are Muslims. They just survive only because of this.

What can be the possible jobs. Next Dadasaheb Phalke award or a Rajya Sabha Seat or even as he probably trying to do, fill a void in the Congress leadership in Karnataka. If he had made this statement and then also made a statement that he will not accept any wards or enter politics I would have applauded it as something true and would be figuring out what aspects made him say this. But my accepting the ever ready Sagarika ghose (she loves interviewing Hindu Baiters or Political Islam apologists) statement that he is a professional (left out the pseudo though) secularist he is just ready to jump into the same muck.

the views of a liberal indian on this controversy were eloquently expressed by amitabha bagchi in another forum. i will quote only the relevant portion:

I don't have too many options when it comes to the Indian national secular project. It was injected into me at an early age along with various WHO approved vaccines. It is -- to use a horrible empty signifier that we should have all stopped using a long time ago -- my identity. I am Karnad's fellow traveler in that respect. If someone now wants to call me Comrade Bagchi and feel that this is a zinging attempt at humour, I will not stop them from doing so...

Naipaul is a foreigner, you see. His world will not shatter into a million pieces if the Indian national secular project dies.

ashdoc wrote:hindus are a doomed race . no RSS or shiv sena or rantings by ashdoc will be able to save the hindus .

as the population of muslims grows and that of hindus shrink , the hindus are constricted to an ever shrinking space . we already lost pakistan and bangladesh---lands which had been ours for thousands of years . all hindus in kashmir valley are gone . assam is being flooded by bangladeshi migrants .

one day it will all be over for hinduism---this is not a warning but what will simply happen.....

to use a cliche---mark my words , just mark em.....

Oh Doc, you poor poor man. Looks like you never followed up on your ambitions to slaughter goats and achieve Muslim-like toughness. Leave alone any desire to prevail or even assert, you now seem to have lost your will to maintain your own identity. Time to find a good Muslim husband for you now. Ask Upps Unkil. He has been through this.