Acchhey Din (Good Days): Narendra Modi vs Manmohan Singh

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Did Modi take away the Govt. subsidies (handouts) on petrol thus saving the cash-starved Govt. / country huge amounts of money which can be better spent on other more important public projects?

Rashmun wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Did Modi take away the Govt. subsidies (handouts) on petrol thus saving the cash-starved Govt. / country huge amounts of money which can be better spent on other more important public projects?

Increasing the price of petrol automatically increases the price of all consumer products. Since the cost of transportation is increasing.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the US govt has been subsidizing the price of gasoline for a very long time.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the US govt has been subsidizing the price of gasoline for a very long time.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the US govt has been subsidizing the price of gasoline for a very long time.

Subsidies in gasoline by the U.S. Govt. to what extent and in what form? 
Also consider the trade deficits and money borrowed recently by the U.S. Govt..... does that justify the U.S. Govt's subsidizing the gasoline in the country?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the US govt has been subsidizing the price of gasoline for a very long time.

Subsidies in gasoline by the U.S. Govt. to what extent and in what form? 
Also consider the trade deficits and money borrowed recently by the U.S. Govt..... does that justify the U.S. Govt's subsidizing the gasoline in the country?

i went to the gasbuddy website. on average gas prices in canada are about 100 cents/liter.  after doing the currency conversion, that's about US $4.45/gal.  gas in the US right now is $2.50/gal.  why do you think this is given that canada is a more oil rich nation?

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/28/175550949/imf-gas-prices-dont-reflect-true-costs

i once drove to quebec city for a conference through vermont and made the mistake of filling up after crossing the border. big mistake.

truthbetold wrote:tax on gasoline is higher in canada, and norway.  US prices are more reflective of market costs.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:tax on gasoline is higher in canada, and norway.  US prices are more reflective of market costs.

you're talking about direct taxes which the consumer pays.  the US also gives huge tax subsidies to the oil industry. if these were removed, i have read estimates of gas prices somewhere in the $10-$15/gal range.  this is why it's not a level playing field for hybrids and EVs.  so while decrying subsidies in india, let's remember those of us who live in the US benefit from subsidies too.

Hellsangel wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:tax on gasoline is higher in canada, and norway.  US prices are more reflective of market costs.

you're talking about direct taxes which the consumer pays.  the US also gives huge tax subsidies to the oil industry. if these were removed, i have read estimates of gas prices somewhere in the $10-$15/gal range.  this is why it's not a level playing field for hybrids and EVs.  so while decrying subsidies in india, let's remember those of us who live in the US benefit from subsidies too.

You're happily forgetting heating oil subsidies. A favorite subsidy of the Democrats.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:tax on gasoline is higher in canada, and norway.  US prices are more reflective of market costs.

you're talking about direct taxes which the consumer pays.  the US also gives huge tax subsidies to the oil industry. if these were removed, i have read estimates of gas prices somewhere in the $10-$15/gal range.  this is why it's not a level playing field for hybrids and EVs.  so while decrying subsidies in india, let's remember those of us who live in the US benefit from subsidies too.

You're happily forgetting heating oil subsidies. A favorite subsidy of the Democrats.

the share of oil heat is 6% in the US. natural gas is close to 50%.  so heating oil subsidies are a miniscule sliver compared to what big oil companies receive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies wrote:However, many of the "subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above).

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:just so we understand each other, i have a more nuanced view about the use of fossil fuels and certainly don't side with the most extreme views on the left.  anything we do about energy has to be carefully considered so we don't rock the still fragile recovery.  

though written by someone with an opposing political view to mine, this is a fair article on the subject that i found a while ago:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surprising-reason-that-oil-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:tax on gasoline is higher in canada, and norway.  US prices are m

ore reflective of market costs.

you're talking about direct taxes which the consumer pays.  the US also gives huge tax subsidies to the oil industry. if these were removed, i have read estimates of gas prices somewhere in the $10-$15/gal range.  this is why it's not a level playing field for hybrids and EVs. so while decrying subsidies in india, let's remember those of us who live in the US benefit from subsidies too.

truthbetold wrote:Sevaji

You are on right track. 

When India sold Petrol at Rs. 50 in 2007 with crude &147, Man mohan laid the foundation for the economic recession of 2012.  I would not put all the blame on Man Mohan. It is a legacy of India's subsidy raj for votes.  Manmohan tried to get out of it in later years and tried to reduce subsidies. His efforts were not complete due to resistance from congress.  

It is idiotic to even argue that India can afford the humongous subsidy for petrol. Man Mohan himself initiated the process of scaling back petro subsidies.

truthbetold wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:tax on gasoline is higher in canada, and norway.  US prices are m

ore reflective of market costs.

you're talking about direct taxes which the consumer pays.  the US also gives huge tax subsidies to the oil industry. if these were removed, i have read estimates of gas prices somewhere in the $10-$15/gal range.  this is why it's not a level playing field for hybrids and EVs.  so while decrying subsidies in india, let's remember those of us who live in the US benefit from subsidies too.

I am not trying to be rude but those numbers seem absurd.  US consumed 134 billion gallons in 2013. Credible estimates of us subsidies to oil industry vary between 10 to 50 billion dollars. You do the math.
I am all for renewable energy. However oil industry used its subsidies,  they are finding new oil sources at sea in areas like gulf and shale oil in north Dakota. The subsidies are not wasted ( consumed by end User with helping regeneration of the resource).

In India the subsidy went trucking industry. It is paid by budget deficit. It become a very large part leading to economic distortions. That is why mms tried to end subsidies after 2010 but Congress refused to cooperate.
It is illogical to argue that oil subsidy reduced vegetable cost by reducing trucking cost while oil subsidy results in very high inflation leading to higher vegetable costs.