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Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Rishi Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:28 pm
The arrival of Muslims in India took place in three phases. They first arrived and settled in the coastal towns of South India as traders. They were welcomed by the rulers who gained from their commercial activities. As traders, they were peaceful people and maintained friendly relations with the local population by integrating into the local culture and traditions, learning local languages and marrying local women. Gradually, they became Indian. As they adopted the Indian culture, they disconnected their past affiliation and emotionally attached themselves to their adopted homeland. There was no contempt for the Indian culture and no yearning to revisit the past.
Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.
In Sindh, the Arabs arrived as conquerors, defeated the local ruler and occupied the country. As conquerors, their interest was to extract as many resources as possible from the vanquished country and convert the people to Islam. Politically, Sindh first became a part of the Umayyad and then the Abbasid Empires. It lost its independence and was ruled by the appointed governors of the Arab Caliphs. In this process, Sindh became disconnected from the subcontinent. The local non-Muslim population or the Zimmis were required to pay jizya or poll tax and were treated as second-rate subjects.
The impact of the Arab conquest is deep-rooted in the Sindhi society. Even today, Muslims of Arab descent or origin such as Sayyids, Qureshis, Ansaris and Abbasis are an elite class which enjoys a higher social status. Proud of their Arab origin, they refer to Sindh as Bab-ul-Islam or the gateway to Islam.
In North India, the Turks arrived as conquerors and fought bloody battles with the Rajput rulers who resisted them, creating a gulf between the conquerors and the defeated. The Turk rulers were not interested in converting people to Islam and focused on military intervention. Early invaders like Mahmud of Ghazni and Muhammad Ghori swept away wealth from the subcontinent to Ghazna. In 1206, when Qutbuddin Aibak became the ruler, India disconnected its relations with Ghazna.
The Sultans of Delhi ruled over India ruthlessly. They were prejudiced and did not allow other ethnic groups to share power. When the Lodhis became rulers, they replaced the Turkish supremacy with the Afghan hegemony while the Turkish elite class was swapped by the Afghans.
Babur defeated Ibrahim Lodhi in the Battle of Panipat in 1526. In Tuzk-i-Babri, Babur undermines the Indian culture while reminiscing about the climate and fruits of his homeland. He wished to be buried in Kabul instead of the hot climate of India. The character of the Mughal rule was changed by his grandson Akbar who Indianised the empire by cultivating egalitarian relations with Hindus.
During the Mughal reign, the Iranians continued to arrive at the Mughal court so foreign influence flourished. Persian being their mother tongue, they were welcomed and appointed at high posts without much competition. The Iranians were arrogant people and had a condescending attitude for the way the Indians spoke and wrote the Persian language. Shaikh Ali Hazin (d.1766) who arrived in India in the later Mughal period poured scorned on the Persian literary works of the Indians.
The linguistic imperialism created a sense of inferiority among Indians while language created a gulf between the ruling classes and the common people. They always looked up to the Iranians for approval of their language but the Iranians refused to accept it as part of their literature. The tragic result was that after the fall of the Mughal Empire, Persian literature created by Indian writers disappeared.
After the arrival of the British, English became the official language. The Indian elite learnt it and became a part of the ruling class. Those who composed English poetry and wrote short stories and novels in English perhaps suffered a fate similar to the Persian writers who wasted their creativity on foreign language and lost their work without a trace.
http://dawn.com/news/1030849/past-present-the-first-muslims-of-india/?commentPage=1&storyPage=1
Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.
In Sindh, the Arabs arrived as conquerors, defeated the local ruler and occupied the country. As conquerors, their interest was to extract as many resources as possible from the vanquished country and convert the people to Islam. Politically, Sindh first became a part of the Umayyad and then the Abbasid Empires. It lost its independence and was ruled by the appointed governors of the Arab Caliphs. In this process, Sindh became disconnected from the subcontinent. The local non-Muslim population or the Zimmis were required to pay jizya or poll tax and were treated as second-rate subjects.
The impact of the Arab conquest is deep-rooted in the Sindhi society. Even today, Muslims of Arab descent or origin such as Sayyids, Qureshis, Ansaris and Abbasis are an elite class which enjoys a higher social status. Proud of their Arab origin, they refer to Sindh as Bab-ul-Islam or the gateway to Islam.
In North India, the Turks arrived as conquerors and fought bloody battles with the Rajput rulers who resisted them, creating a gulf between the conquerors and the defeated. The Turk rulers were not interested in converting people to Islam and focused on military intervention. Early invaders like Mahmud of Ghazni and Muhammad Ghori swept away wealth from the subcontinent to Ghazna. In 1206, when Qutbuddin Aibak became the ruler, India disconnected its relations with Ghazna.
The Sultans of Delhi ruled over India ruthlessly. They were prejudiced and did not allow other ethnic groups to share power. When the Lodhis became rulers, they replaced the Turkish supremacy with the Afghan hegemony while the Turkish elite class was swapped by the Afghans.
Babur defeated Ibrahim Lodhi in the Battle of Panipat in 1526. In Tuzk-i-Babri, Babur undermines the Indian culture while reminiscing about the climate and fruits of his homeland. He wished to be buried in Kabul instead of the hot climate of India. The character of the Mughal rule was changed by his grandson Akbar who Indianised the empire by cultivating egalitarian relations with Hindus.
During the Mughal reign, the Iranians continued to arrive at the Mughal court so foreign influence flourished. Persian being their mother tongue, they were welcomed and appointed at high posts without much competition. The Iranians were arrogant people and had a condescending attitude for the way the Indians spoke and wrote the Persian language. Shaikh Ali Hazin (d.1766) who arrived in India in the later Mughal period poured scorned on the Persian literary works of the Indians.
The linguistic imperialism created a sense of inferiority among Indians while language created a gulf between the ruling classes and the common people. They always looked up to the Iranians for approval of their language but the Iranians refused to accept it as part of their literature. The tragic result was that after the fall of the Mughal Empire, Persian literature created by Indian writers disappeared.
After the arrival of the British, English became the official language. The Indian elite learnt it and became a part of the ruling class. Those who composed English poetry and wrote short stories and novels in English perhaps suffered a fate similar to the Persian writers who wasted their creativity on foreign language and lost their work without a trace.
http://dawn.com/news/1030849/past-present-the-first-muslims-of-india/?commentPage=1&storyPage=1
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Rishi Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:30 pm
Roger Rao
Roger
3 hours ago
Brilliant - historical honesty, a trait that is missing amongst many in South Asia today. May I request Dawn to send a copy of this article to Romilla Thapar and Mani Shankar Iyer? Hope people see in this acknowledgement and honesty an attempt to heal the political wounds that were left behind from history. Immensely grateful that this originates in Pakistan from a respectable institution (Dawn) - perhaps making it more palatable to several sections of this region.Roger
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:40 pm
Rishi wrote:The arrival of Muslims in India took place in three phases. They first arrived and settled in the coastal towns of South India as traders. They were welcomed by the rulers who gained from their commercial activities. As traders, they were peaceful people and maintained friendly relations with the local population by integrating into the local culture and traditions, learning local languages and marrying local women. Gradually, they became Indian. As they adopted the Indian culture, they disconnected their past affiliation and emotionally attached themselves to their adopted homeland. There was no contempt for the Indian culture and no yearning to revisit the past.
Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.
i have made this very point many times on sulekha and here. and each time i said it you never failed to dig up some aberrant incident when malayali or tamil muslims were involved in violence. what changed suddenly?
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Guest Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:52 pm
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Rishi wrote:The arrival of Muslims in India took place in three phases. They first arrived and settled in the coastal towns of South India as traders. They were welcomed by the rulers who gained from their commercial activities. As traders, they were peaceful people and maintained friendly relations with the local population by integrating into the local culture and traditions, learning local languages and marrying local women. Gradually, they became Indian. As they adopted the Indian culture, they disconnected their past affiliation and emotionally attached themselves to their adopted homeland. There was no contempt for the Indian culture and no yearning to revisit the past.
Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.
i have made this very point many times on sulekha and here. and each time i said it you never failed to dig up some aberrant incident when malayali or tamil muslims were involved in violence. what changed suddenly?
what about Bahamani kings, Nizams, Arcot Nawabs, etc. As i recall you were calling these south indian muslim kings 'knock off mughals'.
Guest- Guest
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Rishi Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:42 pm
[quote="MaxEntropy_Man"][quote="Rishi"][i]The arrival of Muslims in India took place in three phases. They first arrived and settled in the coastal towns of South India as traders. They were welcomed by the rulers who gained from their commercial activities. As traders, they were peaceful people and maintained friendly relations with the local population by integrating into the local culture and traditions, learning local languages and marrying local women. Gradually, they became Indian. As they adopted the Indian culture, they disconnected their past affiliation and emotionally attached themselves to their adopted homeland. There was no contempt for the Indian culture and no yearning to revisit the past.[/i]
[i]Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.[/i]
[/quote]
i have made this very point many times on sulekha and here. and each time i said it you never failed to dig up some aberrant incident when malayali or tamil muslims were involved in violence. what changed suddenly?
[/quote]
I just posted the article in the Dawn newspaper. I did not write it.
While it may be true that the Muslims came to Kerala as traders, it is also true that they have been intolerant in the later years.
What happened during Moplah rebellion is factual. Muslims in that part of Kerala were upset that Britishers got rid of Caliphate and thought the Hindus colluded with British. So they went around looting, rioting, raping and forcibly converting Hindus.
It is also a fact Tippu Sultan was a tyrant. He killed a lot of Hindus.
It is also true that Tamil and Kerala Muslims identify more with NI muslims than with Hindus in TN. I still remember witnessing in Mount Road a group of Tamil Muslims demanding that Babar Masjid be rebuilt. I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
[i]Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.[/i]
[/quote]
i have made this very point many times on sulekha and here. and each time i said it you never failed to dig up some aberrant incident when malayali or tamil muslims were involved in violence. what changed suddenly?
[/quote]
I just posted the article in the Dawn newspaper. I did not write it.
While it may be true that the Muslims came to Kerala as traders, it is also true that they have been intolerant in the later years.
What happened during Moplah rebellion is factual. Muslims in that part of Kerala were upset that Britishers got rid of Caliphate and thought the Hindus colluded with British. So they went around looting, rioting, raping and forcibly converting Hindus.
It is also a fact Tippu Sultan was a tyrant. He killed a lot of Hindus.
It is also true that Tamil and Kerala Muslims identify more with NI muslims than with Hindus in TN. I still remember witnessing in Mount Road a group of Tamil Muslims demanding that Babar Masjid be rebuilt. I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:10 pm
Rishi wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Rishi wrote:The arrival of Muslims in India took place in three phases. They first arrived and settled in the coastal towns of South India as traders. They were welcomed by the rulers who gained from their commercial activities. As traders, they were peaceful people and maintained friendly relations with the local population by integrating into the local culture and traditions, learning local languages and marrying local women. Gradually, they became Indian. As they adopted the Indian culture, they disconnected their past affiliation and emotionally attached themselves to their adopted homeland. There was no contempt for the Indian culture and no yearning to revisit the past.
Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.
These guys protest and indulge in riots in India if some american says something bad about Mahaamad.
SI muslims are tolerant and respectful of other religions is all a myth. That may have been true once upon a time. Not since the 80s.
i have made this very point many times on sulekha and here. and each time i said it you never failed to dig up some aberrant incident when malayali or tamil muslims were involved in violence. what changed suddenly?
I just posted the article in the Dawn newspaper. I did not write it.
While it may be true that the Muslims came to Kerala as traders, it is also true that they have been intolerant in the later years.
What happened during Moplah rebellion is factual. Muslims in that part of Kerala were upset that Britishers got rid of Caliphate and thought the Hindus colluded with British. So they went around looting, rioting, raping and forcibly converting Hindus.
It is also a fact Tippu Sultan was a tyrant. He killed a lot of Hindus.
It is also true that Tamil and Kerala Muslims identify more with NI muslims than with Hindus in TN. I still remember witnessing in Mount Road a group of Tamil Muslims demanding that Babar Masjid be rebuilt. I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
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Age : 110
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Kris Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:12 am
Rishi wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Rishi wrote:The arrival of Muslims in India took place in three phases. They first arrived and settled in the coastal towns of South India as traders. They were welcomed by the rulers who gained from their commercial activities. As traders, they were peaceful people and maintained friendly relations with the local population by integrating into the local culture and traditions, learning local languages and marrying local women. Gradually, they became Indian. As they adopted the Indian culture, they disconnected their past affiliation and emotionally attached themselves to their adopted homeland. There was no contempt for the Indian culture and no yearning to revisit the past.
Even today, the South Indian Muslims are tolerant towards other religions and believe in multicultural values.
i have made this very point many times on sulekha and here. and each time i said it you never failed to dig up some aberrant incident when malayali or tamil muslims were involved in violence. what changed suddenly?
I just posted the article in the Dawn newspaper. I did not write it.
While it may be true that the Muslims came to Kerala as traders, it is also true that they have been intolerant in the later years.
What happened during Moplah rebellion is factual. Muslims in that part of Kerala were upset that Britishers got rid of Caliphate and thought the Hindus colluded with British. So they went around looting, rioting, raping and forcibly converting Hindus.
It is also a fact Tippu Sultan was a tyrant. He killed a lot of Hindus.
It is also true that Tamil and Kerala Muslims identify more with NI muslims than with Hindus in TN. I still remember witnessing in Mount Road a group of Tamil Muslims demanding that Babar Masjid be rebuilt. I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
>>>>Come on now, you found this puzzling? Seriously?
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Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Idéfix Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:30 am
Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of Hindus in Pakistan?Rishi wrote:I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
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Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Guest Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:43 am
ha ha! good catch there.Idéfix wrote:Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of Hindus in Pakistan?Rishi wrote:I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
Guest- Guest
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Rishi Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:23 am
[quote="Huzefa Kapasi"][quote="Idéfix"][quote="Rishi"]I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.[/quote]
Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of [url=https://such.forumotion.com/t12829-why-the-congress-party-does-not-care-about-the-pakistani-hindus]Hindus in Pakistan[/url]?[/quote]
ha ha! good catch there. [/quote]
So are you saying the situation of Muslims in both NI and (as well SI) is the same as that of Hindus in Pakistan?
I have never heard of any Hindus of Pakistan rioting, killing Muslims there and setting them on fire.
Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of [url=https://such.forumotion.com/t12829-why-the-congress-party-does-not-care-about-the-pakistani-hindus]Hindus in Pakistan[/url]?[/quote]
ha ha! good catch there.
[/quote]So are you saying the situation of Muslims in both NI and (as well SI) is the same as that of Hindus in Pakistan?
I have never heard of any Hindus of Pakistan rioting, killing Muslims there and setting them on fire.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Idéfix Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:26 pm
That is strange logic, and let me illustrate it with the parallel question: are you saying that the situation of Hindus in both India and Pakistan is the same?Rishi wrote:Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ha ha! good catch there.Idéfix wrote:Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of Hindus in Pakistan?Rishi wrote:I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.
So are you saying the situation of Muslims in both NI and (as well SI) is the same as that of Hindus in Pakistan?
I have never heard of any Hindus of Pakistan rioting, killing Muslims there and setting them on fire.
I take it that your answer to my question is: no, you didn't wonder why on earth you are concerned about Hindus in Pakistan, but you do wonder why on earth Muslims in Tamil Nadu are concerned about something that happened to a Muslim shrine in NI.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Past present: The first Muslims of India
by Rishi Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:43 pm
[quote="Idéfix"][quote="Rishi"][quote="Huzefa Kapasi"][quote="Idéfix"][quote="Rishi"]I was wondering why on earth these guys were concerned about something that took place in NI.[/quote]
Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of [url=https://such.forumotion.com/t12829-why-the-congress-party-does-not-care-about-the-pakistani-hindus]Hindus in Pakistan[/url]?[/quote]
ha ha! good catch there.[/quote]
So [b]are you saying the situation of Muslims in both NI and (as well SI) is the same[/b] as that of Hindus in Pakistan?
I have never heard of any Hindus of Pakistan rioting, killing Muslims there and setting them on fire.
[/quote]
That is strange logic, and let me illustrate it with the parallel question: are [i]you[/i] saying that the situation of Hindus in both India and Pakistan is the same?
I take it that your answer to my question is: no, you didn't wonder why on earth you are concerned about Hindus in Pakistan, but you do wonder why on earth Muslims in Tamil Nadu are concerned about something that happened to a Muslim shrine in NI.[/quote]
Whatever it is, let me pose the following question.
Tomorrow India and Pakistan agree for an exchange of population. i.e Anyone with Indian citizenship who wants to migrate to Pakistan is allowed to do so. And anyone who is a Pakistani citizen is allowed to migrate to India.
What percentage of Indian Muslims would want to go Pakistan?
And what percentage of Hindus in Pakistan would want to still remain there?
Did you ever wonder why on earth you are concerned about the horrible situation of [url=https://such.forumotion.com/t12829-why-the-congress-party-does-not-care-about-the-pakistani-hindus]Hindus in Pakistan[/url]?[/quote]
ha ha! good catch there.
[/quote]So [b]are you saying the situation of Muslims in both NI and (as well SI) is the same[/b] as that of Hindus in Pakistan?
I have never heard of any Hindus of Pakistan rioting, killing Muslims there and setting them on fire.
[/quote]
That is strange logic, and let me illustrate it with the parallel question: are [i]you[/i] saying that the situation of Hindus in both India and Pakistan is the same?
I take it that your answer to my question is: no, you didn't wonder why on earth you are concerned about Hindus in Pakistan, but you do wonder why on earth Muslims in Tamil Nadu are concerned about something that happened to a Muslim shrine in NI.[/quote]
Whatever it is, let me pose the following question.
Tomorrow India and Pakistan agree for an exchange of population. i.e Anyone with Indian citizenship who wants to migrate to Pakistan is allowed to do so. And anyone who is a Pakistani citizen is allowed to migrate to India.
What percentage of Indian Muslims would want to go Pakistan?
And what percentage of Hindus in Pakistan would want to still remain there?
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
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