Progressive Pandit Nehru vs Regressive Narendra Modi: An illustrative example

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

Nehru was a very "progressive" guy - he often progressed very fast towards Edwina and when he wasn't busy, he progressed towards the UN for being called a statesman. He royally screwed Edwina and India.

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

1. not implementing the uniform civil code for all civil laws was a mistake. Note that Nehru did implement uniform civil code for all criminal laws.

2. Nehru was personally against caste based reservations but was persuaded by other members of the cabinet that this would only be for  short duration. Unlike Vakavaka's hero, Nehru was no dictator. Note that in Nehru's time caste based reservations was only for SC/ST's, and not for OBC's. For Nehru's personal views on caste based reservations, see this:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2008-04-11/news/27699322_1_reservation-caste-education

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

1. not implementing the uniform civil code for all civil laws was a mistake. Note that Nehru did implement uniform civil code for all criminal laws.

2. Nehru was personally against caste based reservations but was persuaded by other members of the cabinet that this would only be for  short duration. Unlike Vakavaka's hero, Nehru was no dictator. Note that in Nehru's time caste based reservations was only for SC/ST's, and not for OBC's. For Nehru's personal views on caste based reservations, see this:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2008-04-11/news/27699322_1_reservation-caste-education

*corrected*

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

1. not implementing the uniform civil code for all civil laws was a mistake. Note that Nehru did implement uniform civil code for all criminal laws.

2. Nehru was personally against caste based reservations but was persuaded by other members of the cabinet that this would only be for  short duration. Unlike Vakavaka's hero, Nehru was no dictator. Note that in Nehru's time caste based reservations was only for SC/ST's, and not for OBC's. For Nehru's personal views on caste based reservations, see this:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2008-04-11/news/27699322_1_reservation-caste-education

*corrected*

wrong on both counts.

1. To have the uniform criminal code (in diluted form) was to spare people from some religions about harsh religion based punishments for crimes, such as amputation of hands etc. for thefts and stealing, while they lived according to their religious laws civilly without the UCC.

2. OBCs were granted reservations and caste benefits right from the beginning, when SC/STs got the quota benefits initially. I remember farmer category classmates of mine during 1950s in Govt. schools getting the free tuition etc., while the "higher" caste students didn't. The criterion for quotas was that anyone form castes engaged in occupations which made hands dirty or sweaty, would be eligible for quotas.

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:What about the implementation of religious laws and reservations according to caste with Nehru as the P.M.? Attending or backing a religious conference is not as bad to the country as are the religious laws or the caste based quotas / reservations.

1. not implementing the uniform civil code for all civil laws was a mistake. Note that Nehru did implement uniform civil code for all criminal laws.

2. Nehru was personally against caste based reservations but was persuaded by other members of the cabinet that this would only be for  short duration. Unlike Vakavaka's hero, Nehru was no dictator. Note that in Nehru's time caste based reservations was only for SC/ST's, and not for OBC's. For Nehru's personal views on caste based reservations, see this:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2008-04-11/news/27699322_1_reservation-caste-education

*corrected*

wrong on both counts.

1. To have the uniform criminal code (in diluted form) was to spare people from some religions about harsh religion based punishments for crimes, such as amputation of hands etc. for thefts and stealing, while they lived according to their religious laws civilly without the UCC.

2. OBCs were granted reservations and caste benefits right from the beginning, when SC/STs got the quota benefits initially. I remember farmer category classmates of mine during 1950s in Govt. schools getting the free tuition etc., while the "higher" caste students didn't. The criterion for quotas was that anyone form castes engaged in occupations which made hands dirty or sweaty, would be eligible for quotas.

everyone knows that caste based reservations for OBCs began when then Prime Minister of India VP Singh decided to implement the Mandal Commission Report.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

1. not implementing the uniform civil code for all civil laws was a mistake. Note that Nehru did implement uniform civil code for all criminal laws.

2. Nehru was personally against caste based reservations but was persuaded by other members of the cabinet that this would only be for  short duration. Unlike Vakavaka's hero, Nehru was no dictator. Note that in Nehru's time caste based reservations was only for SC/ST's, and not for OBC's. For Nehru's personal views on caste based reservations, see this:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2008-04-11/news/27699322_1_reservation-caste-education

*corrected*

wrong on both counts.

1. To have the uniform criminal code (in diluted form) was to spare people from some religions about harsh religion based punishments for crimes, such as amputation of hands etc. for thefts and stealing, while they lived according to their religious laws civilly without the UCC.

2. OBCs were granted reservations and caste benefits right from the beginning, when SC/STs got the quota benefits initially. I remember farmer category classmates of mine during 1950s in Govt. schools getting the free tuition etc., while the "higher" caste students didn't. The criterion for quotas was that anyone form castes engaged in occupations which made hands dirty or sweaty, would be eligible for quotas.

everyone knows that caste based reservations for OBCs began when then Prime Minister of India VP Singh decided to implement the Mandal Commission Report.

"everyone" is not as ignorant as you are. The Mandal Commission dealt with increasing the number (%) of quota seats to backward castes, and not for starting the quotas for the first time. The Convent educated idlers and speech makers had  already introduced quotas from the beginning to anyone having the caste characterized as backward (engaged basically in work or task leading to dirty and sweaty hands, including farmers, carpenters and others). This not only created the system of undue benefits but also created a culture that manual and menial jobs were undesirable and needed to be shunned (even while using the Govt. help in the form of quotas etc.). Why do you think there is so much mess in India these days in terms of dirty buildings, roads, streets? Because everyone looks for Govt. handouts to  train for an office job.

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

*corrected*

wrong on both counts.

1. To have the uniform criminal code (in diluted form) was to spare people from some religions about harsh religion based punishments for crimes, such as amputation of hands etc. for thefts and stealing, while they lived according to their religious laws civilly without the UCC.

2. OBCs were granted reservations and caste benefits right from the beginning, when SC/STs got the quota benefits initially. I remember farmer category classmates of mine during 1950s in Govt. schools getting the free tuition etc., while the "higher" caste students didn't. The criterion for quotas was that anyone form castes engaged in occupations which made hands dirty or sweaty, would be eligible for quotas.

everyone knows that caste based reservations for OBCs began when then Prime Minister of India VP Singh decided to implement the Mandal Commission Report.

"everyone" is not as ignorant as you are. The Mandal Commission dealt with increasing the number (%) of quota seats to backward castes, and not for starting the quotas for the first time. The Convent educated idlers and speech makers had  already introduced quotas from the beginning to anyone having the caste characterized as backward (engaged basically in work or task leading to dirty and sweaty hands, including farmers, carpenters and others). This not only created the system of undue benefits but also created a culture that manual and menial jobs were undesirable and needed to be shunned (even while using the Govt. help in the form of quotas etc.). Why do you think there is so much mess in India these days in terms of dirty buildings, roads, streets? Because everyone looks for Govt. handouts to  train for an office job.

Wrong. Reservations for OBCs did not exist before VP Singh implementing them. Read this:

On January 1, 1979, the Morarji Desai government chose Bindeshwari Prasad Mandal, a former chief minister of Bihar, to head the Second Backward Class Commission. Mandal submitted his report two years later, on December 31, 1980. By then, the Morarji Desai government had fallen and Indira Gandhi came to power. It remained in deep freeze during her term and that of Rajiv Gandhi.

On August 7, 1990, then PM V P Singh announced in Parliament that his government had accepted the Mandal Commission report, which recommended 27% reservation for OBC candidates at all levels of its services. With the implementation of the report, OBC or Other Backward Classes made its way into the lexicon of India’s social justice movement...

In January 1953, the government had set up the First Backward Class Commission under the chairman of social reformer Kaka Kalelkar. The commission submitted its report in March 1955, listing 2,399 backward castes or communities, with 837 of them classified as ‘most backwards’. The report was never implemented.


http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/sunday-story-mandal-commission-report-25-years-later/

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
wrong on both counts.

1. To have the uniform criminal code (in diluted form) was to spare people from some religions about harsh religion based punishments for crimes, such as amputation of hands etc. for thefts and stealing, while they lived according to their religious laws civilly without the UCC.

2. OBCs were granted reservations and caste benefits right from the beginning, when SC/STs got the quota benefits initially. I remember farmer category classmates of mine during 1950s in Govt. schools getting the free tuition etc., while the "higher" caste students didn't. The criterion for quotas was that anyone form castes engaged in occupations which made hands dirty or sweaty, would be eligible for quotas.

everyone knows that caste based reservations for OBCs began when then Prime Minister of India VP Singh decided to implement the Mandal Commission Report.

"everyone" is not as ignorant as you are. The Mandal Commission dealt with increasing the number (%) of quota seats to backward castes, and not for starting the quotas for the first time. The Convent educated idlers and speech makers had  already introduced quotas from the beginning to anyone having the caste characterized as backward (engaged basically in work or task leading to dirty and sweaty hands, including farmers, carpenters and others). This not only created the system of undue benefits but also created a culture that manual and menial jobs were undesirable and needed to be shunned (even while using the Govt. help in the form of quotas etc.). Why do you think there is so much mess in India these days in terms of dirty buildings, roads, streets? Because everyone looks for Govt. handouts to  train for an office job.

Wrong. Reservations for OBCs did not exist before VP Singh implementing them. Read this:

On January 1, 1979, the Morarji Desai government chose Bindeshwari Prasad Mandal, a former chief minister of Bihar, to head the Second Backward Class Commission. Mandal submitted his report two years later, on December 31, 1980. By then, the Morarji Desai government had fallen and Indira Gandhi came to power. It remained in deep freeze during her term and that of Rajiv Gandhi.

On August 7, 1990, then PM V P Singh announced in Parliament that his government had accepted the Mandal Commission report, which recommended 27% reservation for OBC candidates at all levels of its services. With the implementation of the report, OBC or Other Backward Classes made its way into the lexicon of India’s social justice movement...

In January 1953, the government had set up the First Backward Class Commission under the chairman of social reformer Kaka Kalelkar. The commission submitted its report in March 1955, listing 2,399 backward castes or communities, with 837 of them classified as ‘most backwards’. The report was never implemented.


http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/sunday-story-mandal-commission-report-25-years-later/

Ask the Indian Express about special benefits granted during 1950s in Govt. schools and colleges to students and others from the backward castes which included farmers, carpenters, blacksmiths, shoe-makers and so on.

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps wrote:

everyone knows that caste based reservations for OBCs began when then Prime Minister of India VP Singh decided to implement the Mandal Commission Report.

"everyone" is not as ignorant as you are. The Mandal Commission dealt with increasing the number (%) of quota seats to backward castes, and not for starting the quotas for the first time. The Convent educated idlers and speech makers had  already introduced quotas from the beginning to anyone having the caste characterized as backward (engaged basically in work or task leading to dirty and sweaty hands, including farmers, carpenters and others). This not only created the system of undue benefits but also created a culture that manual and menial jobs were undesirable and needed to be shunned (even while using the Govt. help in the form of quotas etc.). Why do you think there is so much mess in India these days in terms of dirty buildings, roads, streets? Because everyone looks for Govt. handouts to  train for an office job.

Wrong. Reservations for OBCs did not exist before VP Singh implementing them. Read this:

On January 1, 1979, the Morarji Desai government chose Bindeshwari Prasad Mandal, a former chief minister of Bihar, to head the Second Backward Class Commission. Mandal submitted his report two years later, on December 31, 1980. By then, the Morarji Desai government had fallen and Indira Gandhi came to power. It remained in deep freeze during her term and that of Rajiv Gandhi.

On August 7, 1990, then PM V P Singh announced in Parliament that his government had accepted the Mandal Commission report, which recommended 27% reservation for OBC candidates at all levels of its services. With the implementation of the report, OBC or Other Backward Classes made its way into the lexicon of India’s social justice movement...

In January 1953, the government had set up the First Backward Class Commission under the chairman of social reformer Kaka Kalelkar. The commission submitted its report in March 1955, listing 2,399 backward castes or communities, with 837 of them classified as ‘most backwards’. The report was never implemented.


http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/sunday-story-mandal-commission-report-25-years-later/

Ask the Indian Express about special benefits granted during 1950s in Govt. schools and colleges to students and others from the backward castes which included farmers, carpenters, blacksmiths, shoe-makers and so on.

special benefits is not the same as caste based reservations.