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The four great wars of N.Ram on 'Hindu' soil

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Post by Guest Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:25 pm

http://wearethebest.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/the-four-great-wars-of-n-ram-on-hindu-soil/

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Post by truthbetold Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:26 am

That is an interesting read. It also explains the ups and downs of journalism in The Hindu.

That is why each family business has to go professional after first couple of generations.

The Hindu (with GK Reddy from Delhi) used to be lap dog of Indira and turned into a journalistic tiger under Ram. Sid Varadarajan's expose on Nuclear deal must have made MMS see red. Whatever may be family's internal politics, readers should hope "The Hindu' emerges as a solid journalistic enterprise.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:08 am

this is what is known as குடுமிப்பிடி சண்டை ("kudumi-pidi chaNdai"), i.e. fighting by holding on to and pulling each others' tufts. pretty pathetic to read about, but my own sympathies lie with the faction that opposes n.ram who is too left, too autocratic, and probably too old and senile. time to go.
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:09 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:this is what is known as குடுமிப்பிடி சண்டை ("kudumi-pidi chaNdai"), i.e. fighting by holding on to and pulling each others' tufts. pretty pathetic to read about, but my own sympathies lie with the faction that opposes n.ram who is too left, too autocratic, and probably too old and senile. time to go.

if you notice, the Hindu is supposed to have become even more left wing during the 10 years N.Ravi was in charge which is why Kasturi brought in Ram as editor in chief. the difference in age between N.Ravi and N.Murali (Ram's real brothers) with N.Ram is one and two years respectively.

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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:14 pm

I don't understand. Some of the tambams are ardent leftists and hindu haters. Why is that so? They were the priviledged ones in the caste system. Do their current leanings stem from the (subconcious) guilt complex for what their ancestors did or is it a pseudointellectual thing or is it coz of an inferiority complex abt every thing hindu?

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:18 pm

i don't know any hindu hating tambrahms. i know many atheists, and the atheists based on their behavior and self acknowledgment are culturally hindu. the lefty tambrahms were probably all educated in delhi university or JNU.
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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:29 pm

here's a nice article by ramachandra guha on n.ram's hypocrisy on china that's well worth a read:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1000908/editoria.htm#head3
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:31 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i don't know any hindu hating tambrahms. i know many atheists, and the atheists based on their behavior and self acknowledgment are culturally hindu. the lefty tambrahms were probably all educated in delhi university or JNU.

Why are most of them atheists? Is it because they make no sense of all the blind ritualistic form of hinduism that their elders/ancestors followed?

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:34 pm

where did you get that? most of them are NOT atheists. i said many not most. most tambrahms are very religious and very much ritual adhering down to the current generation (in their 20s).
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:35 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here's a nice article by ramachandra guha on n.ram's hypocrisy on china that's well worth a read:

[url=http://www.telegraphindia.com/1000908/editoria.htm#head3
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1000908/editoria.htm#head3[/quote[/url]]

Will read the article, but this Guha fella isn't too objective. He is biased towards Nehru and Nehruism.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:37 pm

hey everybody has biases. there is no such thing as an unbiased writer or observer. i like guha's writing. he is a careful historian and also a wonderful cricket writer. one of my favorite books is his loving and painstakingly researched book on the history of indian cricket, "in the corner of a foreign field: an indian history of a british sport".
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:45 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where did you get that? most of them are NOT atheists. i said many not most. most tambrahms are very religious and very much ritual adhering down to the current generation (in their 20s).

...u are, caru (not a tambram, but a brahmin) is, blab is, kris is. Some outrightly reject it. The other side of the coin is, there are many tambrams who are more into the intellectual aspect of Hinduism, studying the Upanishads, Adi Sankaracharya's works, geetha (all kinds...bhagavad gita, ashtavakra, ribu gita, etc) and trying to make sense/find meaning to the rituals that they were handed down. I find that (in my circle) only a minority are into following rituals blindly, as a cultural thing that was handed over to them thru generations.

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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:57 pm

Anyway, we'll just leave the topic here max Smile.

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Post by Guest Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:18 pm

kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:where did you get that? most of them are NOT atheists. i said many not most. most tambrahms are very religious and very much ritual adhering down to the current generation (in their 20s).

...u are, caru (not a tambram, but a brahmin) is, blab is, kris is. Some outrightly reject it. The other side of the coin is, there are many tambrams who are more into the intellectual aspect of Hinduism, studying the Upanishads, Adi Sankaracharya's works, geetha (all kinds...bhagavad gita, ashtavakra, ribu gita, etc) and trying to make sense/find meaning to the rituals that they were handed down. I find that (in my circle) only a minority are into following rituals blindly, as a cultural thing that was handed over to them thru generations.

kris is not an atheist; he is inclined towards monism. there are hindu schools of thought which are theist, monist, and atheistic . it is possible to be a hindu despite being an atheist or a monist for this reason.

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Post by Guest Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:30 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here's a nice article by ramachandra guha on n.ram's hypocrisy on china that's well worth a read:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1000908/editoria.htm#head3

Excellent article! I've read seth's "from heaven lake" and could relate. In fact I knew s. Varadarajan personally once and can attest that all these commies are a bunch of hypocrites and should be dealt with extreme suspicion.

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Post by Merlot Daruwala Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:30 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here's a nice article by ramachandra guha on n.ram's hypocrisy on china that's well worth a read:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1000908/editoria.htm#head3

Good read, thanks. IMO, ideological blinkers cause these curious cases of intellectual pretzelism aka hypocrisy.

And although Guha cites only leftists, this kind of behavior is not confined to that group. Staunch believers of all stripe keep looking for instances and events to validate their beliefs. So they end up interpreting various world events in a manner most favorable to their own dogma. A flag-waving American will view Tahrir square protests as the vanguard of the revolution for liberty and democracy in the region. A Marxist will view it as a proletariat revolution against economic injustices and for equitable distribution of wealth in the middle-east. An Islamist will interpret it as an uprising of the faithful to usher in a glorious period of Islamic revival, and so on.

The hypocrisy often gets exposed when the dogma is not applied consistently. Like the Marxist who employs a retinue of servants at home - one to drive him around, one to cook, one to clean the house, one to take care of the children etc. Or the NRI liberty-lover who is all for independence to the Tibetans and lines up to wave 'Free Tibet' banners in the US, but balks at the question of conducting a plebiscite in Kashmir over its future.
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Post by charvaka Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:26 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Or the NRI liberty-lover who is all for independence to the Tibetans and lines up to wave 'Free Tibet' banners in the US, but balks at the question of conducting a plebiscite in Kashmir over its future.
Aww, is that a dig at me? I am asking for a plebiscite neither in Tibet nor in Kashmir. I am asking for elections and the freedoms of speech and political organization in Tibet -- something which the people of Kashmir do enjoy. I wonder what blinkers you are wearing that renders you blind to the differences between Tibet and Kashmir.
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Post by charvaka Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here's a nice article by ramachandra guha on n.ram's hypocrisy on china that's well worth a read:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1000908/editoria.htm#head3
Good one! Thanks for posting.
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Post by charvaka Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:01 pm

kinnera wrote:Do their current leanings stem from the (subconcious) guilt complex for what their ancestors did or is it a pseudointellectual thing or is it coz of an inferiority complex abt every thing hindu?
scratch Assuming for a second that your observation is valid (which I think it is not), is your set of possible reasons for that observation collectively exhaustive?
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Post by Merlot Daruwala Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:16 am

charvaka wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:Or the NRI liberty-lover who is all for independence to the Tibetans and lines up to wave 'Free Tibet' banners in the US, but balks at the question of conducting a plebiscite in Kashmir over its future.
Aww, is that a dig at me? I am asking for a plebiscite neither in Tibet nor in Kashmir. I am asking for elections and the freedoms of speech and political organization in Tibet
Ah ok, I was mistaken about the extent of your fervor. Easy mistake, IMO, given that your banner screamed: Free Tibet. Like the Chinese, I really thought you're advocating "splittism".

But if it's only elections and the freedom of speech that you seek, why single out only the Tibetans for this favor? Why not the Uighurs who face persecution as well? Or the rest of the Chinese citizenry who in fact enjoy fewer rights than those in the Tibetan Autonomous Region? Aren't they human beings too, worthy of the most important freedom of speech and other inalienable rights granted to them by their creator?
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Post by charvaka Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:22 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Ah ok, I was mistaken about the extent of your fervor. Easy mistake, IMO, given that your banner screamed: Free Tibet. Like the Chinese, I really thought you're advocating "splittism".

But if it's only elections and the freedom of speech that you seek, why single out only the Tibetans for this favor? Why not the Uighurs who face persecution as well? Or the rest of the Chinese citizenry who in fact enjoy fewer rights than those in the Tibetan Autonomous Region? Aren't they human beings too, worthy of the most important freedom of speech and other inalienable rights granted to them by their creator?
Your entire tirade is based on an incorrect recollection of the facts. My banner did not scream "Free Tibet." My banner said "Made in China" below an Olympic logo formed with handcuffs. Here it is.

The four great wars of N.Ram on 'Hindu' soil Qzi8R
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Post by Merlot Daruwala Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:31 am

My recollection of the event is based purely on what you told us at the time.
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Post by charvaka Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:35 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:My recollection of the event is based purely on what you told us at the time.
That was a response to our dear friend Sandilya who worries about the monkey in his closet that will convert him to atheism. I posted the same picture on Sulekha the day after the protest in San Francisco.
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Post by Guest Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:38 am

I am very much enjoying these passive-aggressive pokes of agent.

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Post by charvaka Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:40 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:I am very much enjoying these passive-aggressive pokes of agent.
lol!
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Post by Guest Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:54 am

charvaka wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:My recollection of the event is based purely on what you told us at the time.
That was a response to our dear friend Sandilya who worries about the monkey in his closet that will convert him to atheism. I posted the same picture on Sulekha the day after the protest in San Francisco.

from the same thread (link given by Merlot):

sandilya:What is your protest for?

Charvaka: My protest is in support of Tibet's right to self-determination and the fundamental rights of its people.

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Post by Guest Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:54 pm

http://scroll.in/article/698290/One-more-senior-editor-has-left-the-Hindu-citing-a-lack-of-editorial-independence

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