another take on exemplary asian american kids vs. elite colleges

Given the aforementioned drawbacks, every institution needs to think long and hard about who gets an extra boost in the admissions process and why. Here is something that may surprise you now that you have read points one through six: I strongly support preferential treatment to achieve racial, ethnic and socioeconomic diversity in the classroom. I teach public policy. If I am discussing health care or public education or social policy, I don't want 30 students with the highest SAT scores. I want 30 bright, thoughtful students who can have an intelligent conversation that reflects the broad diversity of views in America. I want rich students, poor students, black students, white students, Asian students, conservatives, liberals and so on. If there is any important segment of society whose voice is likely to be missing, and if the admissions process is likely to leave that group underrepresented, then I would support some kind of preferential treatment to get that voice on campus. For me, diversity is fundamental to what I am trying to accomplish.

Athletes? Alumni children? Rich donors? Make the case – or don't do it. I'll be honest: If you give my institution $100 million, I would probably be willing to slide your kid ahead in the admissions queue, provided he or she is marginally qualified. Why? Because your $100 million is going to provide financial aid (or other resources) for hundreds and hundreds of other students. That makes the institution stronger in the long run. (Hey, I compared this to prostitution, but I never said prostitution should be illegal!)

If a doctor tells me I need my lower leg amputated, I'm going to push back. The burden of proof is going to be on the guy who wants to remove my limb. The more extreme or distasteful the measure, the better the case needs to be. Harvard will soon have the opportunity to make its case before the federal government and perhaps in court, too.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/charles-wheelan/2015/06/09/claims-of-harvard-bias-against-asian-americans-show-admissions-trade-offs

after making a long list of reasons why preferential treatment is harmful, he slips this in:

that's easy to say when you are not part of the minority that is being treated unfairly.  all of these liberal white academics who make arguments for continuing to treat asian americans poorly would instantaneously reverse their arguments if the jewish ceiling was reinstated at elite institutions. hypocrites the whole lot of them.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/charles-wheelan/2015/06/09/claims-of-harvard-bias-against-asian-americans-show-admissions-trade-offs

after making a long list of reasons why preferential treatment is harmful, he slips this in:

that's easy to say when you are not part of the minority that is being treated unfairly.  all of these liberal white academics who make arguments for continuing to treat asian americans poorly would instantaneously reverse their arguments if the jewish ceiling was reinstated at elite institutions. hypocrites the whole lot of them.

I see your flaming liberalism is all slowly ever so slowly crumbling on this ONE issue.....watching it for A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW.  8th or 9th grade ?

Relax...everything will be just fine and If Harvard does not work out Colgate, Wellesley will work out....U Mass is an excellent back up...  BTW, Amherst is very highly regarded...and also an elite in its own category.

As I said long back...you want to increase your kid's chances to enter an Elite school, then go to midwest 2 to 3 years before the kid goes to College (but, that is not possible as kid will not move).

Welcome to the "real" old-fashioned Desi Parents club.

P.S. For the record, I approve of limits on admission of Asian kids.  The Jewish kid limits were placed in the 20th century but applicants dont reveal their religion on their applications.  So no point in harping on Jews.

swapna wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/charles-wheelan/2015/06/09/claims-of-harvard-bias-against-asian-americans-show-admissions-trade-offs

after making a long list of reasons why preferential treatment is harmful, he slips this in:

that's easy to say when you are not part of the minority that is being treated unfairly.  all of these liberal white academics who make arguments for continuing to treat asian americans poorly would instantaneously reverse their arguments if the jewish ceiling was reinstated at elite institutions. hypocrites the whole lot of them.

I see your flaming liberalism is all slowly ever so slowly crumbling on this ONE issue.....watching it for A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW.  8th or 9th grade ?

Relax...everything will be just fine and If Harvard does not work out Colgate, Wellesley will work out....U Mass is an excellent back up...  BTW, Amherst is very highly regarded...and also an elite in its own category.

As I said long back...you want to increase your kid's chances to enter an Elite school, then go to midwest 2 to 3 years before the kid goes to College (but, that is not possible as kid will not move).

Welcome to the "real" old-fashioned Desi Parents club.

P.S. For the record, I approve of limits on admission of Asian kids.  The Jewish kid limits were placed in the 20th century but applicants dont reveal their religion on their applications.  So no point in harping on Jews.

by and large, and amazingly, I agree with marathadiyaar. I don't see why and how one is justified to insist on attending harvard; no one has the right to an education at a great university that was founded, financed, nurtured, and developed by private initiatives, for the purposes and the largely lofty objectives of the founders. 

one should gracefully accept the admission criteria that harvard and other such universities apply. complaints about universities restricting admission based on ethnicity, (economic) class, and family background are valid only when they are about public universities, especially the ones that are funded by one's tax payments. 

yes, the universities that marathadiyaar mentions are fine ones, and more than sufficient for the education of our children. indeed, they are much better than the iits, and one should be grateful for their existence in our backyards in america.

finally, for the studenr who is, for example, a talented number theorist, paleontologist, or violinist, there is always princeton, u.c. berkeley, or the juliard school. for this too, one should be grateful.

Propagandhi711 wrote:as they say, no one is a liberal when self interest is involved

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i am glad there are more people who don't think asian americans should "gracefully accept" harvard's admission policies as suggested by swapna here.

http://www.newsweek.com/harvard-too-jewish-has-become-too-asian-342335

btw, they do receive federal aid and quite a bit of it. hence the legality of this lawsuit. if they want to continue their discriminatory practices they should completely eschew taxpayer money.

pravalika nanda wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i am glad there are more people who don't think asian americans should "gracefully accept" harvard's admission policies as suggested by swapna here.

http://www.newsweek.com/harvard-too-jewish-has-become-too-asian-342335

btw, they do receive federal aid and quite a bit of it. hence the legality of this lawsuit. if they want to continue their discriminatory practices they should completely eschew taxpayer money.

what's so great about harvard? it was never on my checklist to get into an ivy league school. and who wants to live in that snooty upper-class academic cul-de-sac that is boston? who wants to date those guys whom propa calls "intellectual douchebags?" not me. they know absolutely nothing about life.

my kids will not go to harvard. if they want they can go to harvey mudd. anyway i make a lot more money than these harvard bores.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

pravalika nanda wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i am glad there are more people who don't think asian americans should "gracefully accept" harvard's admission policies as suggested by swapna here.

http://www.newsweek.com/harvard-too-jewish-has-become-too-asian-342335

btw, they do receive federal aid and quite a bit of it. hence the legality of this lawsuit. if they want to continue their discriminatory practices they should completely eschew taxpayer money.

what's so great about harvard? it was never on my checklist to get into an ivy league school. and who wants to live in that snooty upper-class academic cul-de-sac that is boston? who wants to date those guys whom propa calls "intellectual douchebags?" not me. they know absolutely nothing about life.

my kids will not go to harvard. if they want they can go to harvey mudd. anyway i make a lot more money than these harvard bores.

Guess as of tomorrow, Harvard U will be called Harvard State University.

pravalika nanda wrote:**there

Kris wrote:

pravalika nanda wrote:**there

I think the people raising this issue are calling Harvard on not being transparent and hiding behind this 'holistic evaluation' bs. Their obsession with harvard may be unhealthy, but that does not absolve the unfairness aspect.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Kris wrote:

pravalika nanda wrote:**there

I think the people raising this issue are calling Harvard on not being transparent and hiding behind this 'holistic evaluation' bs. Their obsession with harvard may be unhealthy, but that does not absolve the unfairness aspect.

Fairness is in the eyes of the society. who said marks, grades and test scores - as in India - are enough ? there are quite a few bad test takers. many desi parents write essays for their kids applications. Many parents are rich and arrange special coaching and tutoring ? how do you separate the intelligent scores from tutored/coached scores? one can list such issues in evaluation. the process is highly sujective and the applications go through several stages screened by several people.

if such invisible barriers are not in place, Chinkus and koreans will beat the Indians hands down, and the very same desis will scream for Asian quotas. for all praCTICAL PURPOSES Indians are not considered Asians - despite what they check in the apps.

pravalika nanda wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

pravalika nanda wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i am glad there are more people who don't think asian americans should "gracefully accept" harvard's admission policies as suggested by swapna here.

http://www.newsweek.com/harvard-too-jewish-has-become-too-asian-342335

btw, they do receive federal aid and quite a bit of it. hence the legality of this lawsuit. if they want to continue their discriminatory practices they should completely eschew taxpayer money.

what's so great about harvard? it was never on my checklist to get into an ivy league school. and who wants to live in that snooty upper-class academic cul-de-sac that is boston? who wants to date those guys whom propa calls "intellectual douchebags?" not me. they know absolutely nothing about life.

my kids will not go to harvard. if they want they can go to harvey mudd. anyway i make a lot more money than these harvard bores.

Guess as of tomorrow, Harvard U will be called Harvard State University.

look, i don't know what's so special about harvard that i gotta spend my entire youth trying to get in their. at the end of the day all the indian guys who go to HU end up at shaadi.com looking for a spouse and that's damn hilarious.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i am glad there are more people who don't think asian americans should "gracefully accept" harvard's admission policies as suggested by swapna here.

http://www.newsweek.com/harvard-too-jewish-has-become-too-asian-342335

btw, they do receive federal aid and quite a bit of it. hence the legality of this lawsuit. if they want to continue their discriminatory practices they should completely eschew taxpayer money.

Kris wrote:

pravalika nanda wrote:**there

I think the people raising this issue are calling Harvard on not being transparent and hiding behind this 'holistic evaluation' bs. Their obsession with harvard may be unhealthy, but that does not absolve the unfairness aspect.

swapna wrote:
why is it federal aid? harvard does research under contract for the various departments and agencies of the federal government. the government and the taxpayers get high returns for the money they spend, and no one is forcing the government to contract with harvard. 

32. Despite having an endowment of approximately $36.4 billion, Harvard
accepts substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government through,
among other things, grants and loans. In 2010, Harvard accepted more than $6.6 million
in federal funds. In 2011, Harvard accepted more than $11.9 million in federal funds. In
2012, Harvard accepted more than $20.9 million in federal funds. In 2013, Harvard
accepted more than $13.4 million in federal funds. Harvard also has received and will
further receive substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government in
2014.

33. Harvard also accepts substantial indirect Federal financial assistance by,
among other things, enrolling students who pay, in part, with Federal financial aid
directly distributed to those students.

swapna wrote:so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

swapna wrote:
why is it federal aid? harvard does research under contract for the various departments and agencies of the federal government. the government and the taxpayers get high returns for the money they spend, and no one is forcing the government to contract with harvard. 

no, this is not about research contracts between the federal govt and harvard.

from the complaint filed by the new group that's litigating:

32. Despite having an endowment of approximately $36.4 billion, Harvard
accepts substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government through,
among other things, grants and loans. In 2010, Harvard accepted more than $6.6 million
in federal funds. In 2011, Harvard accepted more than $11.9 million in federal funds. In
2012, Harvard accepted more than $20.9 million in federal funds. In 2013, Harvard
accepted more than $13.4 million in federal funds. Harvard also has received and will
further receive substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government in
2014.

33. Harvard also accepts substantial indirect Federal financial assistance by,
among other things, enrolling students who pay, in part, with Federal financial aid
directly distributed to those students.

clearly they are referring to funding that universities receive that's packaged as aid packages to students. it has to be, because harvard's federal research income is much greater than the numbers cited above.

you can read the full complaint here: https://studentsforfairadmissions.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SFFA-v.-Harvard-Complaint.pdf

swapna wrote:so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

i am curious about why you are getting so exercised about legal action being brought by people who perceive themselves to be at the receiving end of unfair admission policies.

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

swapna wrote:
why is it federal aid? harvard does research under contract for the various departments and agencies of the federal government. the government and the taxpayers get high returns for the money they spend, and no one is forcing the government to contract with harvard. 

no, this is not about research contracts between the federal govt and harvard.

from the complaint filed by the new group that's litigating:

32. Despite having an endowment of approximately $36.4 billion, Harvard
accepts substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government through,
among other things, grants and loans. In 2010, Harvard accepted more than $6.6 million
in federal funds. In 2011, Harvard accepted more than $11.9 million in federal funds. In
2012, Harvard accepted more than $20.9 million in federal funds. In 2013, Harvard
accepted more than $13.4 million in federal funds. Harvard also has received and will
further receive substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government in
2014.

33. Harvard also accepts substantial indirect Federal financial assistance by,
among other things, enrolling students who pay, in part, with Federal financial aid
directly distributed to those students.

clearly they are referring to funding that universities receive that's packaged as aid packages to students. it has to be, because harvard's federal research income is much greater than the numbers cited above.

you can read the full complaint here: https://studentsforfairadmissions.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SFFA-v.-Harvard-Complaint.pdf

swapna wrote:so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

i am curious about why you are getting so exercised about legal action being brought by people who perceive themselves to be at the receiving end of unfair admission policies.

I can't, and don't wish to satisfy your curiosity because it's based on a false premise: that I am exercised merely because I disagree with your notions about harvard's undergrad admissions policies.

you started this thread, and have written more about this than anyone else, so if anyone is exercised, it's you, especially because you haven't claimed that any indian close to you has been denied admission to harvard college. 

if I didn't know you better, I'd consider your posts to be a barrage of anticipatory complaints. I am expressing, in a reasonable way, my opposition to what I consider to be unjustified complaints.

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

swapna wrote:
why is it federal aid? harvard does research under contract for the various departments and agencies of the federal government. the government and the taxpayers get high returns for the money they spend, and no one is forcing the government to contract with harvard. 

no, this is not about research contracts between the federal govt and harvard.

from the complaint filed by the new group that's litigating:

32. Despite having an endowment of approximately $36.4 billion, Harvard
accepts substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government through,
among other things, grants and loans. In 2010, Harvard accepted more than $6.6 million
in federal funds. In 2011, Harvard accepted more than $11.9 million in federal funds. In
2012, Harvard accepted more than $20.9 million in federal funds. In 2013, Harvard
accepted more than $13.4 million in federal funds. Harvard also has received and will
further receive substantial direct financial assistance from the Federal government in
2014.

33. Harvard also accepts substantial indirect Federal financial assistance by,
among other things, enrolling students who pay, in part, with Federal financial aid
directly distributed to those students.

clearly they are referring to funding that universities receive that's packaged as aid packages to students. it has to be, because harvard's federal research income is much greater than the numbers cited above.

you can read the full complaint here: https://studentsforfairadmissions.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SFFA-v.-Harvard-Complaint.pdf

swapna wrote:so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

i am curious about why you are getting so exercised about legal action being brought by people who perceive themselves to be at the receiving end of unfair admission policies.

I can't, and don't wish to satisfy your curiosity because it's based on a false premise: that I am exercised merely because I disagree with your notions about harvard's undergrad admissions policies.

you started this thread, and have written more about this than anyone else, so if anyone is exercised, it's you, especially because you haven't claimed that any indian close to you has been denied admission to harvard college. 

if I didn't know you better, I'd consider your posts to be a barrage of anticipatory complaints. I am expressing, in a reasonable way, my opposition to what I consider to be unjustified complaints.

cranky old motherfucker's gone off the rails bonkers. 

swapna wrote:

btw, what does "gone off the rails bonkers" mean? miss umaaaaaa!

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

btw, what does "gone off the rails bonkers" mean? miss umaaaaaa!

it means you're this close to smearing your shit on the walls and starting to eat the neighbors' pets while neglecting to change your depends once every 3 days like you normally do

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there's another argument to be made here.  legacy admissions are based on prior donations. if this is true then these donations are no donations at all, but a quid pro quo transaction.  however, donors receive tax breaks roughly in the amount of 40% of the amount of donation (i remember reading somewhere; i can dig it up if need be).  in essence taxpayers are subsidizing legacy admissions up to 40%.  

swapna wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

btw, what does "gone off the rails bonkers" mean? miss umaaaaaa!

it means you're this close to smearing your shit on the walls and starting to eat the neighbors' pets while neglecting to change your depends once every 3 days like you normally do

I hate to break this to you; what it means is that an Indian will sound like an idiot if he starts speaking in idioms ("going off the rails") and slang ("bonkers") when he has learnt only ebonics and not correct english. miss umaaaaaaaaa!

now, is the wrinklef man in the photograph you posted the senior mr seetharamayya? did you disguise him in caucasian make-up? why? are you familiar with diapers for incontinent people because he wears them? are you the one who puts his diaper on for him? is that why you are perpetually angry?

or are you angry because the senior mr seethatamayya defecates in your front yard in richardson as if it were your village near guNTur, and you've had to explain the stench and the mounds of faeces not only to your neighbours, but also to jose who now refuses to mow your lawn?

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

btw, what does "gone off the rails bonkers" mean? miss umaaaaaa!

it means you're this close to smearing your shit on the walls and starting to eat the neighbors' pets while neglecting to change your depends once every 3 days like you normally do

I hate to break this to you; what it means is that an Indian will sound like an idiot if he starts speaking in idioms ("going off the rails") and slang ("bonkers") when he has learnt only ebonics and not correct english. miss umaaaaaaaaa!

now, is the wrinkled man in the photograph you posted the senior mr seetharamayya? did you disguise him in caucasian make-up? why? are you familiar with diapers for incontinent people because he wears them? are you the one who puts his diaper on for him? is that why you are perpetually angry?

or are you angry because the senior mr seethatamayya defecates in your front yard in richardson as if it were your village near guNTur, and you've had to explain the stench and the mounds of faeces not only to your neighbours, but also to jose who now refuses to mow your lawn?

I speak and write better english than you anyday, you bitter old motherfucker with '50s vocubulary. 

when you say jose, are you talking about the one that plowed your exwife in your marital bed while you were working hard at your underpaying consultancy, before she hightailed it to orange county? 

also is defecating in public a favorite pastime in your family? I recall you bragged about your w peeing and dropping deuce in the saharan sands with great pride...putting that together with your preoccupation with cleveland steamers and indians' defecating in the open, you sound like a textbook case of extreme coprophiliac. do you think it's too late for you to see a head shrink for it, considering your life expectancy at this time must be like 2 or 3 yrs tops?

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there's another argument to be made here.  legacy admissions are based on prior donations. if this is true then these donations are no donations at all, but a quid pro quo transaction.  however, donors receive tax breaks roughly in the amount of 40% of the amount of donation (i remember reading somewhere; i can dig it up if need be).  in essence taxpayers are subsidizing legacy admissions up to 40%.  

let's assume that the statement about
donations being quid pro quo is true. so what? are you saying that such a transaction is illegal or unethical? 

harvard is a private, non-profit organization (a foundation?) and I don't see anything wrong in the university accepting a donation of, say, $20 million in return for educating the donor's children for the next four generations. 

the 20 mil enables harvard to fulfill its educational mission longer and better on behalf of hundreds students: caucasian, jewish, chinese, indian, and others.

the tax break you are so skeptical of applies because the congress and the people of the u.s. want it to, because they correctly believe that it is an incentive for the development of universities. that is one reason why you find harvard so attractive. 

it's a terrible idea to bite the hand that feeds one.

bw wrote:i don't what all this fuss about ivy league is.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

bw wrote:i don't what all this fuss about ivy league is.

that is not the point; at least it wasn't my point. the original post was to highlight the unfairness of unequal expectations from americans of different races in the college admissions rat race.

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

bw wrote:i don't what all this fuss about ivy league is.

that is not the point; at least it wasn't my point. the original post was to highlight the unfairness of unequal expectations from americans of different races in the college admissions rat race.

is it across the board and not just at these private schools? i haven't yet bothered looking into the details of all this.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

bw wrote:i don't what all this fuss about ivy league is.

that is not the point; at least it wasn't my point. the original post was to highlight the unfairness of unequal expectations from americans of different races in the college admissions rat race.

is it across the board and not just at these private schools? i haven't yet bothered looking into the details of all this.

Of course not... I know/can easily guess what schools/Universities you are interested in....

swapna wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:

swapna wrote:

btw, what does "gone off the rails bonkers" mean? miss umaaaaaa!

it means you're this close to smearing your shit on the walls and starting to eat the neighbors' pets while neglecting to change your depends once every 3 days like you normally do

I hate to break this to you; what it means is that an Indian will sound like an idiot if he starts speaking in idioms ("going off the rails") and slang ("bonkers") when he has learnt only ebonics and not correct english. miss umaaaaaaaaa!

now, is the wrinkled man in the photograph you posted the senior mr seetharamayya? did you disguise him in caucasian make-up? why? are you familiar with diapers for incontinent people because he wears them? are you the one who puts his diaper on for him? is that why you are perpetually angry?

or are you angry because the senior mr seethatamayya defecates in your front yard in richardson as if it were your village near guNTur, and you've had to explain the stench and the mounds of faeces not only to your neighbours, but also to jose who now refuses to mow your lawn?

I speak and write better english than you anyday, you bitter old motherfucker with '50s vocubulary. 

when you say jose, are you talking about the one that plowed your exwife in your marital bed while you were working hard at your underpaying consultancy, before she hightailed it to orange county? 

also is defecating in public a favorite pastime in your family? I recall you bragged about your w peeing and dropping deuce in the saharan sands with great pride...putting that together with your preoccupation with cleveland steamers and indians' defecating in the open, you sound like a textbook case of extreme coprophiliac. do you think it's too late for you to see a head shrink for it, considering your life expectancy at this time must be like 2 or 3 yrs tops?

speaking of 50s vocabulary, hahaha @"marital bed." does vaaNi say "come to marital bed, seetharamayya?"

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:BW all I can say is do not underestimate the influence of peer pressure through this process. It's useful and mentally healthy to have an "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but this is not your call alone.

swapna wrote:[
what about the thamizh brahmins? have they founded and organized a university or college that you'd be happy and proud to attend, even in india? (the only such case I know of in the post-independent india is that of a metallurgical lab at iit-m, funded by my class mate, a scion of the most important, iyengaar business family.)

so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

swapna wrote:[
what about the thamizh brahmins? have they founded and organized a university or college that you'd be happy and proud to attend, even in india? (the only such case I know of in the post-independent india is that of a metallurgical lab at iit-m, funded by my class mate, a scion of the most important, iyengaar business family.)

so, I entreat you parents of smart, brown children to stifle the whines, stop the wailing, curb the demands - we are not entitled to a bloody thing - and gratefully, and with grace, make the best use you can, of what america has built for and offered you and your children.

ok...since you asked....

Vellore Institute of Technology (and now UNIVERSITY).

SRM University with campuses in TN and Sikkim (This is moving up the ranks)

BITS Group..

Manipal University

PSG Institutions.

Amrita Group of Institutions

There are several - education-based business groups - that are ploughing back the donation/tuition money into the institutions.  Already some of these are ranked higher than some of the IITs, with JEE rankers prefering Mech/Comp Sci at these universities over Aero, Chemical, mining and pottery engineering at IITs.  Some of these have opened campuses in the middle east and Singapore/malaysia.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:BW all I can say is do not underestimate the influence of peer pressure through this process. It's useful and mentally healthy to have an "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but this is not your call alone.

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:BW all I can say is do not underestimate the influence of peer pressure through this process. It's useful and mentally healthy to have an "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but this is not your call alone.

understand. i am not going to stand in the way of what they desire - am not going to lose my sleep over it or put any pressure on them. i have nothing 'against' the ivy league.

as long as they pursue their passion to the fullest they will have our full backing. colleges attended are just incidental.

it bothers me immensely that every little action that high school kids do is largely determined by whether it will bolster their resume and their "uniqueness" or not. there is this senior kid at school who has taken the initiative to start a science olympiad training club. he has training sessions with the younger kids (my son is one of those). he publishes a monthly magazine and calls himself the "editor-in-chief". all very commendable and constructive but i can't help wonder if he would have done all this if it was not relevant to his college admission chances.

saami, if i exist(TS has put this fear of brain cancer in me) and this forum exists, i will update you on the choices made.

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

please show me some evidence that they are not as described in the bold text above. what are some things outside academics at which asians excel? I'd be especially interested in the case of indian students.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

please show me some evidence that they are not as described in the bold text above. what are some things outside academics at which asians excel? I'd be especially interested in the case of indian students.

since you ask, is it fair to say you subscribe to this stereotype?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:BW all I can say is do not underestimate the influence of peer pressure through this process. It's useful and mentally healthy to have an "I don't give a fuck" attitude, but this is not your call alone.

understand. i am not going to stand in the way of what they desire - am not going to lose my sleep over it or put any pressure on them. i have nothing 'against' the ivy league.

as long as they pursue their passion to the fullest they will have our full backing. colleges attended are just incidental.

it bothers me immensely that every little action that high school kids do is largely determined by whether it will bolster their resume and their "uniqueness" or not. there is this senior kid at school who has taken the initiative to start a science olympiad training club. he has training sessions with the younger kids (my son is one of those). he publishes a monthly magazine and calls himself the "editor-in-chief". all very commendable and constructive but i can't help wonder if he would have done all this if it was not relevant to his college admission chances.

saami, if i exist(TS has put this fear of brain cancer in me) and this forum exists, i will update you on the choices made.

oh that's nothing. we have 14 and 15 year olds who are small business owners with titles like CEO and chief architect. we have kids who've spent summers reconstructing haiti at age 13 and what not.

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

swapna wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:saamiyar -- based on what I see it is very easy to challenge the notion that asians are unidimensional academics, and high scoring automatons with no life outside of academics. it's just that they don't excel at the same things that other groups do.

if privilege is a burden then why should asian privilege be a heavier burden than jewish privilege?

please show me some evidence that they are not as described in the bold text above. what are some things outside academics at which asians excel? I'd be especially interested in the case of indian students.

since you ask, is it fair to say you subscribe to this stereotype?

I had written clearly enough. ("please show me some evidence that they - indians and other asians - are not as described in the bold text above.")

I'll wait for you to challenge the notion of indians' and other asians' nerdiness, with counterexamples. you said it's easy.