NI vs SI: Why are South Indians so smart?

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Why do you peddle these web sites that do not have any credibility? you just want to stir the pot. Isn't it? 

South Indians are not that different from north Indians. The simple truth is there are more south indians seeking economic upliftment through education and hardwork. This is neither genetic nor temperature related .  This lesson  can be copied and scaled up. 

So learn the right lessons and start working hard. And stop giving excuses.

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Why do you peddle these web sites that do not have any credibility? you just want to stir the pot. Isn't it? 

South Indians are not that different from north Indians. The simple truth is there are more south indians seeking economic upliftment through education and hardwork. This is neither genetic nor temperature related .  This lesson  can be copied and scaled up. 

So learn the right lessons and start working hard. And stop giving excuses.

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Why do you peddle these web sites that do not have any credibility? you just want to stir the pot. Isn't it? 

South Indians are not that different from north Indians. The simple truth is there are more south indians seeking economic upliftment through education and hardwork. This is neither genetic nor temperature related .  This lesson  can be copied and scaled up. 

So learn the right lessons and start working hard. And stop giving excuses.

There has to be some explanation for why South Indians and Bengalis constitute most of Indian academia in the science and math ( and related fields like engineering) streams.

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Why do you peddle these web sites that do not have any credibility? you just want to stir the pot. Isn't it? 

South Indians are not that different from north Indians. The simple truth is there are more south indians seeking economic upliftment through education and hardwork. This is neither genetic nor temperature related .  This lesson  can be copied and scaled up. 

So learn the right lessons and start working hard. And stop giving excuses.

There has to be some explanation for why South Indians and Bengalis constitute most of Indian academia in the science and math ( and related fields like engineering) streams.

On a different but somewhat related note:-

There are three region based cliques in Indian academia:

1. South Indians ( this can vary, for instance if there are two telugus from Coastal Andhra and one from Telangana in the same department then we may witness a clique within a clique)
2. Bengali clique (includes Oriyas. May include people from parts of Bihar, Jharkhand, etc. which are closer to Bengal. Bengalis dominate this clique.)
3. Maharashtrian and Gujarati clique

Rashmun wrote:A young Bangladeshi-American population geneticist named Razib Khan has done one of the few studies in this area, confirming via survey that professors of mathematics in India are disproportionately Southerners. Razib wrote to me:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Why do you peddle these web sites that do not have any credibility? you just want to stir the pot. Isn't it? 

South Indians are not that different from north Indians. The simple truth is there are more south indians seeking economic upliftment through education and hardwork. This is neither genetic nor temperature related .  This lesson  can be copied and scaled up. 

So learn the right lessons and start working hard. And stop giving excuses.

There has to be some explanation for why South Indians and Bengalis constitute most of Indian academia in the science and math ( and related fields like engineering) streams.

On a different but somewhat related note:-

There are three region based cliques in Indian academia:

1. South Indians ( this can vary, for instance if there are two telugus from Coastal Andhra and one from Telangana in the same department then we may witness a clique within a clique)
2. Bengali clique (includes Oriyas. May include people from parts of Bihar, Jharkhand, etc. which are closer to Bengal. Bengalis dominate this clique.)
3. Maharashtrian and Gujarati clique

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

b_A wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Rash,

Why do you peddle these web sites that do not have any credibility? you just want to stir the pot. Isn't it? 

South Indians are not that different from north Indians. The simple truth is there are more south indians seeking economic upliftment through education and hardwork. This is neither genetic nor temperature related .  This lesson  can be copied and scaled up. 

So learn the right lessons and start working hard. And stop giving excuses.

There has to be some explanation for why South Indians and Bengalis constitute most of Indian academia in the science and math ( and related fields like engineering) streams.

On a different but somewhat related note:-

There are three region based cliques in Indian academia:

1. South Indians ( this can vary, for instance if there are two telugus from Coastal Andhra and one from Telangana in the same department then we may witness a clique within a clique)
2. Bengali clique (includes Oriyas. May include people from parts of Bihar, Jharkhand, etc. which are closer to Bengal. Bengalis dominate this clique.)
3. Maharashtrian and Gujarati clique

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

yeah yeah. We have one Uttar pradeshi here who doesn't show any such traits. He never posts any thing that can even be remotely praiseworthy of UP. In fact , he doesn't even use any peripheral/tangential logic to find anything that can be noteworthy of UP.

Rashmun wrote:

b_A wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

There has to be some explanation for why South Indians and Bengalis constitute most of Indian academia in the science and math ( and related fields like engineering) streams.

On a different but somewhat related note:-

There are three region based cliques in Indian academia:

1. South Indians ( this can vary, for instance if there are two telugus from Coastal Andhra and one from Telangana in the same department then we may witness a clique within a clique)
2. Bengali clique (includes Oriyas. May include people from parts of Bihar, Jharkhand, etc. which are closer to Bengal. Bengalis dominate this clique.)
3. Maharashtrian and Gujarati clique

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

yeah yeah. We have one Uttar pradeshi here who doesn't show any such traits. He never posts any thing that can even be remotely praiseworthy of UP. In fact , he doesn't even use any peripheral/tangential logic to find anything that can be noteworthy of UP.

Did you see this thread:

https://such.forumotion.com/t24998-uttar-pradesh-is-the-largest-wheat-producer-and-third-largest-rice-producer-in-the-country#164850

people like you eat our food grains, our wheat, and our rice while all the time cursing us for being a burden on the nation.

Rashmun wrote:

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

yeah yeah. We have one Uttar pradeshi here who doesn't show any such traits. He never posts any thing that can even be remotely praiseworthy of UP. In fact , he doesn't even use any peripheral/tangential logic to find anything that can be noteworthy of UP.

Did you see this thread:

https://such.forumotion.com/t24998-uttar-pradesh-is-the-largest-wheat-producer-and-third-largest-rice-producer-in-the-country#164850

people like you eat our food grains, our wheat, and our rice while all the time cursing us for being a burden on the nation.

Mauni wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

yeah yeah. We have one Uttar pradeshi here who doesn't show any such traits. He never posts any thing that can even be remotely praiseworthy of UP. In fact , he doesn't even use any peripheral/tangential logic to find anything that can be noteworthy of UP.

Did you see this thread:

https://such.forumotion.com/t24998-uttar-pradesh-is-the-largest-wheat-producer-and-third-largest-rice-producer-in-the-country#164850

people like you eat our food grains, our wheat, and our rice while all the time cursing us for being a burden on the nation.

.

Rashmun wrote:

Mauni wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

yeah yeah. We have one Uttar pradeshi here who doesn't show any such traits. He never posts any thing that can even be remotely praiseworthy of UP. In fact , he doesn't even use any peripheral/tangential logic to find anything that can be noteworthy of UP.

Did you see this thread:

https://such.forumotion.com/t24998-uttar-pradesh-is-the-largest-wheat-producer-and-third-largest-rice-producer-in-the-country#164850

people like you eat our food grains, our wheat, and our rice while all the time cursing us for being a burden on the nation.

.

https://such.forumotion.com/t24966-the-expelled-students-and-the-uttar-pradeshi-indian-pm#164842

b_A wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

b_A wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

On a different but somewhat related note:-

There are three region based cliques in Indian academia:

1. South Indians ( this can vary, for instance if there are two telugus from Coastal Andhra and one from Telangana in the same department then we may witness a clique within a clique)
2. Bengali clique (includes Oriyas. May include people from parts of Bihar, Jharkhand, etc. which are closer to Bengal. Bengalis dominate this clique.)
3. Maharashtrian and Gujarati clique

The people who are completely free of region based parochialism/ regional chauvinism? The Uttar Pradeshis.

yeah yeah. We have one Uttar pradeshi here who doesn't show any such traits. He never posts any thing that can even be remotely praiseworthy of UP. In fact , he doesn't even use any peripheral/tangential logic to find anything that can be noteworthy of UP.

Did you see this thread:

https://such.forumotion.com/t24998-uttar-pradesh-is-the-largest-wheat-producer-and-third-largest-rice-producer-in-the-country#164850

people like you eat our food grains, our wheat, and our rice while all the time cursing us for being a burden on the nation.

If the same amount of fertile land is available to those cauvery delta farmers of TN or the AP farmers , they will produce 100 to 200 % more wheat and rice.

Rashmun wrote:Why are South Indians so smart?

One of the least predicted phenomena of recent decades was the emergence of a huge number of people with brilliant technical skills in South India. As far as I know, nobody saw it coming. It doesn't fit either standard cultural theories (e.g., the "center" flourishes at the expense of the "periphery" - until recently, you couldn't get much more peripheral than Bangalore) or evolutionary theories (e.g., cold winters may select for high IQ, but South India is awfully warm).

A young Bangladeshi-American population geneticist named Razib Khan has done one of the few studies in this area, confirming via survey that professors of mathematics in India are disproportionately Southerners. Razib wrote to me:

"South Indians (from my experience) seem to have somewhat of an inferiority complex visa vis the north, especially the Hindi cow-belt. This is partly because of the north's cultural domination. But it's also because southerners are small and darker. If fact, I would hazard to guess that many northern fathers would object to their daughters marrying a southerner purely on racial grounds-backed up of course by traditional caste prejudices.

"This being said-pretty much everyone also agrees the southerners are damn smart. Smarter than the average northerner. Doesn't seem to matter though-the northerners are still higher on the pecking order anyhow. Kind of like High School. Jocks, not nerds, rule.

"By the way, I happen to think there probably isn't much evolutionary advantage in the ability to figure out higher level topology in mathematics. I have to think genetic drift is important in this sort of thing."

Genetic drift (i.e., randomness) might well be the answer, but it's kind of the Theory of Last Resort for when we can't come up with anything else. Of course, I sure haven't come up with anything else other than "maybe it has something to do with caste," which isn't exactly a theory. Does anybody have any other suggestions? What role does caste play in this? (My impression is that caste is essentially Jim Crow-style segregation taken to surrealistic extremes. Does that make sense?) 3/03/02

Why are there so many extremely smart people from the South of India? I mean, there's certainly nothing lacking about the big, fairer-skinned folks from the North of India, but the small, dark-skinned Dravidian-speakers from the South are something.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2002/03/why-are-south-indians-so-smart.html

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regarding marriage, my own opinion is that just as many northern fathers would object to their daughters marrying south indians, so many southern fathers would object to their daughters marrying northerners. it is purely about concern of what may happen in marrying outside your own culture. having said that the mindset is changing and many NI-SI marriages are taking place. Eventually these intermarriages will lead to a more homogenous culture. but that is in the future.

as of today, why is south india producing a disproportionately large number of mathematicians? i don't know, but i will point out that even among north indians, bengal is producing the maximum number of academicians. Further, about 10 years ago or so (when i enquired about this), around 50% of the female students in the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore were Bengalis.

Kris wrote:

Rashmun wrote:A young Bangladeshi-American population geneticist named Razib Khan has done one of the few studies in this area, confirming via survey that professors of mathematics in India are disproportionately Southerners. Razib wrote to me:

>>>I don't think Khan dug deep enough. The idea of "smarts" seems to be defined around academic success and proficiency in mathematics. These outcomes may simply be the result of the needs of certain cases/communities. As an example, Brahmins as a group were not historically a wealthy group. This would have caused the need to succeed through academics that later led to secure jobs. By contrast, merchant communities/castes would have emphasized wealth building. That is a different kind of smarts, one of the pragmatic variety. His research would have been more to the point if he had done a comparison between corresponding castes in the North and the South.  There could also be another underlying flaw in his premise. He starts with the premise or expectation that cold climates create mindsets conducive to creating civilizations due to higher iq. This is a self-serving POV on the part of Western intelligentsia and can be easily refuted. The first civilizations occurred in the Indian subcontinent, the Near East, North Africa and Southern Europe. Western and Northern Europeans were way behind on this front, which would almost suggest a direct correlation between civilization- building and temperatures, within certain limits.

Rashmun wrote:

Kris wrote:

Rashmun wrote:A young Bangladeshi-American population geneticist named Razib Khan has done one of the few studies in this area, confirming via survey that professors of mathematics in India are disproportionately Southerners. Razib wrote to me:

>>>I don't think Khan dug deep enough. The idea of "smarts" seems to be defined around academic success and proficiency in mathematics. These outcomes may simply be the result of the needs of certain cases/communities. As an example, Brahmins as a group were not historically a wealthy group. This would have caused the need to succeed through academics that later led to secure jobs. By contrast, merchant communities/castes would have emphasized wealth building. That is a different kind of smarts, one of the pragmatic variety. His research would have been more to the point if he had done a comparison between corresponding castes in the North and the South.  There could also be another underlying flaw in his premise. He starts with the premise or expectation that cold climates create mindsets conducive to creating civilizations due to higher iq. This is a self-serving POV on the part of Western intelligentsia and can be easily refuted. The first civilizations occurred in the Indian subcontinent, the Near East, North Africa and Southern Europe. Western and Northern Europeans were way behind on this front, which would almost suggest a direct correlation between civilization- building and temperatures, within certain limits.

Good observation about the first civilizations coming into being in warm climates, not cold. Regarding state wise comparison of castes ( Brahmins, Dalits, merchant community, and the agricultural castes) that would be an interesting study.

Kris wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Kris wrote:

Rashmun wrote:A young Bangladeshi-American population geneticist named Razib Khan has done one of the few studies in this area, confirming via survey that professors of mathematics in India are disproportionately Southerners. Razib wrote to me:

>>>I don't think Khan dug deep enough. The idea of "smarts" seems to be defined around academic success and proficiency in mathematics. These outcomes may simply be the result of the needs of certain cases/communities. As an example, Brahmins as a group were not historically a wealthy group. This would have caused the need to succeed through academics that later led to secure jobs. By contrast, merchant communities/castes would have emphasized wealth building. That is a different kind of smarts, one of the pragmatic variety. His research would have been more to the point if he had done a comparison between corresponding castes in the North and the South.  There could also be another underlying flaw in his premise. He starts with the premise or expectation that cold climates create mindsets conducive to creating civilizations due to higher iq. This is a self-serving POV on the part of Western intelligentsia and can be easily refuted. The first civilizations occurred in the Indian subcontinent, the Near East, North Africa and Southern Europe. Western and Northern Europeans were way behind on this front, which would almost suggest a direct correlation between civilization- building and temperatures, within certain limits.

Good observation about the first civilizations coming into being in warm climates, not cold. Regarding state wise comparison of castes ( Brahmins, Dalits, merchant community, and the agricultural castes) that would be an interesting study.

>>>This has piqued my curiosity. From my observation, brahmins and vaisya communities' accomplishments seem  comparable to their counterparts across the north-south divide. I have not seen any formal studies on this,  but it seems reasonable to assume the same type of cultural pressures.