On Iraq: Was it a complete failure?

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:55 pm

"The Iraq war may have never been declared lost. But the stunning surge in violence over the past year — and the return of al-Qaeda in the western province of Anbar this month — is forcing Americans who invested personally in the war’s success to grapple with haunting questions.

Could someone smart convince me that the black flag of al-Qaeda flying over Fallujah isn’t analogous to the fall of Saigon?” former Army captain Matt Gallagher asked on Twitter"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-veterans-despondent-over-al-qaedas-resurgence-in-iraq/2014/01/10/ad692918-7a2a-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html?hpid=z4

-> Doesn't matter whether it is '50s, '60s or '00s, same end result. We seem to have a knack to end up on the losing side but the bigger question is, will we ever learn from these mistakes, hopefully someday, preferably before annotated in the annals of history as "The superpower that lost more wars than won"

by truthbetold Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:08 pm

Usa won the Iraq war. But it lost peace. Winning in peace means winning the people over, solving their problems and creating sustainable institutions. Usa tried but shia/sunni divide destroyed all gains and consumed the goodwil.

There is no use in blaming ourselves for a historic problem we cannot solve.

by Hellsangel Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:19 pm

WaPo warrior wants to gloat about how "we" lost. He conveniently forgets that it is the Iraqis who lost this for themselves now.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:35 pm

truthbetold wrote:Usa won the Iraq war. But it lost peace. Winning in peace means winning the people over, solving their problems and creating sustainable institutions. Usa tried but shia/sunni divide destroyed all gains and consumed the goodwil.

There is no use in blaming ourselves for a historic problem we cannot solve.

Won as in removing Saddam, in due course replaced an evil with a monster. There was no Al-Qaeda presence in Iraq prior to American invasion, look now. Courtesy of America Iraqis feel like out of the frying pan, into the fire. Let's not even talk about the damage done to American economy.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:38 pm

Hellsangel wrote:WaPo warrior wants to gloat about how "we" lost. He conveniently forgets that it is the Iraqis who lost this for themselves now.

Truth hurts, aint? We killed 100s of thousands of civilians, now it is al-qaeda's turn. Who cares, It's Iraq's inability, right?

by Hellsangel Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:47 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:WaPo warrior wants to gloat about how "we" lost. He conveniently forgets that it is the Iraqis who lost this for themselves now.
Truth hurts, aint? We killed 100s of thousands of civilians, now it is al-qaeda's turn. Who cares, It's Iraq's inability, right?

You and your fellow kebab lovers should be happy. The "Great Satan" could not solve Iraq's problems. Now Allah will.

by Rishi Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:08 pm

What is this "we" about? Looks like you are more patriotic about America than your neighbor Joe Smith.

Are you going to call Indians in India (which includes your cousins, siblings and parents) as "they"?

by truthbetold Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:20 pm

Rishi wrote:What is this "we" about? Looks like you are more patriotic about America than your neighbor Joe Smith.

Are you going to call Indians in India (which includes your cousins, siblings and parents) as "they"?

Rishi,
what took you so long to recognize?
most of us here are fully vested in American future and its success. Our children's future is here.
It is not unusual for people with different ethnic origin showing affinity to their country of origin. Indians are little more attached to India since their religion is more or less limited to India.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:33 pm

Rishi wrote:What is this "we" about? Looks like you are more patriotic about America than your neighbor Joe Smith.

Are you going to call Indians in India (which includes your cousins, siblings and parents) as "they"?

Is that inappropriate reference Rishi even after having lived as many years in this country as I did in India

by truthbetold Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:37 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Usa won the Iraq war. But it lost peace. Winning in peace means winning the people over, solving their problems and creating sustainable institutions. Usa tried but shia/sunni divide destroyed all gains and consumed the goodwil.

There is no use in blaming ourselves for a historic problem we cannot solve.
Won as in removing Saddam, in due course replaced an evil with a monster. There was no Al-Qaeda presence in Iraq prior to American invasion, look now. Courtesy of America Iraqis feel like out of the frying pan, into the fire. Let's not even talk about the damage done to American economy.

it is Usa role that got al-queda into Syria, Sudan, Mali, Nigeria, and Congo etc.
That whole al - queda thing is a straw man argument. Al-queda is not a country or an army. It is an idea or philosophy like communism. Wherever Sunni Muslims want to fight for power, one of the extreme factions will claim al-queda franchise. In Iraq, Sunni Muslims are fighting shias because they feel alieanated by ruling shias. Those ruling shias made it impossible for Usa to keep forces in Iraq. Syrian conflict also ignites these conflicts. The troubled areas are closer to. Syrian border. Usa has no role nor any chance to participate in these events. Usa public is also not willing. Past history, whether right or wrong, happened. Present is Iraqi problem.

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