An older Atlanitc article on Modi

by Kris Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:04 pm

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/indias-new-face/307332/

by rawemotions Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:09 pm

All this attention to Modi makes sense if and when he becomes PM. Until then this is all Hot air.

by Guest Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:19 pm

What local human-rights groups label the “pogrom” began with the incineration of 58 Hindu train passengers on February 27, 2002, in Godhra, a town with a large Muslim population and a stop on the rail journey from Gujarat to Uttar Pradesh, in north-central India. The Muslims who reportedly started the fire had apparently been taunted by other Hindus who had passed through en route to Ayodhya, in Uttar Pradesh, on their way to demonstrate for a Hindu temple to be built on the site of a demolished Mughal mosque. Recently installed as chief minister, Modi decreed February 28 a day of mourning, so that the passengers’ funerals could be held in downtown Ahmedabad, Gujarat’s largest city. “It was a clear invitation to violence,” writes Edward Luce, the Financial Times correspondent in India, in his book, In Spite of the Gods: The Strange Rise of Modern India. “The Muslim quarters of Ahmedabad and other cities in Gujarat turned into death traps as thousands of Hindu militants converged on them.” In the midst of the riots, Modi approvingly quoted Newton’s third law: “Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.” Mobs coalesced and Hindu men raped Muslim women, before pouring kerosene down their throats and the throats of their children, then setting them all on fire. Muslim men were forced to watch the ritualistic killings before they, too, were put to death. More than 400 women were raped; 2,000 people, overwhelmingly Muslim, murdered; and 200,000 more made homeless throughout the state.

The killers were dressed in saffron scarves and khaki shorts, the uniform of the RSS, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (Organization of National Volunteers)—the umbrella group of the Hindu nationalist movement—and came armed with swords and gas cylinders, as well as electoral registers and computer printouts of addresses. The police stood by and observed the killings, and in some cases, according to Human Rights Watch, helped the rioters locate Muslim addresses. As for the 200,000 made homeless, the Gujarati state government provided very little in the way of relief, or compensation for the loss of life and businesses. Today, much of Ahmedabad’s Muslim population remains sequestered in squalid relief communities that Modi once called “baby-making factories.”

by Guest Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:27 pm

Modi has also done nothing about the communal cantons that have sprung up under his rule. Now Ahmedabad’s old walled city is one of the only areas where Muslims—who make up 9 percent of the city’s population—and Hindus can really mix. The most poignant scene I came across during two weeks of wandering around Ahmedabad was at the Sarkhej Roza, the 15th-century mosque-and-tomb complex dedicated to Sheikh Ahmed Khattu, the spiritual adviser to Ahmed Shah. Amid the medieval domes and balconies overlooking a water tank, families picnicked, young couples whispered, children played ball, and young men attended prayer meetings. The architecture, with its elegant stucco and grillwork, blended Islamic and Hindu styles in a composite known as Indo-Saracenic. But at least until the park-and-waterfront project is completed, there is no corresponding mixing of peoples in Ahmedabad today: the crowd at the Sarkhej Roza was exclusively Muslim.

---

All over India, hindus and muslims both visit sufi shrines which host the tombs of renowned sufi spiritual figures. The reason is that sufis would sing in praise of the one God, and their songs would include prayers to Allah but also to Shiva, Krishna, etc. If hindus in Gujarat have stopped visiting sufi shrines it would be something that would make Gujarat different from the rest of India.

by Guest Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:30 pm

Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

by Kris Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything. If HL is referring to the communal disharmony and animosity, that would exist independent of Modi. Besides, that is not the only issue on the Indian voters' mind. Issues such as economics and corruption-free governance seem to loom large. As I said in a previous post, if Congress wants to win on the basis of being the better party all the way around, it needs to have a plank and a candidate that shows the public that it means business in taking the country forward. If it is against Modi on being genuinely evil, it needs to show that he is guilty of what it is accusing him of. Investigations for over a decade have not been able to pin anything on him. Even if he is extremely cunning, given Congress's hold on power, this seems very strange. Now, we see various prominent muslims backing him. I don't vote in India, but I can see why even people who may have had misgivings about Modi may be coming around to his side now.

by rawemotions Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:09 pm

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything.

Well said Kris. Many Hindus do not vote for Modi but they do not make a song and dance about it.

Regarding the last question.

What are Muslims doing today about the Political Islamists Mahmud of Ghaznis types today in Pakistan, Bangladesh,Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, J&K, Assam, North Kerala, Hyderabad , West Bengal and in Tamilnadu ? That is the main Problem!

Edmund Burke said, all it takes for Evil is for Good Men to do nothing. We have classic examples of those in India and world over. These idiots will spend time coming to these sites writing bull shit, but will never taken on the Political Islamists in their midst, who have usurped power using Koran and Sharia and seek to impose it on everybody else around.

by Kris Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:33 pm

rawemotions wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything.
Well said Kris. Many Hindus do not vote for Modi but they do not make a song and dance about it.

Regarding the last question.

What are Muslims doing today about the Political Islamists Mahmud of Ghaznis types today in Pakistan, Bangladesh,Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, J&K, Assam, North Kerala, Hyderabad , West Bengal and in Tamilnadu ? That is the main Problem!

Edmund Burke said, all it takes for Evil is for Good Men to do nothing. We have classic examples of those in India and world over. These idiots will spend time coming to these sites writing bull shit, but will never taken on the Political Islamists in their midst, who have usurped power using Koran and Sharia and seek to impose it on everybody else around.

>>> One of the dynamics that the article references is conditions in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan etc, which the public presumably factors into the calculus. In other words, it is not just localized communal tensions that are at play here.

by Guest Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:04 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything. If HL is referring to the communal disharmony and animosity, that would exist independent of Modi. Besides, that is not the only issue on the Indian voters' mind. Issues such as economics and corruption-free governance seem to loom large. As I said in a previous post, if Congress wants to win on the basis of being the better party all the way around, it needs to have a plank and a candidate that shows the public that it means business in taking the country forward. If it is against Modi on being genuinely evil, it needs to show that he is guilty of what it is accusing him of. Investigations for over a decade have not been able to pin anything on him. Even if he is extremely cunning, given Congress's hold on power, this seems very strange. Now, we see various prominent muslims backing him. I don't vote in India, but I can see why even people who may have had misgivings about Modi may be coming around to his side now.

communal disharmony and animosity had existed even during Akbar's time but he had managed to diffuse them to a large extent. They flourished again during Aurangzeb's time because Aurangzeb was inherently communal. Modi may be compared to (a mirror image of) Aurangzeb. Modi never fails to take a poke at muslims. For instance, claiming that he felt regret at the 2002 killings of muslims in the same way as he would feel regret if a puppy gets run over by a car. In the original hindi, the phrase used by Modi was not puppy but 'kuttey ka bachcha' (son of a dog). Surely this was an unfortunate and inappropriately phrased analogy at best and an attempt to again insert communal poison in the polity at worst. Some other details:

Images can reveal what words try to conceal. But the most reliable guide to what Mr. Modi really stands for and promises, is his own language. This language is saturated with Hindu piety, religious chauvinism, contempt for Muslims, and the fears and fantasies of Hindutva nationalism. This is a man who equated Muslims killed in 2002 with a puppy run over by a car. Whose popular campaign slogans are “Har Har Modi” and “Namo NaMo.” Who said that rhinoceroses are being hunted in Assam to clear space for illegal Bangladeshi Muslim immigrants. Who referred to Rahul Gandhi as “Shehzada” and Sonia Gandhi as “Sultana” — using Persianate terms in Urdu for royalty to designate, at one go, the dynastic nature of the Nehru-Gandhi family as well as the “foreign” origins of its most prominent members. Who dismissed genocidal violence against Muslims as the “reaction” of the “action” that consisted of the Godhra train fire in which 59 Hindu kar sevaks returning from Ayodhya were killed in February 2002 — the infamous kriya-pratikriya remark.

This is the man who parsed being a Hindu Nationalist as “I am a Hindu and I am a nationalist.” Who glossed “true government” as dharma, the Constitution as a “Holy Book” and public service as puja (i.e., worship, in the religious sense). Who characterised relief camps for displaced 2002 survivors — most of them Muslim — as “baby-making factories.” These are examples of phrases not including his innumerable personal insults and digs at rival politicians, notably Prime Minister Manmohan Singh (whom Mr. Modi called “Maun Mohan Singh,” thereby deriding his silence in various corruption scandals that surfaced during his tenure as Prime Minister), and Aam Aadmi Party leader Arvind Kejriwal (whom he called “AK49” — alluding to the 49 days of his Chief Ministership of Delhi from December 2013 to February 2014, and simultaneously to the AK47 rifle used most often in Kashmir’s separatist militancy for the past 25 years, thereby implying that Mr. Kejriwal is an anti-India insurgent of sorts).

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/what-lies-beneath-what-lies-ahead/article5888079.ece

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:01 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything. If HL is referring to the communal disharmony and animosity, that would exist independent of Modi. Besides, that is not the only issue on the Indian voters' mind. Issues such as economics and corruption-free governance seem to loom large. As I said in a previous post, if Congress wants to win on the basis of being the better party all the way around, it needs to have a plank and a candidate that shows the public that it means business in taking the country forward. If it is against Modi on being genuinely evil, it needs to show that he is guilty of what it is accusing him of. Investigations for over a decade have not been able to pin anything on him. Even if he is extremely cunning, given Congress's hold on power, this seems very strange. Now, we see various prominent muslims backing him. I don't vote in India, but I can see why even people who may have had misgivings about Modi may be coming around to his side now.

The dupe-faced iSlamis of India want to have it both ways. They lose no time in singing the praise of Ghazni, Ghori, Aurangazeb, and the 1000 yr golden muslim rule starting in 1200 AD at every opportunity (watch the youtube of their Pakistani "brothers"), but when it comes to the 10,000 temples destroyed and millions killed by muslims over a millenium, they plead ignorance.

by confuzzled dude Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:16 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything. If HL is referring to the communal disharmony and animosity, that would exist independent of Modi. Besides, that is not the only issue on the Indian voters' mind. Issues such as economics and corruption-free governance seem to loom large. As I said in a previous post, if Congress wants to win on the basis of being the better party all the way around, it needs to have a plank and a candidate that shows the public that it means business in taking the country forward. If it is against Modi on being genuinely evil, it needs to show that he is guilty of what it is accusing him of. Investigations for over a decade have not been able to pin anything on him. Even if he is extremely cunning, given Congress's hold on power, this seems very strange. Now, we see various prominent muslims backing him. I don't vote in India, but I can see why even people who may have had misgivings about Modi may be coming around to his side now.

The dupe-faced iSlamis of India want to have it both ways. They lose no time in singing the praise of Ghazni, Ghori, Aurangazeb, and the 1000 yr golden muslim rule starting in 1200 AD at every opportunity (watch the youtube of their Pakistani "brothers"), but when it comes to the 10,000 temples destroyed and millions killed by muslims over a millenium, they plead ignorance.

Completely agreed. Who else is better suited than our god NaMo to take us forward err.. back to the 1500s; They say India was prosperous back then (at least perceived as one)

by Guest Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:21 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything. If HL is referring to the communal disharmony and animosity, that would exist independent of Modi. Besides, that is not the only issue on the Indian voters' mind. Issues such as economics and corruption-free governance seem to loom large. As I said in a previous post, if Congress wants to win on the basis of being the better party all the way around, it needs to have a plank and a candidate that shows the public that it means business in taking the country forward. If it is against Modi on being genuinely evil, it needs to show that he is guilty of what it is accusing him of. Investigations for over a decade have not been able to pin anything on him. Even if he is extremely cunning, given Congress's hold on power, this seems very strange. Now, we see various prominent muslims backing him. I don't vote in India, but I can see why even people who may have had misgivings about Modi may be coming around to his side now.

The dupe-faced iSlamis of India want to have it both ways. They lose no time in singing the praise of Ghazni, Ghori, Aurangazeb, and the 1000 yr golden muslim rule starting in 1200 AD at every opportunity (watch the youtube of their Pakistani "brothers"), but when it comes to the 10,000 temples destroyed and millions killed by muslims over a millenium, they plead ignorance.

what about the numerous budhist monastaries destroyed in India and Sri Lanka by Hindu kings and the numerous budhists killed or driven away by hindu rulers. Further, what about numerous low caste hindus humiliated or killed by hindu rulers?

Budhism had at one time become quite well spread throughout India. Did Hindus kill Budhism in India?

by Propagandhi711 Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:53 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Either Modi will fit his managerial genius to the service of that idea, or he will stay where he is. Hindus elsewhere in India are less communal-minded than those in Gujarat, and that will be his dilemma....I also couldn’t help but think of what Hanif Lakdawala had asked me, in a plea as much as a question: “What can we poor Muslims of today do about Mahmud of Ghazni?”

>>>That is a valid point, but Modi does not seem to be asking them to do anything. If HL is referring to the communal disharmony and animosity, that would exist independent of Modi. Besides, that is not the only issue on the Indian voters' mind. Issues such as economics and corruption-free governance seem to loom large. As I said in a previous post, if Congress wants to win on the basis of being the better party all the way around, it needs to have a plank and a candidate that shows the public that it means business in taking the country forward. If it is against Modi on being genuinely evil, it needs to show that he is guilty of what it is accusing him of. Investigations for over a decade have not been able to pin anything on him. Even if he is extremely cunning, given Congress's hold on power, this seems very strange. Now, we see various prominent muslims backing him. I don't vote in India, but I can see why even people who may have had misgivings about Modi may be coming around to his side now.

The dupe-faced iSlamis of India want to have it both ways. They lose no time in singing the praise of Ghazni, Ghori, Aurangazeb, and the 1000 yr golden muslim rule starting in 1200 AD at every opportunity (watch the youtube of their Pakistani "brothers"), but when it comes to the 10,000 temples destroyed and millions killed by muslims over a millenium, they plead ignorance.
Completely agreed. Who else is better suited than our god NaMo to take us forward err.. back to the 1500s; They say India was prosperous back then (at least perceived as one)

no but your nephew is eminently suited, right? or dynamic sonia-MMS-rahul combo with 110 points IQ between them, MMS supplying 108 of them

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:16 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Completely agreed. Who else is better suited than our god NaMo to take us forward err.. back to the 1500s; They say India was prosperous back then (at least perceived as one)

Well...NaMo may take the country back to 1500 in about 25 years (at least it will put India back in the hindu days.) The alternative is the iSlamo-centric parties will India back to 1000 in just 10 years at current speed (it will land us in prime iSlamic era).

by Guest Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:30 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Completely agreed. Who else is better suited than our god NaMo to take us forward err.. back to the 1500s; They say India was prosperous back then (at least perceived as one)

Well...NaMo may take the country back to 1500 in about 25 years (at least it will put India back in the hindu days.) The alternative is the iSlamo-centric parties will India back to 1000 in just 10 years at current speed (it will land us in prime iSlamic era).

how about taking the country even further back to the Budhist era? No doubt peace and harmony would prevail over the land if India becomes the epicenter of Budhism once again.

by SomeProfile Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:45 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Completely agreed. Who else is better suited than our god NaMo to take us forward err.. back to the 1500s; They say India was prosperous back then (at least perceived as one)

Well...NaMo may take the country back to 1500 in about 25 years (at least it will put India back in the hindu days.) The alternative is the iSlamo-centric parties will India back to 1000 in just 10 years at current speed (it will land us in prime iSlamic era).

how about taking the country even further back to the Budhist era? No doubt peace and harmony would prevail over the land if India becomes the epicenter of Budhism once again.

Buddhists are the latest people to be pushed so far by Muslims as to indulge in violence. Buddhists are kicking Muslim ass in Burma. So, I don't think India becoming a Buddhist country is a solution to the Islamic problem.

Ab ki baar, Modi sarkar! Basketball

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