High Paid CEOs

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:52 pm

...All the high paid executives are sent on leave (with pay) for 1 year and delegate their "work" to those under them, NOTHING will happen to the companies. Absolutely nothing. Replace them with those who will work for far less not to exceed 10x the lowest exec.

Hope some big company takes the plunge and implements this.... Japanese company execc make only 5 to 10x the lowest exec pay...and they seemed to be just fine.

Propa: Yes, I am jealous... that the looters are allowed to getaway and even legally (not to mention the 1 to2% fee that my MFs charge annually.) If the president makes only 400K, why should these PVT CEOs/exec make that much. If they dont want to work - fine...leave..sky would not fall.

by Propagandhi711 Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:55 pm

so if I understand your world view correctly, you want a state where no one owns guns, the state kills rapists and others accused on crimes without due process, hands, balls etc are chopped off routinely in a public square as deterrence, nuke it's neighbors, treat most minorities like second class citizens and also limits executive pay and throw everyone in jail for playing in a capitalist society, while taxing the rich heavily?

where would you find such a state? hmmmmm....the current mecca for mecca satisfies most of your requirements I think

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:26 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:so if I understand your world view correctly, you want a state where no one owns guns, the state kills rapists and others accused on crimes without due process, hands, balls etc are chopped off routinely in a public square as deterrence, nuke it's neighbors, treat most minorities like second class citizens and also limits executive pay and throw everyone in jail for playing in a capitalist society, while taxing the rich heavily?

where would you find such a state? hmmmmm....the current mecca for mecca satisfies most of your requirements I think

Hey you got that... but those countries will treat me as a second class citizen - not acceptable.

now...why is it limiting executive pay is anti-capitalism ? You mean to say that Japan is an anti-capitalist state? or for that matter, the scandinavian countries that tax upto 70 to 90% are anti-capitalist?

What is being allowed and practiced in the US today is GREEDINESS. Was the US anti-capitalist in 50s, 60s, and 70s? What is going on since the 80s is Greediness. Talk to most people - the non CEOS: what they think of the sky-high salaries of top people. almost unanimously there will be revulsion among the americans - Will it make them all anti-capitalists?

by Propagandhi711 Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:04 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:so if I understand your world view correctly, you want a state where no one owns guns, the state kills rapists and others accused on crimes without due process, hands, balls etc are chopped off routinely in a public square as deterrence, nuke it's neighbors, treat most minorities like second class citizens and also limits executive pay and throw everyone in jail for playing in a capitalist society, while taxing the rich heavily?

where would you find such a state? hmmmmm....the current mecca for mecca satisfies most of your requirements I think

Hey you got that... but those countries will treat me as a second class citizen - not acceptable.

now...why is it limiting executive pay is anti-capitalism ? You mean to say that Japan is an anti-capitalist state? or for that matter, the scandinavian countries that tax upto 70 to 90% are anti-capitalist?

What is being allowed and practiced in the US today is GREEDINESS. Was the US anti-capitalist in 50s, 60s, and 70s? What is going on since the 80s is Greediness. Talk to most people - the non CEOS: what they think of the sky-high salaries of top people. almost unanimously there will be revulsion among the americans - Will it make them all anti-capitalists?

yes & yes to your query on whether japan and scandinavian countries are anti capitalists (although I dont understand the relevance of what scandinavian tax rates have to do with limiting CEO pay). Japan does not have a pure capitalism driven economy as defined in the US nor does scandinavia for that matter.

greed runs the world, from time immemorial. give up that confused rhetoric already

by truthbetold Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:40 pm

While usa is probably the most capitalism friendly nation in the world, it is not pure capitalism. Greed and selfishness are drivers of all economies all over the world for as long as we know.
The key to capitalism is its ability to price a product appropriatly. One can argue that most ceos do not measure up. I worked for a major corporation that made one of the worst deals in corporate history and ran both companies to ground. I could see his move is bad and the market saw it and took the stock down by several multiples. That guy earned 7 million. He retired but the company is still struggling to get back on its feet.
remember 200 mil paid by home depot to nordelli.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:35 pm

truthbetold wrote:While usa is probably the most capitalism friendly nation in the world, it is not pure capitalism. Greed and selfishness are drivers of all economies all over the world for as long as we know.
The key to capitalism is its ability to price a product appropriatly. One can argue that most ceos do not measure up. I worked for a major corporation that made one of the worst deals in corporate history and ran both companies to ground. I could see his move is bad and the market saw it and took the stock down by several multiples. That guy earned 7 million. He retired but the company is still struggling to get back on its feet.
remember 200 mil paid by home depot to nordelli.

Propa does not understand. He is a closet fakularist... Razz

Criticizing CEO loot is not anti-capitalism. Why should the CEO of losing corporations get millions in pay and bonuses. If Capitalism is all about profits and reward for profits, then the losing corporations with high paying CEOs are the ones who are anti-capitalistic.l

What did Marisa mayer accomplish to warrant 14 mill for her 6 months of work with 3 of them on maternity leave. What did her predecessor achieve and why should she be given some $16 mil for 6 months? if she is THAT good why was she fired?... Razz

This is not capitalism this is Lootism.

by Idéfix Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:55 pm

Unbridled capitalism is just as bad as unbridled socialism. Both systems will severely limit social mobility, and the incentives for people to improve their lot in life. The reason is quite simple: human nature. The argument against unbridled socialism was proven by the Soviet and Chinese experiments of the last century. So let's see what unbridled capitalism does in a human society.

In a completely capitalist system with no regulation, those who capture a large share of income and wealth through their smarts and hard work will then want to preserve it for their biological descendants, regardless of their smarts and willingness to work hard. You end up with monopolies that severely restrict competition and Gilded Age social systems. In such a society, where you are born is a much larger determinant of your lot in life than your smarts and willingness to work hard, just as it is in a Soviet-like society.

The reason that America won the Cold War is not just that unbridled socialism is a bad system, but also that America itself adopted a system that allowed individual enterprise but regulated it. By dismantling the checks on capitalism, the US is now at risk of swinging to the other extreme.

by Propagandhi711 Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:12 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:While usa is probably the most capitalism friendly nation in the world, it is not pure capitalism. Greed and selfishness are drivers of all economies all over the world for as long as we know.
The key to capitalism is its ability to price a product appropriatly. One can argue that most ceos do not measure up. I worked for a major corporation that made one of the worst deals in corporate history and ran both companies to ground. I could see his move is bad and the market saw it and took the stock down by several multiples. That guy earned 7 million. He retired but the company is still struggling to get back on its feet.
remember 200 mil paid by home depot to nordelli.

Propa does not understand. He is a closet fakularist...

Criticizing CEO loot is not anti-capitalism. Why should the CEO of losing corporations get millions in pay and bonuses. If Capitalism is all about profits and reward for profits, then the losing corporations with high paying CEOs are the ones who are anti-capitalistic.l

What did Marisa mayer accomplish to warrant 14 mill for her 6 months of work with 3 of them on maternity leave. What did her predecessor achieve and why should she be given some $16 mil for 6 months? if she is THAT good why was she fired?... This is not capitalism this is Lootism.

once again you shoot off without understanding the underpinings of any society. you sitting in bumfuck kansas holding 2.875 shares of YHOO dont make decisions on how much the company CEO makes. that's decided by the BOD and influenced by majority shareholders. that is exactly how compensation for ppl at the top is decided. like any system there will be some inconsistencies like the outliers TBT is raising but those are corrected by capitalism in the most efficient manner known to mankind. you bellyaching abt how much marissa makes is the same as some rickshaw puller in bangladesh complaining that uppili makes 53.875 USD an hour working in the pharmacy and that's too much. you both are outside the capitalistic process that decides the price of mayer's services or uppili's medicine potlam wrapping services.

by Uppili Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:14 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:While usa is probably the most capitalism friendly nation in the world, it is not pure capitalism. Greed and selfishness are drivers of all economies all over the world for as long as we know.
The key to capitalism is its ability to price a product appropriatly. One can argue that most ceos do not measure up. I worked for a major corporation that made one of the worst deals in corporate history and ran both companies to ground. I could see his move is bad and the market saw it and took the stock down by several multiples. That guy earned 7 million. He retired but the company is still struggling to get back on its feet.
remember 200 mil paid by home depot to nordelli.

Propa does not understand. He is a closet fakularist...

Criticizing CEO loot is not anti-capitalism. Why should the CEO of losing corporations get millions in pay and bonuses. If Capitalism is all about profits and reward for profits, then the losing corporations with high paying CEOs are the ones who are anti-capitalistic.l

What did Marisa mayer accomplish to warrant 14 mill for her 6 months of work with 3 of them on maternity leave. What did her predecessor achieve and why should she be given some $16 mil for 6 months? if she is THAT good why was she fired?... This is not capitalism this is Lootism.

once again you shoot off without understanding the underpinings of any society. you sitting in bumfuck kansas holding 2.875 shares of YHOO dont make decisions on how much the company CEO makes. that's decided by the BOD and influenced by majority shareholders. that is exactly how compensation for ppl at the top is decided. like any system there will be some inconsistencies like the outliers TBT is raising but those are corrected by capitalism in the most efficient manner known to mankind. you bellyaching abt how much marissa makes is the same as some rickshaw puller in bangladesh complaining that uppili makes 53.875 USD an hour working in the pharmacy and that's too much. you both are outside the capitalistic process that decides the price of mayer's services or uppili's medicine potlam wrapping services.

first for the record, I do not - repeat - NOT make $53.875 an hour (They will be branded capitalist by me as well).

Now you did not answer why Marissa's fired predecessor was paid $16. if you say that is how capitalism works - then that is what I am calling it not flawed - but fraud. By your defintion paying loser CEOs is peak of capitalism, I call it peak of fraud.

Now dont give me that BoD shyt to me... in that case, you dont know shyt about how the BoD are appointed. Pick any 10 top companies from 10 different fields and look at those 10 BoD.

Then come and talk to me.

by Idéfix Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:that's decided by the BOD and influenced by majority shareholders. that is exactly how compensation for ppl at the top is decided.

In practice, boards are packed by CEOs with their buddies and majority shareholders can take a hike. Most shareholders in large public companies do not vote, so they do not have a voice. After all, Rajat Gupta was also a board member at some highly reputed companies. Incidentally, unbridled capitalism does produce ineffectual boards. Boards play much more robust roles in places like Germany, where employee representatives have seats at the board table.

by Uppili Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:42 am

trofimov wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:that's decided by the BOD and influenced by majority shareholders. that is exactly how compensation for ppl at the top is decided.
In practice, boards are packed by CEOs with their buddies and majority shareholders can take a hike. Most shareholders in large public companies do not vote, so they do not have a voice. After all, Rajat Gupta was also a board member at some highly reputed companies. Incidentally, unbridled capitalism does produce ineffectual boards. Boards play much more robust roles in places like Germany, where employee representatives have seats at the board table.

Exactemente... Funny that Propa - the capitalism's evengelist does not know this basic operating procedure of capitalism.

If I said what you said, he would have got even more upset - mainly bcz of preconceived notion about handles..... Wink

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:28 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:so if I understand your world view correctly, you want a state where no one owns guns, the state kills rapists and others accused on crimes without due process, hands, balls etc are chopped off routinely in a public square as deterrence, nuke it's neighbors, treat most minorities like second class citizens and also limits executive pay and throw everyone in jail for playing in a capitalist society, while taxing the rich heavily?

where would you find such a state? hmmmmm....the current mecca for mecca satisfies most of your requirements I think

Bwahaha..this must be the most accurate summary of wannabe-Muslim Upps Aunty's ideology (or what passes for one).

by Uppili Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:53 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:so if I understand your world view correctly, you want a state where no one owns guns, the state kills rapists and others accused on crimes without due process, hands, balls etc are chopped off routinely in a public square as deterrence, nuke it's neighbors, treat most minorities like second class citizens and also limits executive pay and throw everyone in jail for playing in a capitalist society, while taxing the rich heavily?

where would you find such a state? hmmmmm....the current mecca for mecca satisfies most of your requirements I think

Bwahaha..this must be the most accurate summary of wannabe-Muslim Upps Aunty's ideology (or what passes for one).

As expected from a typical gay koranist terrorist apologist such as Maulana Merlot.

by Propagandhi711 Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:55 am

Uppili wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:While usa is probably the most capitalism friendly nation in the world, it is not pure capitalism. Greed and selfishness are drivers of all economies all over the world for as long as we know.
The key to capitalism is its ability to price a product appropriatly. One can argue that most ceos do not measure up. I worked for a major corporation that made one of the worst deals in corporate history and ran both companies to ground. I could see his move is bad and the market saw it and took the stock down by several multiples. That guy earned 7 million. He retired but the company is still struggling to get back on its feet.
remember 200 mil paid by home depot to nordelli.

Propa does not understand. He is a closet fakularist...

Criticizing CEO loot is not anti-capitalism. Why should the CEO of losing corporations get millions in pay and bonuses. If Capitalism is all about profits and reward for profits, then the losing corporations with high paying CEOs are the ones who are anti-capitalistic.l

What did Marisa mayer accomplish to warrant 14 mill for her 6 months of work with 3 of them on maternity leave. What did her predecessor achieve and why should she be given some $16 mil for 6 months? if she is THAT good why was she fired?... This is not capitalism this is Lootism.

once again you shoot off without understanding the underpinings of any society. you sitting in bumfuck kansas holding 2.875 shares of YHOO dont make decisions on how much the company CEO makes. that's decided by the BOD and influenced by majority shareholders. that is exactly how compensation for ppl at the top is decided. like any system there will be some inconsistencies like the outliers TBT is raising but those are corrected by capitalism in the most efficient manner known to mankind. you bellyaching abt how much marissa makes is the same as some rickshaw puller in bangladesh complaining that uppili makes 53.875 USD an hour working in the pharmacy and that's too much. you both are outside the capitalistic process that decides the price of mayer's services or uppili's medicine potlam wrapping services.

first for the record, I do not - repeat - NOT make $53.875 an hour (They will be branded capitalist by me as well).

Now you did not answer why Marissa's fired predecessor was paid $16. if you say that is how capitalism works - then that is what I am calling it not flawed - but fraud. By your defintion paying loser CEOs is peak of capitalism, I call it peak of fraud.

Now dont give me that BoD shyt to me... in that case, you dont know shyt about how the BoD are appointed. Pick any 10 top companies from 10 different fields and look at those 10 BoD.

Then come and talk to me.

who the hell are you to decide what yahoo pays its outgoing CEO or its incoming one? they are not taking your tax monies, are they? they and they alone decide what the internal compensation structure should be.

there's something disingenious about desis travelling across the seas for a better paycheck and then whining about others making more, blaming it all on "corruption". commies.

by Hellsangel Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:56 am

It is interesting that the most liberal and rabid Dem supporters use the word gay as a slur.

by garam_kuta Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:00 am

uh..oh.. looks like 1-0-1 has been overlooked, hopefully inadvertently and changed to 0-1-1

by Propagandhi711 Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:11 am

trofimov wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:that's decided by the BOD and influenced by majority shareholders. that is exactly how compensation for ppl at the top is decided.
In practice, boards are packed by CEOs with their buddies and majority shareholders can take a hike. Most shareholders in large public companies do not vote, so they do not have a voice. After all, Rajat Gupta was also a board member at some highly reputed companies. Incidentally, unbridled capitalism does produce ineffectual boards. Boards play much more robust roles in places like Germany, where employee representatives have seats at the board table.

I like how you make rajat gupta sound like he's all corrupt and fucked everybody in sight just because he had passed some insider info about a behemoth to a friend. you must expect everyone to be pure as driven snow.

also, in this case did marissa mayer appoint her cronies as BOD members before she joined yahoo as CEO and had them give her outrageous compensation after the first quarter? how do you feel that worked?

by Idéfix Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:21 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:I like how you make rajat gupta sound like he's all corrupt and fucked everybody in sight just because he had passed some insider info about a behemoth to a friend.

So who do you think he was fucking when he revealed insider information about the behemoth to his friend? He was fucking the shareholders of that behemoth, and other market participants who were interested in the behemoth's stock. Just because they call it "white collar crime" doesn't make it victim-less, or any less of a crime than mugging a weak-looking person in a dark alley. If you owned stock in any company that had Gupta on its board, you are one of his victims.

Propagandhi711 wrote:you must expect everyone to be pure as driven snow.

I expect that there will be some bad apples among human beings. I expect that the system has enough checks and balances, including regulation, that catches those bad apples early, and doesn't allow them to screw over the rest of society.

Propagandhi711 wrote:also, in this case did marissa mayer appoint her cronies as BOD members before she joined yahoo as CEO and had them give her outrageous compensation after the first quarter? how do you feel that worked?

I was speaking about the overall system and how it is set up, and I have not said anything about Marissa Mayer's compensation or executive compensation in general. It is a fact that board governance is rather weak in America.

by truthbetold Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:40 pm

prop,
no govt role in ceo pay. every one agrees.
however, current bod system fail to pay for performance. the set up is akin to nepotism .
shareholder have to find a system that can reward good long term performance with rich rewards and exposes below par ceos.
no body is questioning money paid to Steve jobs or jack welch or buffet.
but ceo pay system is broke and it must be fixed.

by Propagandhi711 Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:37 pm

truthbetold wrote:prop,
no govt role in ceo pay. every one agrees.
however, current bod system fail to pay for performance. the set up is akin to nepotism .
shareholder have to find a system that can reward good long term performance with rich rewards and exposes below par ceos.
no body is questioning money paid to Steve jobs or jack welch or buffet.
but ceo pay system is broke and it must be fixed.

so the system will take care of them. if a companies BOD is corrupt and over paying for it's corrupt ceo and execs, the system will eventually collapse due to loss of competitiveness. instead of all this bellyaching regarding CEO pay which is little more than sour grapes, why not focus on where you actually have a say, namely govt inefficiencies, corruption and over taxation? that has more impact on your life than some random CEO making 40 times what uppili makes packing medicines in overland park KS.

by truthbetold Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:39 pm

as a shareholder of some
of these companies and as a stakeholder of us economy we have a right and responsibility to raise issues of concern. bringing govt into a discussion of corporate responsibility is
purely unnecessary.

the idea that system's correct themselves is fallacy. system's correction depends on interested party paying attention and raising issues. where necessary vocally pressing your point. human systems react to human pressure. change occurs because you initiate action.
blind faith in a system is no different than religious faith.

by Idéfix Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:55 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:so the system will take care of them. if a companies BOD is corrupt and over paying for it's corrupt ceo and execs, the system will eventually collapse due to loss of competitiveness.

It is better for society if it doesn't wait for that eventual collapse of the economy, but prevent a collapse by putting rules in place that restrict what executives and board members can do. That may feel "anti-capitalistic" to use your word from a post above, but those rules are what keep the system from imploding. Ideological purity sounds good on paper, but it leads to implosions like the one we got in 2007.

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