The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

by Rishi Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:30 am

: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/debate-on-over-catholic-church-properties/98453-3.html?utm_source=ref_article

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:34 am

Rishi wrote:
: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/debate-on-over-catholic-church-properties/98453-3.html?utm_source=ref_article

Catholicism and the catholic Church is a business conglomerate and must be treated as one.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:37 pm

Rishi wrote:
: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/debate-on-over-catholic-church-properties/98453-3.html?utm_source=ref_article

does this also count the hospitals and schools run by the church? if so whose fault is that? why aren't the hindu institutions starting more charitable organizations, hospitals, and schools? why not use thirupathi's income streams to build massive schools which provide high quality education free to AP students?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:21 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/debate-on-over-catholic-church-properties/98453-3.html?utm_source=ref_article
does this also count the hospitals and schools run by the church? if so whose fault is that? why aren't the hindu institutions starting more charitable organizations, hospitals, and schools? why not use thirupathi's income streams to build massive schools which provide high quality education free to AP students?

Sorry..... Why the hindu institutions dont start more hospitals and orphanages and conversion centers? That is a different question and that is not the point here.

Why shouldn't the Church Corporation be audited and brought under Government control?

B.S.: All hindu institutions run hospitals and schools ? Heard of Hospitals in Tirupathi and Sri Venkateswara University? Ramakrishna MIssion Schools and hospitals? RSS runs schools? The difference is the hindu institutions get money mostly from inside India from Hindus, whereas the Church Corp and Masjid Corp get money from here, there, everywhere and from Tora Bora and Popeland.

by rawemotions Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Worse, there are thousands of unregistered NGO's in India. When Chidu became home minister, he proposed something sensible, force all these NGO's to be registered and made to follow rules. In addition in he proposed that NGO's should declare their source of funds for any contribution more than Rs 10 Lakh.

But Congress Party never allowed that bill go through in Parliament. saying it would open a pandora's box and alleged that other parties SP and RJD would not support the bill and that they need their support for vote on Nuclear Deal. What Pandora's box will it open if the NGO's are only "serving" people? Worse they made a Deal with SP & Lalu (who opposed the bill - no surprises there) for Nuclear deal. But surprisingly, after that the Bill was never brought to the floor of parliament again, and given a quite burial!

by truthbetold Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:21 pm

Uppili,
Mac's question is very relevant. If Hindu institutions do not get the same treatment, you can raise a question. Are Hindu educational treated differently than Catholic hospitals and education institutions? Are Catholic property holdings treated differently from wakfs holdings or temple lands or urban property like marriage halls?

by rawemotions Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:08 pm

I do not see RBI in Kerala asking Catholic Institutions or Islamic Seminaries on the amount of gold they hold OR amount of wealth they hold. They are not even ask for the sources of their funds.

There is no specific government department to regulate their affairs, unlike direct government interference in Devaswom boards, where sometimes even Non-Hindus were appointed.

The NGO's run associated with these institutions have their own secrets! (no one knows why). The curriculum of Madrassas are not regulated. Nobody knows what is being taught there.

Minority institutions are allowed to have a reservation of 50% for Christians/Muslims . But Non-minority institutions are not allowed to have 50% reservation for Hindus. Please note that for example in Kerala, Hindus are already a minority, and according to reports, the poorest of the lot.

by truthbetold Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:21 pm

Raw,
Are trying to say Hindu institutions are treated differently than a minority institution? Ap high court ruled few years back that Muslim minority institutions can sell seats as mgmt quota (meaning they can charge donations) . No other institution was allowed to do so at that time. Catholic institutions demanded building funds from all freshly admitted students long before donation colleges were allowed.

If you add up all Hindu entity(ex: sai educational institutions and ttd supported institutions) related institutions, the total will be more than Catholic institutions. But that is a poor excuse for what more can be done to support the devotees that fund the larger temples.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:03 am

truthbetold wrote:Uppili,
Mac's question is very relevant. If Hindu institutions do not get the same treatment, you can raise a question. Are Hindu educational treated differently than Catholic hospitals and education institutions? Are Catholic property holdings treated differently from wakfs holdings or temple lands or urban property like marriage halls?

Does Catholic Church In India own any Indian newspapers .... how many and which ones?

Btw, since the Catholic institutions are the second biggest employer of people in India (according to the above article / news), are these hirings based on a preference to Catholics / Christians while bypassing the others? I once applied for a teaching job in Canada as a math teacher in a high school belonging to the Catholic Board (it's partly funded by the Govt.). The school authorities wanted me to submit a reference letter from my pastor (?), which I thought was unnecessary (considering I was applying for the job as a math teacher) and perhaps as a way to keep the non-Catholics / non-Christians out. Anyway, my application for the teaching job did not move beyond that point as I was unable to submit the required info. (letter of reference from my 'pastor').

by Hellsangel Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:59 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote: I once applied for a teaching job in Canada as a math teacher in a high school belonging to the Catholic Board (it's partly funded by the Govt.). The school authorities wanted me to submit a reference letter from my pastor (?), which I thought was unnecessary (considering I was applying for the job as a math teacher) and perhaps as a way to keep the non-Catholics / non-Christians out. Anyway, my application for the teaching job did not move beyond that point as I was unable to submit the required info. (letter of reference from my 'pastor').

Damn, Sevaji! They screwed you in India with Reservations and they screwed you in Canada for being a non-Catholic.

by confuzzled dude Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:36 pm

What's this world coming to. Catholic Churches are the new Indian feudal land lords; India will hold the distinction of becoming a minority majority nation err Muslim majority in 25 years sooner than the USA & UK. Luckily these goat-meat eating patriots (pretenders) can continue to play rabble-rousers from a long distance.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:31 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: I once applied for a teaching job in Canada as a math teacher in a high school belonging to the Catholic Board (it's partly funded by the Govt.). The school authorities wanted me to submit a reference letter from my pastor (?), which I thought was unnecessary (considering I was applying for the job as a math teacher) and perhaps as a way to keep the non-Catholics / non-Christians out. Anyway, my application for the teaching job did not move beyond that point as I was unable to submit the required info. (letter of reference from my 'pastor').
Damn, Sevaji! They screwed you in India with Reservations and they screwed you in Canada for being a non-Catholic.

HA, it was more of a surprise (their needing a reference from "my" pastor) rather than a disappointment in not being able to get the job of high school math teacher.

by Petrichor Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:41 pm

I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:46 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: I once applied for a teaching job in Canada as a math teacher in a high school belonging to the Catholic Board (it's partly funded by the Govt.). The school authorities wanted me to submit a reference letter from my pastor (?), which I thought was unnecessary (considering I was applying for the job as a math teacher) and perhaps as a way to keep the non-Catholics / non-Christians out. Anyway, my application for the teaching job did not move beyond that point as I was unable to submit the required info. (letter of reference from my 'pastor').
Damn, Sevaji! They screwed you in India with Reservations and they screwed you in Canada for being a non-Catholic.
HA, it was more of a surprise (their needing a reference from "my" pastor) rather than a disappointment in not being able to get the job of high school math teacher.

You should have walked into an episcopalian or an Universal Church and asked the "Pastor" Someone might have given you the letter.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:56 pm

Petrichor wrote:I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.

This whole thing made no sense to me. Moreover, I was not associated with any temple or priest, so there was no reason for me to ask someone in the capacity of my priest / pandit / pastor to write me a letter of reference for the high school math teaching job.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:02 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: I once applied for a teaching job in Canada as a math teacher in a high school belonging to the Catholic Board (it's partly funded by the Govt.). The school authorities wanted me to submit a reference letter from my pastor (?), which I thought was unnecessary (considering I was applying for the job as a math teacher) and perhaps as a way to keep the non-Catholics / non-Christians out. Anyway, my application for the teaching job did not move beyond that point as I was unable to submit the required info. (letter of reference from my 'pastor').
Damn, Sevaji! They screwed you in India with Reservations and they screwed you in Canada for being a non-Catholic.
HA, it was more of a surprise (their needing a reference from "my" pastor) rather than a disappointment in not being able to get the job of high school math teacher.
You should have walked into an episcopalian or an Universal Church and asked the "Pastor" Someone might have given you the letter.

I didn't think it that way.

by Petrichor Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:08 pm

You will be dealing with teenage boys...and girls, you see! See....in Tamil no...we have a saying....yeah. you are the fence..ok..in Tamil we say veli. The pastor is...is...onaan. tch tch...onaan means garden variety lizard. aiyooo...someone explain this to seva, nooooo (channeling the scriptwriter for Tabu's lines in Life of Pi)

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:16 pm

Petrichor wrote:You will be dealing with teenage boys...and girls, you see! See....in Tamil no...we have a saying....yeah. you are the fence..ok..in Tamil we say veli. The pastor is...is...onaan. tch tch...onaan means garden variety lizard. aiyooo...someone explain this to seva, nooooo (channeling the scriptwriter for Tabu's lines in Life of Pi)

You left too many blanks / dots in the above.

by rawemotions Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:48 pm

truthbetold wrote:Raw,
Are trying to say Hindu institutions are treated differently than a minority institution? Ap high court ruled few years back that Muslim minority institutions can sell seats as mgmt quota (meaning they can charge donations) . No other institution was allowed to do so at that time. Catholic institutions demanded building funds from all freshly admitted students long before donation colleges were allowed.

Yes! That is quite obvious isn't it ? You asked a question. Got your answer.
The concept is now abused in many places, especially in states like Kerala.

What does high court have to do with it! Their job is to just make sure that anything that is being done according to the law of the land. But they do not really display any judicial activism to ensure that all laws (especially entitlements) strictly follow constitution.

by Kris Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:59 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Petrichor wrote:I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.
This whole thing made no sense to me. Moreover, I was not associated with any temple or priest, so there was no reason for me to ask someone in the capacity of my priest / pandit / pastor to write me a letter of reference for the high school math teaching job.

>>>We tried to move our younger son to a private school a few years ago. Among the ones we looked at was a Christian school. I thought it would be like the mission schools in India where they don't necessarily push the religion aspect, but found out that religious instruction was a significant part in this school's case. Anyway, I remember the school asking for a letter from his pastor. We explained to them we didn't have one, but got him a recommendation from someone else. I don't know if that would made any difference. He absolutely refused to go to that school + I wasn't overly thrilled about the religion angle either. So, it was back to his old public school.

by Rishi Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 am

Kris wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Petrichor wrote:I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.
This whole thing made no sense to me. Moreover, I was not associated with any temple or priest, so there was no reason for me to ask someone in the capacity of my priest / pandit / pastor to write me a letter of reference for the high school math teaching job.
>>>We tried to move our younger son to a private school a few years ago. Among the ones we looked at was a Christian school. I thought it would be like the mission schools in India where they don't necessarily push the religion aspect, but found out that religious instruction was a significant part in this school's case. Anyway, I remember the school asking for a letter from his pastor. We explained to them we didn't have one, but got him a recommendation from someone else. I don't know if that would made any difference. He absolutely refused to go to that school + I wasn't overly thrilled about the religion angle either. So, it was back to his old public school.

Kris,

I already mentioned before.

I went to Corley High School which is being run by Church of South India. Most of the students were Hindus. We were forced to sing the Christian prayer songs daily before the classes started.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:38 am

Rishi wrote:
Kris wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Petrichor wrote:I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.
This whole thing made no sense to me. Moreover, I was not associated with any temple or priest, so there was no reason for me to ask someone in the capacity of my priest / pandit / pastor to write me a letter of reference for the high school math teaching job.
>>>We tried to move our younger son to a private school a few years ago. Among the ones we looked at was a Christian school. I thought it would be like the mission schools in India where they don't necessarily push the religion aspect, but found out that religious instruction was a significant part in this school's case. Anyway, I remember the school asking for a letter from his pastor. We explained to them we didn't have one, but got him a recommendation from someone else. I don't know if that would made any difference. He absolutely refused to go to that school + I wasn't overly thrilled about the religion angle either. So, it was back to his old public school.
Kris,

I already mentioned before.

I went to Corley High School which is being run by Church of South India. Most of the students were Hindus. We were forced to sing the Christian prayer songs daily before the classes started.

my cousins attended the dayanand anglovedic school. they all recited guru brahma, guru vishnu every morning. their christian friends who attended also joined in this prayer. i attended catholic schools and schools run by the CSI. while there was an expectation that we would say the lord's prayer and sing deva pitha etc., there was no one checking. many hindu boys would simply stay silent. i also had atheistic friends who chose to stay silent.

bottomline: do you think you got a decent education? do you feel damaged as a result of the expectation of morning prayer? did the school have a positive effect on your life? in my case the answers are yes, no, and yes.

by Petrichor Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:41 am

Catholic private schools in the US are the closest you will get to an Indian-style education here. We have gone from secular fancy-schmancy independent school to catholic school to public school in our time. Yes, they do go for Mass and the white vada and holy water routine and yes, you have to write intricate essays on the concept of Grace as per catholic theology but the discipline and attention to detail in those schools is something that a muslim tailor/kite seller from allahabad would be proud of.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:49 am

there was a time in my life when religion played a much greater role than it does now. certainly that was the case when i went to the CSI run school. so when i sang deva pitha enthan meippan allo ... (isn't the divine lord my shepherd?), i used to imagine it was about krishnA, and the line sirumai thAzchi adaigilEnE (i refuse to feel diminished), i used to think it was about the vaishnavite saint who was born untouchable, thiruppANAzhwAr.

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:51 am

I went to a Methodist school in hyderabad. It was pretty christianized. I did talk abt it many times on this forum. We were punished if we didn't attend the daily 40 min chappel service. We also had 'duty girls' in the morning chappel service who'd pick out girls who didn't sing the hymns or read the bible verses and taken to the head mistress for punishment. We were told again and again abt Christianity being the one and only true religion and Jesus being the only savior of our sins, etc.

I don't blame them. That's a christian school and what do we expect? Parents joined the kids in such schools because they didn't have a choice.

Christian school are not popular any more in India. There are many top notch schools run by hindus. None of my nieces and nephews back in india (both in chennai and hyd) attend any christian school. btw, those schools have hindu prayers (saraswati namasthubham, ganesha prayers, etc) recited everyday.

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:20 am

Petrichor wrote:Catholic private schools in the US are the closest you will get to an Indian-style education here. We have gone from secular fancy-schmancy independent school to catholic school to public school in our time. Yes, they do go for Mass and the white vada and holy water routine and yes, you have to write intricate essays on the concept of Grace as per catholic theology but the discipline and attention to detail in those schools is something that a muslim tailor/kite seller from allahabad would be proud of.

>>> I agree with you on the quality of the education. I went to a Catholic elementary school for the first 3 years and remember being confused by the 'our father who art in heaven' bit, but don't remember any specific religious push. Maybe I was just too young to notice. I also think it wouldn't have made much of a difference in India, where the majority of the student body is likely Hindu. A faith-based school in the US does come with the baggage of 'religious vs. secular'. One of my son's questions to me was 'how do they teach science there?' Anyway, he didn't care for a prep school atmosphere either and he is pretty happy in his public school.

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:32 am

Rishi wrote:
Kris wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Petrichor wrote:I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.
This whole thing made no sense to me. Moreover, I was not associated with any temple or priest, so there was no reason for me to ask someone in the capacity of my priest / pandit / pastor to write me a letter of reference for the high school math teaching job.
>>>We tried to move our younger son to a private school a few years ago. Among the ones we looked at was a Christian school. I thought it would be like the mission schools in India where they don't necessarily push the religion aspect, but found out that religious instruction was a significant part in this school's case. Anyway, I remember the school asking for a letter from his pastor. We explained to them we didn't have one, but got him a recommendation from someone else. I don't know if that would made any difference. He absolutely refused to go to that school + I wasn't overly thrilled about the religion angle either. So, it was back to his old public school.
Kris,

I already mentioned before.

I went to Corley High School which is being run by Church of South India. Most of the students were Hindus. We were forced to sing the Christian prayer songs daily before the classes started.

>>> I just saw this. I didn't know students were forced into these prayers in indian schools. Did it make a difference to you? I am asking this seriously. I went to Hindu schools after third grade and we did have to go to prayers, but don't recall paying any attention to this. I will have a problem with any kind of forced religious instruction and in the incident I have referenced, it became obvious fairly quickly that at some level this would be the case. This in turn led to my unease. My wife went to private Catholic schools (what are referred to as 'convent' schools in india) and couldn't understand why my son was resisting.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:55 am

Kris wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Petrichor wrote:I wonder if a 'reference' from a Hindu priest from the local temple might have helped your cause.
This whole thing made no sense to me. Moreover, I was not associated with any temple or priest, so there was no reason for me to ask someone in the capacity of my priest / pandit / pastor to write me a letter of reference for the high school math teaching job.
>>>We tried to move our younger son to a private school a few years ago. Among the ones we looked at was a Christian school. I thought it would be like the mission schools in India where they don't necessarily push the religion aspect, but found out that religious instruction was a significant part in this school's case. Anyway, I remember the school asking for a letter from his pastor. We explained to them we didn't have one, but got him a recommendation from someone else. I don't know if that would made any difference. He absolutely refused to go to that school + I wasn't overly thrilled about the religion angle either. So, it was back to his old public school.

That was not a consideration for me as I did not belong to any particular Hindu temple and had no Hindu priest / pandit for myself and my family.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:37 pm

kinnera wrote:I went to a Methodist school in hyderabad. It was pretty christianized. I did talk abt it many times on this forum. We were punished if we didn't attend the daily 40 min chappel service. We also had 'duty girls' in the morning chappel service who'd pick out girls who didn't sing the hymns or read the bible verses and taken to the head mistress for punishment. We were told again and again abt Christianity being the one and only true religion and Jesus being the only savior of our sins, etc.

I don't blame them. That's a christian school and what do we expect? Parents joined the kids in such schools because they didn't have a choice.

Christian school are not popular any more in India. There are many top notch schools run by hindus. None of my nieces and nephews back in india (both in chennai and hyd) attend any christian school. btw, those schools have hindu prayers (saraswati namasthubham, ganesha prayers, etc) recited everyday.

Well, I went to Loyola College in Vijayawada (those days, it was the best college in our area). We used to have a "moral" class, once a week. The "father" used to create a situation where he compares some local customs (Hindu) with what he describes as enlightened ways (Christian). I used to expose his "extremely brilliant" ways of twisting the facts. I was fined a few times and my father received a letter that I was disruptive in the class, etc. Of course, my father knew me better. :-)

by Seva Lamberdar Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:44 pm

"Of course, my father knew me better." ... V.P.

>>> I guess the saying "father knows best" is quite true.

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The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

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Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.

Re: The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agricultural land, and is known as the second largest employer after the Government of India.