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Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Idéfix Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:38 pm
I remember reading about Tulsidas in my Hindi lessons. He was described as a saint, and the text read like a hagiography of this poet. Tulsidas wrote the Ramacharitamanas and the widely-known and oft-recited hanumAn-chAlisA. I vaguely remember that he was portrayed in the textbook as a kindly reformer unkil who did lots of good deeds. So I was surprised to discover that Tulsidas had written this poem that someone quoted yesterday. I looked into it and was surprised to find that this couplet occurs in the Ramacharitamanas.
DhOl gawAr shUdra pashu nArI
yE sab tADan kE adhikArI
Drum, rural/ignorant person, shudra, beast, and woman
All these deserve a beating.
I wonder how people who hold this saint in high regard reconcile this poem with their regard for the poet. This may also be treated as an invitation for creative reinterpreters to craft appropriate apologia.
DhOl gawAr shUdra pashu nArI
yE sab tADan kE adhikArI
Drum, rural/ignorant person, shudra, beast, and woman
All these deserve a beating.
I wonder how people who hold this saint in high regard reconcile this poem with their regard for the poet. This may also be treated as an invitation for creative reinterpreters to craft appropriate apologia.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:44 pm
this is from the Brihad-Aranyaka Upanisad:
7. If she should not grant him his desire, he should bribe her. If she still does not grant him his desire, he should hit her with a stick or with his hand, and overcome her, saying: 'With power, with glory I take away your glory!' Thus she becomes inglorious.
8. If she should yield to him, he says: 'With power, with glory I give you glory!' Thus they two become glorious.
9. The woman whom one may desire with the thought, 'May she enjoy love with me!'--after inserting the member in her, joining mouth with mouth, and stroking her lap, he should mutter:--
'Thou that from every limb art come,
That from the heart art generate,
Thou art the essence of the limbs!
Distract this woman here in me,
As if by poisoned arrow pierced!'
10. Now, the woman whom one may desire with the thought, 'May she not conceive offspring!'--after inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he should first inhale, then exhale, and say: 'With power, with semen, I reclaim the semen from you!' Thus she comes to be without seed.
12. Now, the woman whom one may desire with the thought, 'May she conceive!'--after inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he should first exhale, then inhale, and say: 'With power, with semen, I deposit semen in you!' Thus she becomes pregnant.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe15/sbe15098.htm
7. If she should not grant him his desire, he should bribe her. If she still does not grant him his desire, he should hit her with a stick or with his hand, and overcome her, saying: 'With power, with glory I take away your glory!' Thus she becomes inglorious.
8. If she should yield to him, he says: 'With power, with glory I give you glory!' Thus they two become glorious.
9. The woman whom one may desire with the thought, 'May she enjoy love with me!'--after inserting the member in her, joining mouth with mouth, and stroking her lap, he should mutter:--
'Thou that from every limb art come,
That from the heart art generate,
Thou art the essence of the limbs!
Distract this woman here in me,
As if by poisoned arrow pierced!'
10. Now, the woman whom one may desire with the thought, 'May she not conceive offspring!'--after inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he should first inhale, then exhale, and say: 'With power, with semen, I reclaim the semen from you!' Thus she comes to be without seed.
12. Now, the woman whom one may desire with the thought, 'May she conceive!'--after inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he should first exhale, then inhale, and say: 'With power, with semen, I deposit semen in you!' Thus she becomes pregnant.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe15/sbe15098.htm
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:54 pm
munmun stop reading all this khatru material.
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:56 pm
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
You want me to stop reading the Upanisads, Bollywood Aunty?
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:59 pm
Rashmun wrote:Vidya Bagchi wrote:
You want me to stop reading the Upanisads, Bollywood Aunty?
yes.
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:59 pm
Vidya Bagchi wrote:Rashmun wrote:Vidya Bagchi wrote:
You want me to stop reading the Upanisads, Bollywood Aunty?
yes.
And watch idiotic bollywood songs instead?
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Idéfix Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:00 am
LOL, what does khatru mean?Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:02 am
panini press wrote:LOL, what does khatru mean?Vidya Bagchi wrote:
short for khatarnak.
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Guest Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:04 am
Rashmun wrote:Vidya Bagchi wrote:Rashmun wrote:Vidya Bagchi wrote:
You want me to stop reading the Upanisads, Bollywood Aunty?
yes.
And watch idiotic bollywood songs instead?
no, watch the good ones.
Guest- Guest
Re: Tulsidas on shudras and women
by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:09 am
panini press wrote:I remember reading about Tulsidas in my Hindi lessons. He was described as a saint, and the text read like a hagiography of this poet. Tulsidas wrote the Ramacharitamanas and the widely-known and oft-recited hanumAn-chAlisA. I vaguely remember that he was portrayed in the textbook as a kindly reformer unkil who did lots of good deeds. So I was surprised to discover that Tulsidas had written this poem that someone quoted yesterday. I looked into it and was surprised to find that this couplet occurs in the Ramacharitamanas.
DhOl gawAr shUdra pashu nArI
yE sab tADan kE adhikArI
Drum, rural/ignorant person, shudra, beast, and woman
All these deserve a beating.
I wonder how people who hold this saint in high regard reconcile this poem with their regard for the poet. This may also be treated as an invitation for creative reinterpreters to craft appropriate apologia.
He lived in medieval UP. If he lived in TN during the pieceful phase of DK-ism, here is what he would have written:
DhOl kapat iyer pashu gau
yE sab tADan kE adhikArI
Vakavaka Pakapaka- Posts : 7611
Join date : 2012-08-24
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