Washington to N.Y. on a single tank of (Hydrogen) Gas

by confuzzled dude Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:23 am

"It sounds like science fiction — a car that runs on hydrogen gas, spits nothing but water vapor out the tailpipe, and can take you from Washington to New York City on a single tank.

But after a long and bumpy road from futuristic concept car to real-world production vehicle, the first mass-produced hydrogen-powered cars will hit dealerships this spring in the United States, and they are on display this week at the Washington Auto Show.

How soon you’ll see them on the roads in our region remains to be seen, as auto manufacturers, fueling companies and policymakers look for ways to tackle serious challenges that now stand in the way — not the least of which is where do you refuel with hydrogen."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/hydrogen-cars-met-with-mix-of-excitement-and-skepticism-in-washington/2014/01/26/5b4b3e28-842a-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Not sure if fossil fuels lobby will let this come to fruition anytime soon

by Hellsangel Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:24 am

confuzzled dude wrote:"It sounds like science fiction — a car that runs on hydrogen gas, spits nothing but water vapor out the tailpipe, and can take you from Washington to New York City on a single tank.

But after a long and bumpy road from futuristic concept car to real-world production vehicle, the first mass-produced hydrogen-powered cars will hit dealerships this spring in the United States, and they are on display this week at the Washington Auto Show.

How soon you’ll see them on the roads in our region remains to be seen, as auto manufacturers, fueling companies and policymakers look for ways to tackle serious challenges that now stand in the way — not the least of which is where do you refuel with hydrogen."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/hydrogen-cars-met-with-mix-of-excitement-and-skepticism-in-washington/2014/01/26/5b4b3e28-842a-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Not sure if fossil fuels lobby will let this come to fruition anytime soon

I guess you haven't heard of the BMW i3 or the Tesla Model S.

by confuzzled dude Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:34 am

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:"It sounds like science fiction — a car that runs on hydrogen gas, spits nothing but water vapor out the tailpipe, and can take you from Washington to New York City on a single tank.

But after a long and bumpy road from futuristic concept car to real-world production vehicle, the first mass-produced hydrogen-powered cars will hit dealerships this spring in the United States, and they are on display this week at the Washington Auto Show.

How soon you’ll see them on the roads in our region remains to be seen, as auto manufacturers, fueling companies and policymakers look for ways to tackle serious challenges that now stand in the way — not the least of which is where do you refuel with hydrogen."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/hydrogen-cars-met-with-mix-of-excitement-and-skepticism-in-washington/2014/01/26/5b4b3e28-842a-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Not sure if fossil fuels lobby will let this come to fruition anytime soon

I guess you haven't heard of the BMW i3 or the Tesla Model S.

I drove Tesla S, a friend of mine owns one. So what about it?

by Hellsangel Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:36 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:"It sounds like science fiction — a car that runs on hydrogen gas, spits nothing but water vapor out the tailpipe, and can take you from Washington to New York City on a single tank.

But after a long and bumpy road from futuristic concept car to real-world production vehicle, the first mass-produced hydrogen-powered cars will hit dealerships this spring in the United States, and they are on display this week at the Washington Auto Show.

How soon you’ll see them on the roads in our region remains to be seen, as auto manufacturers, fueling companies and policymakers look for ways to tackle serious challenges that now stand in the way — not the least of which is where do you refuel with hydrogen."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/hydrogen-cars-met-with-mix-of-excitement-and-skepticism-in-washington/2014/01/26/5b4b3e28-842a-11e3-9dd4-e7278db80d86_story.html?hpid=z5

-> Not sure if fossil fuels lobby will let this come to fruition anytime soon

I guess you haven't heard of the BMW i3 or the Tesla Model S.

I drove Tesla S, a friend of mine owns one. So what about it?

What fossil fuel does it run on? Since you seem so quick to blame the fossil fuel lobby.

by indophile Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:05 am

Tesla is an electric car, right? So it runs on electricity which is produced mostly by burning coal/oil/gas. Solar/wind etc is very relatively a very small portion.

by Hellsangel Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:11 am

indophile wrote:Tesla is an electric car, right? So it runs on electricity which is produced mostly by burning coal/oil/gas. Solar/wind etc is very relatively a very small portion.

About 20% of electricity is produced from nuclear power. Maybe that is the way to go.

by indophile Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:33 am

Hellsangel wrote:
indophile wrote:Tesla is an electric car, right? So it runs on electricity which is produced mostly by burning coal/oil/gas. Solar/wind etc is very relatively a very small portion.

About 20% of electricity is produced from nuclear power. Maybe that is the way to go.

I doubt if they will let Nuclear come back again in this country after what happened in TMI, Chernobyl, and the latest one in Japan.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:19 pm

indophile wrote:Tesla is an electric car, right? So it runs on electricity which is produced mostly by burning coal/oil/gas. Solar/wind etc is very relatively a very small portion.

the wapo article is a gross overstatement. the car runs on hydrogen, but hydrogen doesn't occur naturally. it has to be produced chemically from natural gas (methane) or coal, both of which are fossil fuels. today tonnage hydrogen is made by a chemical process called steam-methane reformation (SMR), a highly endothermic, meaning heat energy consuming, reaction. the SMR process as the name suggests is very much a fossil fuel consuming process, and the byproducts of the SMR reaction in addition to hydrogen contain carbon dioxide which is a greenhouse gas. the CO2 is removed before the hydrogen is packaged up and transported for use. so yes, no CO2 from the tailpipe but very much in the flue gas of the chemical plant where the hydrogen is made.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:25 pm

this is why it is important to consider well to wheel efficiencies and emissions while calculating things such as carbon dioxide emissions. i am very much a clean energy enthusiast, but there are a lot of smoke and mirrors in this business with every lobby showing its share of the activity in the most positive light. this fuel cell car is an example. there are definitely some efficiency gains and emissions reductions, but i'd like to see the numbers. this business of water that can be sipped from the tailpipe statement puts a big huge rug to hide the chemical plant upstream that is making and supplying the hydrogen and in the process generating CO2 emissions.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:32 pm

and the idea of using solar power to make hydrogen through electrolysis sounds a bit ridiculous to me. i suppose you could do that when you have off peak generation, but to convert highly valuable peak electricity, even if it is solar generated into hydrogen, which is then utilized to make electricity back again (in the car) seems like a non-starter from the standpoint of thermodynamics. you always lose.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:47 pm

and it annoys me that journalists from a top shelf newspaper like the wapo don't ask more critical questions of the people who feed them this stuff. a disservice to the public.

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