An Indian wins Spelling bee

Sukanya Roy - 9th Indian in the last 13 years

I think we should invite her to this forum. She could take the place of LW

Wish these kids enjoyed their life a bit more that learning that all the obfuscated words which they will never use beyond their stage appearance. It s a great achievement but somehow I just cannot get to admire spelling bee.

artood2 wrote:Wish these kids enjoyed their life a bit more that learning that all the obfuscated words which they will never use beyond their stage appearance. It s a great achievement but somehow I just cannot get to admire spelling bee.

Maybe learning the spellings of obfuscated words is their idea of enjoyment?

blabberwock wrote:

artood2 wrote:Wish these kids enjoyed their life a bit more than learning that all the obfuscated words which they will never use beyond their stage appearance. It s a great achievement but somehow I just cannot get to admire spelling bee.

Maybe learning the spellings of obfuscated words is their idea of enjoyment?

I just hope it is self driven. I feel they can still find a lot of other equally educational stuff as interesting becasue this almost requires obssession. I am sure a feeling of achievement gives great enjoyment and they are enjoying all the excitement. So I amy be wrong about enjoying life. I woudl stand behind my assertion that there are better things to learn than all those words. A geography bee or science project or trivia quizzing has greater usage in life than spelling bee. But it may all be just a reflection of my literary inadequacies.

artood2 wrote:

blabberwock wrote:

artood2 wrote:Wish these kids enjoyed their life a bit more than learning that all the obfuscated words which they will never use beyond their stage appearance. It s a great achievement but somehow I just cannot get to admire spelling bee.

Maybe learning the spellings of obfuscated words is their idea of enjoyment?

I just hope it is self driven. I feel they can still find a lot of other equally educational stuff as interesting becasue this almost requires obssession. I am sure a feeling of achievement gives great enjoyment and they are enjoying all the excitement. So I amy be wrong about enjoying life. I woudl stand behind my assertion that there are better things to learn than all those words. A geography bee or science project or trivia quizzing has greater usage in life than spelling bee. But it may all be just a reflection of my literary inadequacies.

It all depends on what else they learn in the process. If they learn about the roots of the words, their origins, etc. it can be a pretty interesting exercise to do. In the process, they will enhance their vocabulary as well. If they are simply cramming the spellings of thousands of words, yes, it is a completely useless exercise.

I remember watching one kid, a year or two ago, trying to come up with the spelling of a word - it was quite fascinating the way he did it. Let me see if I can find the video of that.

I think I watched it live for a few years and was distinctly impressed by the kids up there. I even watched one of the desi winners get into a spelling contest with Jimmy Kimmel (and lose because he did not spell Pau Gasol with a capital P!!!). My apathy developed later.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Sukanya Roy - 9th Indian in the last 13 years

If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy. That is something I care about, not spelling bee or other scholastic achievements of desi kids.

Whatever happens AFTER becoming THE Spelling Beear?

Anyone has ever heard of a past winner's later life ?

Just Curious.

artood2 wrote:Wish these kids enjoyed their life a bit more that learning that all the obfuscated words which they will never use beyond their stage appearance. It s a great achievement but somehow I just cannot get to admire spelling bee.

what is an obfuscated word?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Whatever happens AFTER becoming THE Spelling Beear?

Anyone has ever heard of a past winner's later life ?

Just Curious.

===> Most of these kids end up in top tier schools.

Ragini Ramachandran, a spelling bee winner went to Stanford Medical School.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

artood2 wrote:Wish these kids enjoyed their life a bit more that learning that all the obfuscated words which they will never use beyond their stage appearance. It s a great achievement but somehow I just cannot get to admire spelling bee.

what is an obfuscated word?

That is wrong. My bad. I was trying to mean obfuscating, obscure and/or obsolete.

Yes, I feel that ability to memorize is better spent in increasing the width of knowledge rather than the depth (at that age).

CroMagnon wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Sukanya Roy - 9th Indian in the last 13 years

If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy. That is something I care about, not spelling bee or other scholastic achievements of desi kids.

Are they indisciplined or unhappy or indisciplined and unhappy? Or are they unhappy that they are indisciplined?

I too used to have a lot of theories about kids/their upbringing/their parents before I had a couple of my own. Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can.

blabberwock wrote:Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can.

If in a free forum, someone doesn't like my opinions or theories, I tell them go take a hike too. Unlike you, I don't try to be polite.

CroMagnon wrote:

blabberwock wrote:Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can.

If in a free forum, someone doesn't like my opinions or theories, I tell them go take a hike too. Unlike you, I don't try to be polite.

Of course, you may choose to do that or argue your point logically.

This isn't a question of like or dislike - parenting is something that one has to experience before one can talk about it with any credibility. There are many non-parents like you who like to talk as if they know it all. I used to have a lot of similar thoughts as well.

In any case, sweeping judgements like "all indian kids are such&such" are quite silly. It is the same as "all north indians are such", "all south indians are such" nonsense.

blabberwock wrote:Of course, you may choose to do that or argue your point logically.

Only if a logical counter argument is presented.

"Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can." is hardly an argument, right?

blabberwock wrote:This isn't a question of like or dislike - parenting is something that one has to experience before one can talk about it with any credibility.

The argument that you have to experience parenting to talk about it holds no water. It is like saying a civil engineer , fresh out of college, cannot know more about buildings than a brick layer because he hasn't built a building on his own. One can always learn from experiences of others, provided (s)he is smart enough.

blabberwock wrote:There are many non-parents like you who like to talk as if they know it all. I used to have a lot of similar thoughts as well.

If you or others you know turned out to be wrong, it proves nothing except that you and them had wrong notions about parenting.

blabberwock wrote:In any case, sweeping judgements like "all indian kids are such&such" are quite silly. It is the same as "all north indians are such", "all south indians are such" nonsense.

I said no such thing as all Indian kids are indisciplined or unhappy. The statement "If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy" doesn't mean all Indian kids are unhappy or all Indian kids are unhappier than the unhappiest non-Indian kid. Indians are poorer than Americans doesn't mean we don't have the like of Ambanis.

CroMagnon wrote:

blabberwock wrote:Of course, you may choose to do that or argue your point logically.

Only if a logical counter argument is presented.

"Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can." is hardly an argument, right?

blabberwock wrote:This isn't a question of like or dislike - parenting is something that one has to experience before one can talk about it with any credibility.

The argument that you have to experience parenting to talk about it holds no water. It is like saying a civil engineer , fresh out of college, cannot know more about buildings than a brick layer because he hasn't built a building on his own. One can always learn from experiences of others, provided (s)he is smart enough.

blabberwock wrote:There are many non-parents like you who like to talk as if they know it all. I used to have a lot of similar thoughts as well.

If you or others you know turned out to be wrong, it proves nothing except that you and them had wrong notions about parenting.

blabberwock wrote:In any case, sweeping judgements like "all indian kids are such&such" are quite silly. It is the same as "all north indians are such", "all south indians are such" nonsense.

I said no such thing as all Indian kids are indisciplined or unhappy. The statement "If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy" doesn't mean all Indian kids are unhappy or all Indian kids are unhappier than the unhappiest non-Indian kid. Indians are poorer than Americans doesn't mean we don't have the like of Ambanis.

Boy if you do not get slaughtered for it, it is just because people do not read your posts.

You read it. Why don't you give it a shot?

CroMagnon wrote:

blabberwock wrote:There are many non-parents like you who like to talk as if they know it all. I used to have a lot of similar thoughts as well.

If you or others you know turned out to be wrong, it proves nothing except that you and them had wrong notions about parenting.

Or that many people are not smart enough to learn without experiencing it themselves.

CroMagnon wrote:
"Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can." is hardly an argument, right?

I did not say that it was one. The point is they aren't qualified to talk in depth about parenting - they have as much credibility as Deepak Chopra has on Quantum Physics.

The argument that you have to experience parenting to talk about it holds no water. It is like saying a civil engineer , fresh out of college, cannot know more about buildings than a brick layer because he hasn't built a building on his own. One can always learn from experiences of others, provided (s)he is smart enough.

Parenting/dealing with kids is not the same as learning about a certain subject. You cannot learn parenting from books. I think human beings are far more complex entities than buildings. If you were a primary school teacher or someone at a daycare dealing with kids on a regular basis, I will take your views a bit more seriously. I used to get irked by parents who had screaming kids in flights and blame it on poor parenting. Once I had to fly with my toddler and he started screaming because of pain in the ear and there wasn't much I could do to calm him down. Yes, I could have drugged him with cough syrup and made him sleep but I wasn't willing to do that. After that, I became more understanding and tolerant of screaming babies in planes.

If you or others you know turned out to be wrong, it proves nothing except that you and them had wrong notions about parenting.

Wrong? I just say that parenting/child rearing is one of those challenges that is easy to talk about than actually implement it.

I said no such thing as all Indian kids are indisciplined or unhappy. The statement "If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy" doesn't mean all Indian kids are unhappy or all Indian kids are unhappier than the unhappiest non-Indian kid. Indians are poorer than Americans doesn't mean we don't have the like of Ambanis.

Well, I certainly haven't noticed that and have seen no evidence that Indians kids are in any way unhappier than kids from other parts of the world. If you are talking about a few you have seen, that's fine. That does not make it a valid theory though.

blabberwock wrote:

CroMagnon wrote:
"Now, if non-parent smart-alecks give me their theories on kids, I tell them to go take a hike as politely as I possibly can." is hardly an argument, right?

I did not say that it was one.

If you didn't make an argument, why did you suggest I argue it logically when I merely replied to your non-argument in the same vein?

The point is they aren't qualified to talk in depth about parenting - they have as much credibility as Deepak Chopra has on Quantum Physics.

That is your opinion and I don't care much about it.

Parenting/dealing with kids is not the same as learning about a certain subject. You cannot learn parenting from books.

Books can teach you a bit. Others' experience can teach you a bit. Dealing with other people can teach you a bit. noticing kids can teach you a bit. If you can't learn anything about parenting from other sources, you are sure to mess up your first kid at least.

I think human beings are far more complex entities than buildings.

They are in certain ways, and in certain ways they are very simple.

If you were a primary school teacher or someone at a daycare dealing with kids on a regular basis, I will take your views a bit more seriously.

Thanks for letting me know again, but I do not care about whether you take my views seriously either.

Wrong? I just say that parenting/child rearing is one of those challenges that is easy to talk about than actually implement it.

I agree. It is difficult to implement and that is why I chose not to have kids. But once you chose to have kids you have already put yourself up to the challenge. It is your duty to deliver.

blabberwock wrote:

CroMagnon wrote:
I said no such thing as all Indian kids are indisciplined or unhappy. The statement "If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy" doesn't mean all Indian kids are unhappy or all Indian kids are unhappier than the unhappiest non-Indian kid. Indians are poorer than Americans doesn't mean we don't have the like of Ambanis.

Well, I certainly haven't noticed that and have seen no evidence that Indians kids are in any way unhappier than kids from other parts of the world. If you are talking about a few you have seen, that's fine. That does not make it a valid theory though.

I believe you refuse to see the fact because you are an Indian yourself.

In any case, I cannot conduct a statistical study on this one, nor can you. The only thing we both can do is that when we both go out to a multi-cultural setting next time, we honestly observe and reassess our previous observations.

sambarvada wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Whatever happens AFTER becoming THE Spelling Beear?

Anyone has ever heard of a past winner's later life ?

Just Curious.

===> Most of these kids end up in top tier schools.

Ragini Ramachandran, a spelling bee winner went to Stanford Medical School.

So many Indians end up in Top tier med schools (BTW, Stanford is not even in the top 10).

I would have expected the Spelling Beers to go much higher. It is like the JEE topper becoming a code coolie in INFY. Not enough of an achievement given the expectation.

My last post on this:

CroMagnon wrote: If you didn't make an argument, why did you suggest I argue it logically when I merely replied to your non-argument in the same vein?

I did not suggest that *you* argue logically. My comment was a general one on in response to your comment on differing views and opinions on discussion boards and how to deal with those. I am happy to argue when the other person is qualified to talk on that topic. But I do ask people who talk authoritatively and arrogantly on topics that they have no expertise/experience in to take a hike.

CroMagnon wrote: Books can teach you a bit. Others' experience can teach you a bit. Dealing with other people can teach you a bit. noticing kids can teach you a bit. If you can't learn anything about parenting from other sources, you are sure to mess up your first kid at least.

I did not say that you learn nothing from books but reading those they do not make you an authority figure on parents and child rearing. Books give you some basic guidelines. All modern, new parents invest in a lot of books starting from “What to expect when you are expecting”. The same holds good for books on marriage and relationships. Theory is all fine and dandy but practical experience invariably hurls different challenges that may not be explained in books. Using your example of a civil engineer, if I were to build a bridge, I would rather hire someone who has spent a few years building bridges instead of a bright eyed, bushy tailed, fresh college graduate. Similarly, I will take a person familiar with children more seriously than a non-parent who just observes and takes notes. Incidentally, I do take a lot of books very seriously, especially when they are written by child psychologists but just because I have read a few books, I wouldn’t go around criticizing and categorizing parents and children around me.

CroMagnon wrote:I agree. It is difficult to implement and that is why I chose not to have kids. But once you chose to have kids you have already put yourself up to the challenge. It is your duty to deliver.

You say that you chose to not have kids because you can’t deliver. That’s your life choice and I have nothing to say about it. Some us do not adhere strictly to any child rearing bible and do our best in ways we think are right. There is no duty or obligation to deliver to anyone outside of the family. Your comments on these are like a slob who chooses to let his fitness/weight drift because he can’t meet the challenges required commenting and criticizing someone who is trying to follow a fitness regimen and doing their best.

CroMagnon wrote:
I believe you refuse to see the fact because you are an Indian yourself.

I never defend Indians just because I am an Indian. I am usually called a self-loathing Indian/Tamilian by a lot of people. Also, I do not know how you measure “happiness” and concluded that indian kids are less happy. I deal regularly with an international set of kids including Indians and I haven’t seen any such pattern.

Anyway, I am done with this discussion.

blabberwock wrote:I did not suggest that *you* argue logically.

I'm not sure how else to interpret your comment "or you can argue logically."

Your comments on these are like a slob who chooses to let his fitness/weight drift because he can’t meet the challenges required commenting and criticizing someone who is trying to follow a fitness regimen and doing their best.

Following a fitness regimen is a choice, raising your own kids is a duty.

Anyway, I am done with this discussion.

So am I. There are more than a billion parents in this world. Everyone raises their kids. So parenting is not some kind of special super secret knowledge that only a few are privy to. I cannot continue arguing with someone who thinks they have some special knowledge about parenting simply because they are one.

blabberwock wrote:You cannot learn parenting from books.

That's the summary of it. Learning parenting from others experience is probably like learning cycling or swimming from another person's experience. (Full disclosure: I don't have kids.)

so wats the trend like ? how do these spelling bee winner kids do in life? do they make noble doctors and creative engineers ? do they become writers or inspiring teachers etc? wats so important abt winning these things ?

charvaka wrote:

blabberwock wrote:You cannot learn parenting from books.

That's the summary of it. Learning parenting from others experience is probably like learning cycling or swimming from another person's experience. (Full disclosure: I don't have kids.)

I thought of the same example but i did not write it. Cro is so way off the mark that it is not even worth trying.

seven wrote:so wats the trend like ? how do these spelling bee winner kids do in life? do they make noble doctors and creative engineers ? do they become writers or inspiring teachers etc? wats so important abt winning these things ?

The important thing is lots of learning, a great sense of accomplishment and an understanding of what it takes to achieve something.

charvaka wrote:Learning parenting from others experience is probably like learning cycling or swimming from another person's experience. (Full disclosure: I don't have kids.)

Parenting is like driving. Even if you haven't driven before, you still know who is at fault in case you witness an accident.

artood2 wrote:Cro is so way off the mark that it is not even worth trying.

I feel the same way too when I think someone is way off the mark. So fair enough.

There are a billion people who have raised one or more kids. It can't be rocket science. Just think about it.

ahan! i see. so this must be like the hardest thing to achive i guess. thus all the fuss. hmm

CroMagnon wrote:

artood2 wrote:Cro is so way off the mark that it is not even worth trying.

I feel the same way too when I think someone is way off the mark. So fair enough.

There are a billion people who have raised one or more kids. It can't be rocket science. Just think about it.

And all those billion kids are very well behaved, extermely happy, extermely driven, top performing in all forms of life?

seven wrote:ahan! i see. so this must be like the hardest thing to achive i guess. thus all the fuss. hmm

Not the hardest but pretty darn hard.

seven wrote:so wats the trend like ? how do these spelling bee winner kids do in life? do they make noble doctors and creative engineers ? do they become writers or inspiring teachers etc? wats so important abt winning these things ?

>>>> May not necessarily directly translate to any of these things, but a passion for something and the discipline/commitment shows that there are underlying traits that can be channeled into other endeavors. Often, the love for words reflects a certain curiosity about language and word-origins. This enhances the ability to communication well, which does have benefits in the workaday world.

artood2 wrote:And all those billion kids are very well behaved, extermely happy, extermely driven, top performing in all forms of life?

No. but a lot of them are raised by "experienced" parents.

When I was being interviewed for a teaching position, the guy told me, "You see, we are looking for someone with 5 years teaching experience, you have none."

To which I replied, "I haven't taught anyone formally, but everyone teaches someone or the other informally over the course of life. And I may not have any teaching experience, but I have tons of learning experience. In my life, I must have been taught by 100 teachers; all of them were experienced, but none of them was good."

The interviewer laughed so hard and the job was secured without any further questions.

Bottomline: Parenting, just like teaching, is no rocket science which parents like to pretend it is. Everyone does it, some excel in it, and some do a lousy job; most fall somewhere in between. It is a skill which can be acquired in multiple ways and experience is just one of them.

Have you ever seen siblings with vastly different characteristics? Anyways I think you are way way off the mark and I do not wish to try.

artood2 wrote:Have you ever seen siblings with vastly different characteristics?

Yeah, my bro and I are one example. You deal with them differently. You come across peers with vastly different characteristics every day and you have to deal with them.

artood2 wrote:Anyways I think you are way way off the mark and I do not wish to try.

I know I'm the hopeless minority, so battle to convince people otherwise is all mine.

Kris wrote:

seven wrote:so wats the trend like ? how do these spelling bee winner kids do in life? do they make noble doctors and creative engineers ? do they become writers or inspiring teachers etc? wats so important abt winning these things ?

>>>> May not necessarily directly translate to any of these things, but a passion for something and the discipline/commitment shows that there are underlying traits that can be channeled into other endeavors. Often, the love for words reflects a certain curiosity about language and word-origins. This enhances the ability to communication well, which does have benefits in the workaday world.

got it. back in school our sanskrit teacher used to give us the spelling test whn we were bored and didnt pay attention to the class. this guy prateek cud always spell the most difficult longest possible words after hearing it twice or three times...and i understand now wat u mean by love for words and curiosity about languages...he learns new languages with ease and writes poems etc.

got it. back in school our sanskrit teacher used to give us the spelling test whn we were bored and didnt pay attention to the class. this guy prateek cud always spell the most difficult longest possible words after hearing it twice or three times...and i understand now wat u mean by love for words and curiosity about languages...he learns new languages with ease and writes poems etc.

>>> And I avoided after-school special classes in Sanskrit, to the point where the teacher had one of my classmates chase me down one day to bring me back to class. That was probably the last class I attended. Prateek writes poems now and I post on the CH. See the difference!

Q.E.D.

lol u write well too. that guy is like we say in hindi 'rasik' i donno the english equivalent for that. he enjoys multiple hobbies, plays guitar, sings (well), writes, is funny and loves to travel...knows a lot abt different islands and cultures etc and always has an interesting story/annecdote on every occasion.

oh and he used to make amazing pencil sketches.

u think all this cud be bcz of his love for difficult spellings ??? omg!

7, I think Kris was talking about dedication/discipline more than the ability to spell. The harafanmaula character you describes are just like that, not easy to find.

yah, i know wat he meant. and my frnd is no harfanmaula character...well in his defense, all he does lately is play farmville n post pictures of his farm.

Oh he knows farming as well. Harfanmaula I say!

lol

CroMagnon wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Sukanya Roy - 9th Indian in the last 13 years

If you look around in a mall or any multicultural setting, Indian kids look the least happy. That is something I care about, not spelling bee or other scholastic achievements of desi kids.

Thanks! we no longer miss FF, we got ourselves a FF 2.0 fellow SuChers

CroMagnon wrote:Parenting is like driving.

And you can't learn how to drive from a book or from someone else's driving lessons. You need to get behind the wheel to learn to drive, and you need to have a child to learn how to parent children.

charvaka wrote:You need to get behind the wheel to learn to drive, and you need to have a child to learn how to parent children.

Even in physical skills, you can apply certain things to other physical skills. Golf and Cricket may be different sports, but it shares a lot of things in common - hand eye coordination, feet balance etc. are certain skills which you can carry from one to the other.

Similarly, parenting is all about psychology and knowledge of kids. You learn aspects of it from dealing with various kinds of people including 100s of kids you come across your life by the time you have your own kids.

If experience is a must for parenting, no one would be able to raise their first kid.

In any case, just like experienced teachers, I have seen so many experienced parents botch up parenting that I would not let them give any advice to me on parenting.

and da first prize goes to...