Mars mission remarkable, but not true innovation

Stating that spirituality is the hallmark of Indian ethos and there is little interest in experimental sciences, R K Saxena, vice-president of New Delhi’s South Asian University, said Sunday that the Mars mission cannot be called a true innovation.

Speaking at a session on ‘Science and Technology in SAARC Countries’ at the Indian Science Congress, he claimed that the focus of our culture has been on self realisation and not on worldly knowledge as propagated in Upanishads and Gita. This, he said, explained why the country had not become truly innovative.

“In India, the focus has been on spirituality and understanding of the self. There has been no genuine curiosity about understanding processes of nature and little effort in exploring cultures. Replication of a demonstrated technology represents great intellect in developing specific skills, but it is not true innovation. The Mars mission is a truly remarkable achievement. But you cannot call it true innovation, we have copied technology,” said Saxena.

When asked what he thinks of a session on ancient Indian sciences through Sanskrit, in which a paper spoke of how before Wright Brothers’ first flight, a Mumbai couple pulled off a demonstration flight on Chowpatty beach, Saxena said science is objective and unless there is tangible proof, people will consider it hearsay. “If we were so good, why doesn’t it get reflected in society today? Our achievement in spirituality has been great, just as the West has made great achievements in science,” he said.

He questioned: “What’s our strategy, let the West innovate and we shall keep following them? Or we shall learn to innovate and not keep doing peripheral science?”

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/mars-mission-remarkable-but-not-true-innovation-says-scientist/

He's right on the money; it is nothing but a sophisticated version of code-coolieing. And hats off to this gentleman for calling a spade a spade without caving into chaddi pressure.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Stating that spirituality is the hallmark of Indian ethos and there is little interest in experimental sciences, R K Saxena, vice-president of New Delhi’s South Asian University, said Sunday that the Mars mission cannot be called a true innovation.

Speaking at a session on ‘Science and Technology in SAARC Countries’ at the Indian Science Congress, he claimed that the focus of our culture has been on self realisation and not on worldly knowledge as propagated in Upanishads and Gita. This, he said, explained why the country had not become truly innovative.

“In India, the focus has been on spirituality and understanding of the self. There has been no genuine curiosity about understanding processes of nature and little effort in exploring cultures. Replication of a demonstrated technology represents great intellect in developing specific skills, but it is not true innovation. The Mars mission is a truly remarkable achievement. But you cannot call it true innovation, we have copied technology,” said Saxena.

When asked what he thinks of a session on ancient Indian sciences through Sanskrit, in which a paper spoke of how before Wright Brothers’ first flight, a Mumbai couple pulled off a demonstration flight on Chowpatty beach, Saxena said science is objective and unless there is tangible proof, people will consider it hearsay. “If we were so good, why doesn’t it get reflected in society today? Our achievement in spirituality has been great, just as the West has made great achievements in science,” he said.

He questioned: “What’s our strategy, let the West innovate and we shall keep following them? Or we shall learn to innovate and not keep doing peripheral science?”

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/mars-mission-remarkable-but-not-true-innovation-says-scientist/

He's right on the money; it is nothing but a sophisticated version of code-coolieing. And hats off to this gentleman for calling a spade a spade without caving into chaddi pressure.

Today in the world of patents, if a person uses a different method to engineer the same end product but at a much lower cost, he/she is still awarded a patent. Innovation is not purely dictated by the uniqueness of the end product alone. Perhaps Saxena was referring to completely new products as innovation. He has set a higher bar. But that does not make MOM innovation less. 

As far as I can remember, India is the only country which used, successive acceleration based on multiple orbits around earth and an eventual sling shot approach, to get MOM to the required escape velocity required for it to cruise all the way to Mars. It had to take this approach,  because it did not have GSLV. However, I think it is a First in the annals of space history for someone to use this technique to send something to MOM. It was this key method which made it possible for ISRO to reduce the cost.  Somebody like Seva can confirm whether my understanding is right. So while the end result was same, there was something innovative there.

India did not directly try this, first it perfected the technique with the Chandrayaan. 

BTW MOM did happen during the term of NM, but the efforts for this has been going on for two years. The goal itself was set during previous government. So what is the need for partisanship here? So Congress party supporters have a problem just because a successful outcome of a project resulted during NDAs term ? What is the need to link this to NDA or UPA and give a political twist to his comments ? I do not understand.
 
Entire India deserves to be proud about MOM. even if its lifespan is reduced. At the least we beat China and Japan to the goal. This is probably one item. the children of India can look up for inspiration. To belittle that without basis, is a great dis-service to the nation.

Anyway, I am amazed by the sheer ignorance of folks, who brazenly compare MOM kind of stuff with Code-Coolie type work. It is quite complex to achieve something like this. 

BTW for Mr Saxena to comment on these matters, he should walk the talk and get some students in SAARC university he heads, to do some innovations that meets his standards. Actions speak louder than words.

i agree with rawemotions on this one - to dismiss the mars mission as some code coolie work and use it for chaddi bashing is way too harsh and totally off mark.

bw wrote:i agree with rawemotions on this one - to dismiss the mars mission as some code coolie work and use it for chaddi bashing is way too harsh and totally off mark.

BW, what is so innovative about putting a mere Mars orbiter into space when we had mastered manned interplanetary travel all those millenia ago?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Heard-at-science-meet-Ancient-Indian-planes-flew-to-planets/articleshow/45754349.cms

bw wrote:i agree with rawemotions on this one - to dismiss the mars mission as some code coolie work and use it for chaddi bashing is way too harsh and totally off mark.

My comment has got nothing to do with chaddi bashing. Are we saying that Indian space program has  borrowed no technology from Russia? In that respect I don't see much difference between code coolie job and this except this one is a classified mission. Why is it seen as a demeaning comment, I know a few code coolies that worked for NASA

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Stating that spirituality is the hallmark of Indian ethos and there is little interest in experimental sciences, R K Saxena, vice-president of New Delhi’s South Asian University, said Sunday that the Mars mission cannot be called a true innovation.

Speaking at a session on ‘Science and Technology in SAARC Countries’ at the Indian Science Congress, he claimed that the focus of our culture has been on self realisation and not on worldly knowledge as propagated in Upanishads and Gita. This, he said, explained why the country had not become truly innovative.

“In India, the focus has been on spirituality and understanding of the self. There has been no genuine curiosity about understanding processes of nature and little effort in exploring cultures. Replication of a demonstrated technology represents great intellect in developing specific skills, but it is not true innovation. The Mars mission is a truly remarkable achievement. But you cannot call it true innovation, we have copied technology,” said Saxena.

When asked what he thinks of a session on ancient Indian sciences through Sanskrit, in which a paper spoke of how before Wright Brothers’ first flight, a Mumbai couple pulled off a demonstration flight on Chowpatty beach, Saxena said science is objective and unless there is tangible proof, people will consider it hearsay. “If we were so good, why doesn’t it get reflected in society today? Our achievement in spirituality has been great, just as the West has made great achievements in science,” he said.

He questioned: “What’s our strategy, let the West innovate and we shall keep following them? Or we shall learn to innovate and not keep doing peripheral science?”

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/mars-mission-remarkable-but-not-true-innovation-says-scientist/

He's right on the money; it is nothing but a sophisticated version of code-coolieing. And hats off to this gentleman for calling a spade a spade without caving into chaddi pressure.

Today in the world of patents, if a person uses a different method to engineer the same end product but at a much lower cost, he/she is still awarded a patent. Innovation is not purely dictated by the uniqueness of the end product alone. Perhaps Saxena was referring to completely new products as innovation. He has set a higher bar. But that does not make MOM innovation less. 

As far as I can remember, India is the only country which used, successive acceleration based on multiple orbits around earth and an eventual sling shot approach, to get MOM to the required escape velocity required for it to cruise all the way to Mars. It had to take this approach,  because it did not have GSLV. However, I think it is a First in the annals of space history for someone to use this technique to send something to MOM. It was this key method which made it possible for ISRO to reduce the cost.  Somebody like Seva can confirm whether my understanding is right. So while the end result was same, there was something innovative there.

India did not directly try this, first it perfected the technique with the Chandrayaan. 

BTW MOM did happen during the term of NM, but the efforts for this has been going on for two years. The goal itself was set during previous government. So what is the need for partisanship here? So Congress party supporters have a problem just because a successful outcome of a project resulted during NDAs term ? What is the need to link this to NDA or UPA and give a political twist to his comments ? I do not understand.
 
Entire India deserves to be proud about MOM. even if its lifespan is reduced. At the least we beat China and Japan to the goal. This is probably one item. the children of India can look up for inspiration. To belittle that without basis, is a great dis-service to the nation.

Anyway, I am amazed by the sheer ignorance of folks, who brazenly compare MOM kind of stuff with Code-Coolie type work. It is quite complex to achieve something like this. 

BTW for Mr Saxena to comment on these matters, he should walk the talk and get some students in SAARC university he heads, to do some innovations that meets his standards. Actions speak louder than words.

Very well said.

rawemotions wrote:
BTW for Mr Saxena to comment on these matters, he should walk the talk and get some students in SAARC university he heads, to do some innovations that meets his standards. Actions speak louder than words.

Completely agreed. He should spring into action by urging IITs to develop products, medical students to innovate, citizens to give up on smoking tobbaco, not to rape, bankers to establish world class banks and finally to create our own Google, Microsoft, Apple.

This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

bw wrote:i agree with rawemotions on this one - to dismiss the mars mission as some code coolie work and use it for chaddi bashing is way too harsh and totally off mark.

BW, what is so innovative about putting a mere Mars orbiter into space when we had mastered manned interplanetary travel all those millenia ago?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Heard-at-science-meet-Ancient-Indian-planes-flew-to-planets/articleshow/45754349.cms

So....

Are you suggesting that Indians have become Sikular CONmen and hence are just jumping up and down in a bar instead of jumping from one planet to another? May be, Hanuman was forcibly converted and should be brought back through ghar wapasi. How about introducing Gita in schools so that every student will jump from one galaxy to another? I wonder if Pappu can jump at all after seeing the election results. Amrita may be very unhappy that Doggy is unable to jump these days!

Garibi Hatao?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

but we're talking about canon which Babur used to defeat Indian kings.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

yes. let's become china and get rid of freedom of speech, restrict freedom of movement, severely restrict political freedoms, and displace people from their properties without adequate compensation to extend freeways and to meet other infrastructure goals.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

but we're talking about canon which Babur used to defeat Indian kings.

Do you think North Korea is more advanced than South Korea, because North Korea has the nuclear bomb and missiles which give that country the capability to beat (even wipe out) South Korea during a war?

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Do you think North Korea is more advanced than South Korea, because North Korea has the nuclear bomb and missiles which give that country the capability to beat (even wipe out) South Korea during a war?

Operative word here is "invention" not "possession"; Speaking of atomic bomb, I think Modiji should sue US for stealing the idea from Gita.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

but we're talking about canon which Babur used to defeat Indian kings.

No. He used Kodak.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
yes. let's become china and get rid of freedom of speech, restrict freedom of movement, severely restrict political freedoms, and displace people from their properties without adequate compensation to extend freeways and to meet other infrastructure goals.  

Well, I can't say India is devoid of such practices, this is currently happening in Andhra Pradesh in the name of building a world class capital.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

but we're talking about canon which Babur used to defeat Indian kings.

No. He used Kodak.

Noted the spelling mistake. Thanks.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

yes. let's become china and get rid of freedom of speech, restrict freedom of movement, severely restrict political freedoms, and displace people from their properties without adequate compensation to extend freeways and to meet other infrastructure goals.  

ask CD ... he is the one who started with China in the discussion, as that country being more advanced than India.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:This guy probably has read only one page of the Upanisad texts and started talking like an authority on ancient Indian schools of thought (including the scientific investigations etc.) while even claiming that the present lack of innovation in India is due to people concentrating more on seeking the "Self" etc.  

Here is an example in the following on how wrong he is, i.e. people in India were not just seeking the realization of Self only long ago, 
"Vaisesika or the philosophy of Atomistic Pluralism" ... http://www.geocities.ws/lamberdar/vaisesika.html


As for the lack of innovation etc. recently in India, that is more due to the bad and corrupt governance in the country, including the introduction of bad policies for politicians to get elected (e.g. the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the implementation of archaic, divisive and gender-specific religious laws). 

Was corruption the reason for Indian's missing out on the inventions of canon & gunpowder or was it another case of those damn Chinese stealing Sanskrit manuals?

During the 1940s and 1950s, India was in a much better shape than China in terms of economy, education (including the science) and industry etc. 
Now, after about 5 decades, look at the difference in the progress in education, industrialization and economy etc. in China, which is mostly the result of that country having a Govt. which is not only better and more effective in terms of administration but it also does not cater to the so-called "minorities" for the sake of votes through regressive policies (such as and including the caste based quotas in education and jobs and the religious / archaic / communal / divisive laws for people).

yes. let's become china and get rid of freedom of speech, restrict freedom of movement, severely restrict political freedoms, and displace people from their properties without adequate compensation to extend freeways and to meet other infrastructure goals.  

The difference between India and China is - Sikularism. The Jagans, Laloos, Rajas and Khalmadis may be killed in China but will certainly be in jail in a proper democracy.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
ask CD ... he is the one who started with China in the discussion, as that country being more advanced than India.

Sir, I said in a different context. How did China come up with cannon & gunpowder when Hindus possessed all the knowledge and had high-tech manuals written in Sanskrit.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Sir, I said in a different context. How did China come up with cannon & gunpowder when Hindus possessed all the knowledge and had high-tech manuals written in Sanskrit.

Can you explain how did US come up with Atom bomb when Ernest Rutherford from UK working in UK was the one that identified the atomic structure?

smArtha wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Sir, I said in a different context. How did China come up with cannon & gunpowder when Hindus possessed all the knowledge and had high-tech manuals written in Sanskrit.

Can you explain how did US come up with Atom bomb when Ernest Rutherford from UK working in UK was the one that identified the atomic structure?

Can you provide us with evidence to support the fact that India had originally initiated cannon-gunpowder prakalp before China stole the information.

confuzzled dude wrote:

smArtha wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Sir, I said in a different context. How did China come up with cannon & gunpowder when Hindus possessed all the knowledge and had high-tech manuals written in Sanskrit.

Can you explain how did US come up with Atom bomb when Ernest Rutherford from UK working in UK was the one that identified the atomic structure?

Can you provide us with evidence to support the fact that India had originally initiated cannon-gunpowder prakalp before China stole the information.

Can you provide us the evidence to support the fact that US had stolen the atomic structure information from UK to make the Atom Bomb.

smArtha wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

smArtha wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Sir, I said in a different context. How did China come up with cannon & gunpowder when Hindus possessed all the knowledge and had high-tech manuals written in Sanskrit.

Can you explain how did US come up with Atom bomb when Ernest Rutherford from UK working in UK was the one that identified the atomic structure?

Can you provide us with evidence to support the fact that India had originally initiated cannon-gunpowder prakalp before China stole the information.

Can you provide us the evidence to support the fact that US had stolen the atomic structure information from UK to make the Atom Bomb.

There is plenty of information available on the development process of atomic bomb from the inception and involvement of different countries including Germany with timeline, do you have similar information on this?

confuzzled dude wrote:

There is plenty of information available on the development process of atomic bomb from the inception and involvement of different countries including Germany with timeline, do you have similar information on this?

And your claim is that there isn't any historical information regarding exchange of knowledge across regions that are now considered India and China?

smArtha wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

There is plenty of information available on the development process of atomic bomb from the inception and involvement of different countries including Germany with timeline, do you have similar information on this?

And your claim is that there isn't any historical information regarding exchange of knowledge across regions that are now considered India and China?

Nope, that's not what I said.

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

bw wrote:i agree with rawemotions on this one - to dismiss the mars mission as some code coolie work and use it for chaddi bashing is way too harsh and totally off mark.

BW, what is so innovative about putting a mere Mars orbiter into space when we had mastered manned interplanetary travel all those millenia ago?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Heard-at-science-meet-Ancient-Indian-planes-flew-to-planets/articleshow/45754349.cms

So....

Are you suggesting that Indians have become Sikular CONmen and hence are just jumping up and down in a bar instead of jumping from one planet to another? May be, Hanuman was forcibly converted and should be brought back through ghar wapasi. How about introducing Gita in schools so that every student will jump from one galaxy to another? I wonder if Pappu can jump at all after seeing the election results. Amrita may be very unhappy that Doggy is unable to jump these days!

Garibi Hatao?

Unkil, I'm concerned. You are more incoherent than usual. Did you have your medications today?

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

bw wrote:i agree with rawemotions on this one - to dismiss the mars mission as some code coolie work and use it for chaddi bashing is way too harsh and totally off mark.

BW, what is so innovative about putting a mere Mars orbiter into space when we had mastered manned interplanetary travel all those millenia ago?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Heard-at-science-meet-Ancient-Indian-planes-flew-to-planets/articleshow/45754349.cms

So....

Are you suggesting that Indians have become Sikular CONmen and hence are just jumping up and down in a bar instead of jumping from one planet to another? May be, Hanuman was forcibly converted and should be brought back through ghar wapasi. How about introducing Gita in schools so that every student will jump from one galaxy to another? I wonder if Pappu can jump at all after seeing the election results. Amrita may be very unhappy that Doggy is unable to jump these days!

Garibi Hatao?

Unkil, I'm concerned. You are more incoherent than usual. Did you have your medications today?

Hmm... And I thought I was funny.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
ask CD ... he is the one who started with China in the discussion, as that country being more advanced than India.

Sir, I said in a different context. How did China come up with cannon & gunpowder when Hindus possessed all the knowledge and had high-tech manuals written in Sanskrit.

This is a sickular fukular argument full of Macaulayist ignorance. Everyone knows that ancient Hindus possessed planes that could travel from continent to continent, and from planet to planet, and which could carry a Brahmastra payload that would wipe out entire populations and render the land unsuitable for any cultivation for decades after.

But being a peace-loving people, we adopted a No-First-Use policy and after realizing that other countries were too backward (and still fought wars with spears and swords), we decided to voluntarily renounce our missile and nuclear technologies. Millenia of peaceful existence and vegetarianism turned us into genteel, scholarly weaklings, ill-placed to push back the monomaniacal hordes that poured through the Hindukush and over seas. Those barbarians destroyed our entire knowledge base and forced mass conversions, which is responsible for the sorry state of our nation today, long story short.

The Chinese never faced any such challenge (mainly because they ate a lot of goat and also other things like dogs, cats, snakes and scorpions). So the invention of gunpowder maybe a big thing for those mongoloid races but it is a trivial achievement by our high-born Aryan standards. We spit on such piffling mlechcha claims. Jai Shri Ram. Bharat Mata ki Jai!

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
This is a sickular fukular argument full of Macaulayist ignorance. Everyone knows that ancient Hindus possessed planes that could travel from continent to continent, and from planet to planet, and which could carry a Brahmastra payload that would wipe out entire populations and render the land unsuitable for any cultivation for decades after.

But being a peace-loving people, we adopted a No-First-Use policy and after realizing that other countries were too backward (and still fought wars with spears and swords), we decided to voluntarily renounce our missile and nuclear technologies. Millenia of peaceful existence and vegetarianism turned us into genteel, scholarly weaklings, ill-placed to push back the monomaniacal hordes that poured through the Hindukush and over seas. Those barbarians destroyed our entire knowledge base and forced mass conversions, which is responsible for the sorry state of our nation today, long story short.

The Chinese never faced any such challenge (mainly because they ate a lot of goat and also other things like dogs, cats, snakes and scorpions). So the invention of gunpowder maybe a big thing for those mongoloid races but it is a trivial achievement by our high-born Aryan standards. We spit on such piffling mlechcha claims. Jai Shri Ram. Bharat Mata ki Jai!

ROFL. Looks like those damn Chinese (again) copied our original NFU concept.