Snipers are freedom fighters

During the Second World War, more than 12 per cent of Americans served in the military. Today, fewer than ½ per cent do, and many of them are what military analyst Thomas Ricks calls "socially isolated, politically conservative". That growing chasm has resulted in a modern America in which few grant much thought to soldiers except for ritualised reverence.

If there is any cultural force that exacerbates misunderstandings, it's films such as American Sniper, according to Karl Eikenberry and David Kennedy in The New York Times. To many conservatives and members of the armed services, Chris Kyle was a man beyond reproach, and to criticise him disrespects both the military and those who choose to serve.

Manliness, however, was clearly an issue to him. Leaving the Seals and returning to Texas in 2009, the tales became taller. "After his incredible military career, he felt such high pressure to maintain his image," says Mooney, and one way he did this was through bar fights, blaming his behaviour on "pent-up aggression". He told a story in his book of one time that he and a pal pummelled a few "wannabe Ultimate Fighters" in a bar. "I would rather get my ass beat than look like a pussy in front of my boys," he wrote.

That sense of superhuman toughness perhaps led him to tell stories reporters couldn't confirm. One involved a cold January morning at a gas station south-west of Dallas. Two armed men, he said, approached him and told him to hand over the keys to his black Ford F350 pick-up truck. "I told them I would get them the keys," he told Mooney. "I told them they were in the truck and to just let me reach in." Kyle then claimed he reached into the car, pulled out a gun and, shooting under his armpit, killed both men. "It's true," he said.

But was it? The medical examiner's office reported no such deaths in Cleburne in January 2009. Reporters, including the New Yorker's Nicholas Schmidle, called some of the nearby county sheriffs and none of them knew of it. "I went to every single gas station [nearby]," Mooney explained. "I talked to every single law enforcement out there, all the Texas rangers — and there's no evidence whatsoever."

Years after those alleged killings, Kyle had another story to tell. This one referred to the 2005 vacuum of authority in New Orleans following Katrina. According to The New Yorker, seven years later, during a late-night drinking session with a few other Seals, Kyle revealed that "he and another sniper travelled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceeded to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos".

One of those present said Kyle "claimed to have shot 30 men on his own"; one said Kyle and the other killed 30 between them. Whichever, neither the US Special Operations Command nor one of Kyle's officers had any knowledge of such unlicensed slaughter.

OldNavy
10:17 PM EST
Kyle was the exact opposite of everything the Navy SEALS are all abut. They don't brag, tell lies, or promote themselves as heroes. Both Kyle and Robert O'Neill represent a shift among today's SEALS who try to cash in on fame and glory when they are no longer serving. They forgot that they were members of a team, and anything they did that was courageous or worthy of commendation was the result of their training, their high expectations, and the men before them and beside them who made them what they are.

Every SEAL I ever knew including those who served in Vietnam were reluctant to talk about killing. They did not brag or act like they enjoyed it. Same with my uncles who served in WW2 and my Dad who served in Korea. Glorifying war is usually done by those who have never seen it up close. I considered it my duty, and now that duty is over I'd rather leave it in the past, not dishonor myself and those I served with by turning it into self-promotion and political tripe.

Propagandhi711 wrote:reads a blog post and suddenly becomes expert enough to give strong opinions on snipers. wouldnt have known a sniper and what they do from a hole in the ground two days ago. what a pathetic joke this fool is.

Propagandhi711 wrote:reads a blog post and suddenly becomes expert enough to give strong opinions on snipers. wouldnt have known a sniper and what they do from a hole in the ground two days ago. what a pathetic joke this fool is.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:reads a blog post and suddenly becomes expert enough to give strong opinions on snipers. wouldnt have known a sniper and what they do from a hole in the ground two days ago. what a pathetic joke this fool is.

Hope everything is okay with you fool

In fact, everyone Kyle kills is horrible. The war is a lot easier to support when no Americans ever make a mistake and everyone who opposes them is obviously horrible. You’re either with us or against us. We’re spreading freedom and democracy with guns and drones. God bless America.

Every kill Kyle makes, even with shots taken after split-second decisions, is 100% righteous and saves American lives. The skull logo of Marvel’s murderous vigilante the Punisher is on his vest and his armoured vehicle, yet nobody asks whether that sort of symbolism is going to help win Iraqi hearts and minds. He is a true patriotic American, with a whacking great tattoo of a Jerusalem cross on his arm. That bit is true: “I had it put in in red, for blood,” he wrote. “I hated the damn savages I’d been fighting. I always will. They’ve taken so much from me.”

Kyle suffers after his tours of duty, but only, he says, because he wanted to kill more bad guys to save more marines. He develops a thousand-yard stare, and attacks his own dog at a barbecue. The message of American Sniper is that Kyle is the real victim of the war. The Iraqis he shot deserved it, because – as it has established to its own satisfaction – they were savages. As for non-savage Iraqis who may have reasonable grounds to complain about what happened to their country following the invasion, they must be in some other movie.

Propagandhi711 wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:reads a blog post and suddenly becomes expert enough to give strong opinions on snipers. wouldnt have known a sniper and what they do from a hole in the ground two days ago. what a pathetic joke this fool is.

Hope everything is okay with you fool

go read some more blogs and pretend to be an intellectual.

Hellsangel wrote:Give Comrade a long enough rope and sure enough he has his Michael Moore moment.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:Give Comrade a long enough rope and sure enough he has his Michael Moore moment.

and what exactly is that? are you one of those that strongly believe that criticizing anyone that served in the military is blasphemy?

nevada wrote:zzzzzzzz movie. Too long, was like a documentary. I felt relieved when it ended rather abruptly.

The job of sniper has nothing to do with the stories of movie and television, nothing related to the heavily fictionalized books foisted on the public decade after decade.  Snipers with high kill numbers shoot primarily armed American allies they “mistake” for enemy or unarmed civilians.  The best of them protect American bases and small units with precision fire and take great risks.

If you kill more than dozen people as a sniper and you aren’t guilty of murdering innocent civilians, I would be very surprised.  If you are insane enough to convince yourself, let’s say you are in Afghanistan or Iraq, countries where it is legal for any civilian to carry a weapon and no sane person would go outside without one, that shooting “armed Muslims” makes you a hero, you are both a liar and a fool.  You are probably also a psychopath.

FluteHolder wrote:Snipers are signed up to fight the enemy. They are doing their job as any other job but with risks/tough decisions/calls to make(taking out young women/children who harm their troops).

I kind of liked the movie. Sad to know that he was killed by another vet, being helped by Kyle to recover...

Hellsangel wrote:I remember another movie now. Also about a sniper. This one starred a Brit as a Russian and an American as a German.

nevada wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:I remember another movie now. Also about a sniper. This one starred a Brit as a Russian and an American as a German.

 I remember another sniper movie. Mark Wahlberg is in it. He is asked to miss the target but the guy who asked him to do this has other plans.

nevada wrote:

FluteHolder wrote:Snipers are signed up to fight the enemy. They are doing their job as any other job but with risks/tough decisions/calls to make(taking out young women/children who harm their troops).

I kind of liked the movie. Sad to know that he was killed by another vet, being helped by Kyle to recover...

Yes, they are doing a job. Someone has to do the dirty work. Snipers are just a different type of weapon in warfare.
I think the main issue is that people understand killing is essential, but they hate bragging about it.
Not everyone can stand Kyle's bragging about the killings and dubious claims(like shooting 2 goons who wanted to steal his truck, killing 20-30 thugs from a rooftop during the unruly post katrina days in New Orleans, etc).
Also, the fact that he was murdered probably makes people think that he brought it upon himself by over aggression and confrontational attitude.

Hellsangel wrote:

nevada wrote:

FluteHolder wrote:Snipers are signed up to fight the enemy. They are doing their job as any other job but with risks/tough decisions/calls to make(taking out young women/children who harm their troops).

I kind of liked the movie. Sad to know that he was killed by another vet, being helped by Kyle to recover...

Yes, they are doing a job. Someone has to do the dirty work. Snipers are just a different type of weapon in warfare.
I think the main issue is that people understand killing is essential, but they hate bragging about it.
Not everyone can stand Kyle's bragging about the killings and dubious claims(like shooting 2 goons who wanted to steal his truck, killing 20-30 thugs from a rooftop during the unruly post katrina days in New Orleans, etc).
Also, the fact that he was murdered probably makes people think that he brought it upon himself by over aggression and confrontational attitude.

He died while trying to talk down a vet suffering from PTSD I think. More than anything it is the attitudes about the Iraq war that are driving who praises him and who criticizes him.

Hellsangel wrote:

nevada wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:I remember another movie now. Also about a sniper. This one starred a Brit as a Russian and an American as a German.

 I remember another sniper movie. Mark Wahlberg is in it. He is asked to miss the target but the guy who asked him to do this has other plans.

Enemy At the Gates. It was about this guy.

Propagandhi711 wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

nevada wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:I remember another movie now. Also about a sniper. This one starred a Brit as a Russian and an American as a German.

 I remember another sniper movie. Mark Wahlberg is in it. He is asked to miss the target but the guy who asked him to do this has other plans.

Enemy At the Gates. It was about this guy.

not really. mark wahlberg's shooter is based on a fictional novel by stephen hunter who writes heavily about sniper's creed & is also a movie critic for the wapo

Hellsangel wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

nevada wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:I remember another movie now. Also about a sniper. This one starred a Brit as a Russian and an American as a German.

 I remember another sniper movie. Mark Wahlberg is in it. He is asked to miss the target but the guy who asked him to do this has other plans.

Enemy At the Gates. It was about this guy.

not really. mark wahlberg's shooter is based on a fictional novel by stephen hunter who writes heavily about sniper's creed & is also a movie critic for the wapo

No. I was talking about the one I mentioned. Jude Law and Ed Harris.