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Dissection T1
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:26 am
Gambhir, Sehwag, SRT, VVSL, Kholi, Dhoni, Ishant, and Zaheer should be sent back to play through an entire Ranji season, and relearn to play 4-day games.
This team is too engulfed in Tonty-Tonty Gullidanda cricket, they have forgotten entirely the art of playing long-version of the game.
This is an utter shame...
Many of the batsmen have played MgGrath, Gillespie, and Brett Lee over a long time, and here they are falling flat at the feet of Sillydle, Hagendaz, and pattysson....
A team of batsmen with a total of more than 125 centuries cannot score a SINGLE century in 2 innings, and rise to the occassion to score a frikking < 300 runs, without resorting any sort of frikkin excuse.
Sachin the greatestest batsman ever - better than Bradman - MY FOOT.
RISE UP AND SHOW THAT YOU CAN MANHANDLE the OPPONENTS AT YOUR WILL and EARN the claim.
hero worshipping frikkin Indians....
WHAT A SHAME....
Now, I will take offline all the excuses offered on their behalf.
This team is too engulfed in Tonty-Tonty Gullidanda cricket, they have forgotten entirely the art of playing long-version of the game.
This is an utter shame...
Many of the batsmen have played MgGrath, Gillespie, and Brett Lee over a long time, and here they are falling flat at the feet of Sillydle, Hagendaz, and pattysson....
A team of batsmen with a total of more than 125 centuries cannot score a SINGLE century in 2 innings, and rise to the occassion to score a frikking < 300 runs, without resorting any sort of frikkin excuse.
Sachin the greatestest batsman ever - better than Bradman - MY FOOT.
RISE UP AND SHOW THAT YOU CAN MANHANDLE the OPPONENTS AT YOUR WILL and EARN the claim.
hero worshipping frikkin Indians....
WHAT A SHAME....
Now, I will take offline all the excuses offered on their behalf.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Dissection T1
by Another Brick Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:54 am
1) Indian opening is weak and that is mainly because Gambhir is out of form. That is costing us a lot of games.
2) Dhobi's captaincy is ridiculous at times. When Ponting and Hussey were scoring at ease yesterday, he did not apply pressure and let them get off the hook. He had a spread out field that helped the duo. Ditto when the last pair added 43 this morning.
3) SRT's wicket on IInd day was the turning point for IND. Only if he had stayed long enough, we would have surpassed AUS total.
4) But that aside, Gambhir, Laxman, Kohli and Dhobi - four batsmen - scored 60 runs in eight innings between them at an average of 7.X. Chris martin scores better. This fact ALONE cost us the game. Imagine what would have happened if they had scored at an average of even 20. 160 runs would have been added to the total which is more than the margin of defeat. These four and only these four are to blame here.
forget centuries, AUS hasn't been scoring too many but they have been winning games. in fact, whenever they score hundreds, they are losing (warner vs NZ, clarke vs SA). what we really needed was some 20s and 30s, no matter how scratchy. these over-fed (money-and-adulation-wise) bozos need to show a decent score against their wicket every time they walk out to bat.
there were times when IND didn't have the bowling to take 20 wickets and now we have that sort of attack but not good enough batting to score consistently. WTF? can't remember the last time when even three batsmen clicked against a decent attack.
2) Dhobi's captaincy is ridiculous at times. When Ponting and Hussey were scoring at ease yesterday, he did not apply pressure and let them get off the hook. He had a spread out field that helped the duo. Ditto when the last pair added 43 this morning.
3) SRT's wicket on IInd day was the turning point for IND. Only if he had stayed long enough, we would have surpassed AUS total.
4) But that aside, Gambhir, Laxman, Kohli and Dhobi - four batsmen - scored 60 runs in eight innings between them at an average of 7.X. Chris martin scores better. This fact ALONE cost us the game. Imagine what would have happened if they had scored at an average of even 20. 160 runs would have been added to the total which is more than the margin of defeat. These four and only these four are to blame here.
forget centuries, AUS hasn't been scoring too many but they have been winning games. in fact, whenever they score hundreds, they are losing (warner vs NZ, clarke vs SA). what we really needed was some 20s and 30s, no matter how scratchy. these over-fed (money-and-adulation-wise) bozos need to show a decent score against their wicket every time they walk out to bat.
there were times when IND didn't have the bowling to take 20 wickets and now we have that sort of attack but not good enough batting to score consistently. WTF? can't remember the last time when even three batsmen clicked against a decent attack.
Another Brick- Posts : 1495
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Re: Dissection T1
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:38 am
BCCI should renegotiate and remodel player contracts.
Class I contract should be same as Class 2 + bonus on winning + individual performance.
That will make them play for the extra money.
People should be included on CURRENT form and not past glory and performance with the hope they would succeed.
DHONI is a sheer waste
Gambhir is totally out of form
Sehwag has lost more games due to his rash batting than he has won for India - time to lafbhajan him.
Kholi is hogaiya... enough of him... Try Sharma..if not Tiwary...if not Pujara... it is unfair to make these wait forever in the hope BCCI's boys will score one day.
develop a separate team for tests... ONE day and tonty tonty players CANNOT - repeat CANNOT transform into test players.
Play for money or play for the country and pride.
Class I contract should be same as Class 2 + bonus on winning + individual performance.
That will make them play for the extra money.
People should be included on CURRENT form and not past glory and performance with the hope they would succeed.
DHONI is a sheer waste
Gambhir is totally out of form
Sehwag has lost more games due to his rash batting than he has won for India - time to lafbhajan him.
Kholi is hogaiya... enough of him... Try Sharma..if not Tiwary...if not Pujara... it is unfair to make these wait forever in the hope BCCI's boys will score one day.
develop a separate team for tests... ONE day and tonty tonty players CANNOT - repeat CANNOT transform into test players.
Play for money or play for the country and pride.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
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Age : 110
Re: Dissection T1
by Another Brick Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:59 am
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
People should be included on CURRENT form and not past glory and performance with the hope they would succeed.
right. harbhajan singh was carried for far too long only because he tool 32 wickets in a 3-match series 10 years ago. sehwag is carried in ODIs only based on his reputation. he is a mediocre ODI player (his 219 notwithstanding). raina was also given too long a rope in tests only because of his reputation in ODIs and T20s (on flat tracks). indian selectors need to take some bold decisions. they have started that with bowlers, and it is time to do the same for batsmen.
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Re: Dissection T1
by truthbetold Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:17 pm
Uppili thinks SRT was cause of all Indian problems. So much venom. Take it easy.
India won only 3 times in its history scoring more than 291 in 4th innings. Scoring lot of runs in away series in 4th innings is not easy as proven by history. Rest of the world does not fare very well in 4th innings.
Just like the top notch batsmen of the world have problems with Indian pitches and Indian spinners in India, Indian batsmen have technique issues against pace bowling on fast, bouncy and swinging wickets. one cannot change it unless BCCI decides revamp indian cricket and make half the national venues into fast bowler friendly. Indian batsmen make their MONEY and runs playing on low bounce slow pitches of India.
SRT , Dravid are exceptions and they put in many many hours of effort into reaching where they are. Gambhir's and Kohlis need to pay their dues to get there. However with so much money in flat track batting, i doubt if any of them will put in dravidian type of effort.
India may play well in Sydney which will help them 3rd or 4th day.
India won only 3 times in its history scoring more than 291 in 4th innings. Scoring lot of runs in away series in 4th innings is not easy as proven by history. Rest of the world does not fare very well in 4th innings.
Just like the top notch batsmen of the world have problems with Indian pitches and Indian spinners in India, Indian batsmen have technique issues against pace bowling on fast, bouncy and swinging wickets. one cannot change it unless BCCI decides revamp indian cricket and make half the national venues into fast bowler friendly. Indian batsmen make their MONEY and runs playing on low bounce slow pitches of India.
SRT , Dravid are exceptions and they put in many many hours of effort into reaching where they are. Gambhir's and Kohlis need to pay their dues to get there. However with so much money in flat track batting, i doubt if any of them will put in dravidian type of effort.
India may play well in Sydney which will help them 3rd or 4th day.
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Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Dissection T1
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:13 pm
truthbetold wrote:Uppili thinks SRT was cause of all Indian problems. So much venom. Take it easy.
India won only 3 times in its history scoring more than 291 in 4th innings. Scoring lot of runs in away series in 4th innings is not easy as proven by history. Rest of the world does not fare very well in 4th innings.
Just like the top notch batsmen of the world have problems with Indian pitches and Indian spinners in India, Indian batsmen have technique issues against pace bowling on fast, bouncy and swinging wickets. one cannot change it unless BCCI decides revamp indian cricket and make half the national venues into fast bowler friendly. Indian batsmen make their MONEY and runs playing on low bounce slow pitches of India.
SRT , Dravid are exceptions and they put in many many hours of effort into reaching where they are. Gambhir's and Kohlis need to pay their dues to get there. However with so much money in flat track batting, i doubt if any of them will put in dravidian type of effort.
India may play well in Sydney which will help them 3rd or 4th day.
I started this thread just for SRT fans like yourselves.
VVSL or Sehwag or RD or no Gambhir, a "greatest cricketer of all time" would have and should have grabbed this match by its horns and dragged his team past the victory line.
A master blaster does not give excuses or reasons rather B or blasts against the masters on any turf on any condition.
Alternatively, stop calling him master blaster, greatest cricketer etc... and call him simply "a great batsman". Me calling SRT a bluster is only half as funny as you guys calling this whiny wiener the master blaster.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
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Age : 110
Re: Dissection T1
by truthbetold Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:23 pm
Uppili,
show me a cricketer who played cricket better than SRT with the exception of Don and Vivian? I am almost sure Don would have his problems with sub continent pitches and spin. Don't you remember the mighty 1983 world cup wi team with Richards losing to unfancied Indians with military trundlers.
At age 38 and after couple of years of stellar performance, if SRT gets oput in an innings, you spout venom at him. Criticism is ok but mindless anger is unproductive.
SRT did not stop any other batsmen to score. None of the others could either. Frankly India does not have another replacement . For the past three or more years, Yuv Raj, Badri, Kohli, Mukund, Vijay, Kaif, and many others were tried. All of them have either flopped or could sustain positive scores for any strech of tests. Gambhir was the only credible Indian batsmen of the last few years and he is in terrible form.
Face the reality instead of dumping on SRT. Indian team is OK on Indian soil. Poor outside sub contient or even India.
Be happy that Indian bowling performed better than expected. It is possible that India may put together a winning test in this series.
show me a cricketer who played cricket better than SRT with the exception of Don and Vivian? I am almost sure Don would have his problems with sub continent pitches and spin. Don't you remember the mighty 1983 world cup wi team with Richards losing to unfancied Indians with military trundlers.
At age 38 and after couple of years of stellar performance, if SRT gets oput in an innings, you spout venom at him. Criticism is ok but mindless anger is unproductive.
SRT did not stop any other batsmen to score. None of the others could either. Frankly India does not have another replacement . For the past three or more years, Yuv Raj, Badri, Kohli, Mukund, Vijay, Kaif, and many others were tried. All of them have either flopped or could sustain positive scores for any strech of tests. Gambhir was the only credible Indian batsmen of the last few years and he is in terrible form.
Face the reality instead of dumping on SRT. Indian team is OK on Indian soil. Poor outside sub contient or even India.
Be happy that Indian bowling performed better than expected. It is possible that India may put together a winning test in this series.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Dissection T1
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:38 pm
truthbetold wrote:Uppili,
show me a cricketer who played cricket better than SRT with the exception of Don and Vivian? I am almost sure Don would have his problems with sub continent pitches and spin. Don't you remember the mighty 1983 world cup wi team with Richards losing to unfancied Indians with military trundlers.
At age 38 and after couple of years of stellar performance, if SRT gets oput in an innings, you spout venom at him. Criticism is ok but mindless anger is unproductive.
Excuses excuses and more exucuses....
If you must defend him giving such explanations, then he is no "Greatest batsman ever." Period.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
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Age : 110
Re: Dissection T1
by truthbetold Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 pm
Just for clarification: I do not regard SRT as greatest batsmen ever. Don and Vivian share that. Vivian would be my choice. I saw in person and on TV. He is a class apart.
I would rate SRT is a naturally gifted player who sees the ball early and play with good cricket technique. His greatness comes from his hardwork that enhanced his natural talent. Just to give an example, GR viswanath, who is probably more naturally talented than SRT but did not put in required hardwork, cannot be classified at the same level as SRT.
Call him whatever you want, but do not dump on him for every failure of Indian team.
Australia was a better team at MCG in the 1st. Their bowling unit bowled well and finished the job. India should regroup and look for grounds that give them a chance like sydney.
I would rate SRT is a naturally gifted player who sees the ball early and play with good cricket technique. His greatness comes from his hardwork that enhanced his natural talent. Just to give an example, GR viswanath, who is probably more naturally talented than SRT but did not put in required hardwork, cannot be classified at the same level as SRT.
Call him whatever you want, but do not dump on him for every failure of Indian team.
Australia was a better team at MCG in the 1st. Their bowling unit bowled well and finished the job. India should regroup and look for grounds that give them a chance like sydney.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
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Re: Dissection T1
by Another Brick Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:54 am
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:If you must defend him giving such explanations, then he is no "Greatest batsman ever." Period.
don bradman is the best test batsman of all time ever and nobody can take his spot. how can there be even an argument? it is funny when people bring SRT's 22 years into argument when calling him the greatest. imagine what would have happened only if bradman had played even half those matches. even gavaskar would have fared better had he played as many matches as SRT. he may not even be the greatest indian TEST batsman. to me, gavaskar is. and i see no real difference between SRT and Dravid when it comes to TESTS.
when it comes to ODIs, he is the best ever. there is not much argument there.
when someone talks about the greatest indian cricketer (all formats), SRT leaves SMG and RSD far behind because of his TESTS and ODI record (both bowling and batting). and to me, he is the best indian when you combine the two.
but if you are talking about world cricketers (even if you combine two formats), Kallis and Ponting are as good as him. Ponting does not get his due because of his cheating nature. i don't know why kallis does not get his due. maybe because he is not a very exciting stroke-maker. maybe because he does not have even one whirlwind innings that SRT and Ponting have in abundance.
indians (and most others too, i would think) like their heroes humble. SRT is humble. perhaps that is why he is the most popular cricketer ever (not to forget endorsements by the likes of bradman, warne, lara, richard). maybe that is why bharat ratna. that's why his 100 crore mansion and 300-500 crore wealth. none of this is his fault.
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Re: Dissection T1
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:13 am
Another Brick wrote:Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:If you must defend him giving such explanations, then he is no "Greatest batsman ever." Period.
don bradman is the best test batsman of all time ever and nobody can take his spot. how can there be even an argument? it is funny when people bring SRT's 22 years into argument when calling him the greatest. imagine what would have happened only if bradman had played even half those matches. even gavaskar would have fared better had he played as many matches as SRT. he may not even be the greatest indian TEST batsman. to me, gavaskar is. and i see no real difference between SRT and Dravid when it comes to TESTS.
when it comes to ODIs, he is the best ever. there is not much argument there.
when someone talks about the greatest indian cricketer (all formats), SRT leaves SMG and RSD far behind because of his TESTS and ODI record (both bowling and batting). and to me, he is the best indian when you combine the two.
but if you are talking about world cricketers (even if you combine two formats), Kallis and Ponting are as good as him. Ponting does not get his due because of his cheating nature. i don't know why kallis does not get his due. maybe because he is not a very exciting stroke-maker. maybe because he does not have even one whirlwind innings that SRT and Ponting have in abundance.
indians (and most others too, i would think) like their heroes humble. SRT is humble. perhaps that is why he is the most popular cricketer ever (not to forget endorsements by the likes of bradman, warne, lara, richard). maybe that is why bharat ratna. that's why his 100 crore mansion and 300-500 crore wealth. none of this is his fault.
I would consider Gary Sobers as the greatestest ever - a batsman, medium pacer, slowspinner, great fielder, captain, diplomat...
Everyone else is greatest batsman or bowler or fielder or wicketkeeper.
P.S. I consider SRT as a great indian batsman. But, if he had been dropped (as he should have) in 2005 and sent to play Ranji, I am not sure he would have worked his way back into the test team - like RD did.
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Re: Dissection T1
by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:01 am
we can always argue about these things, but for me the greatest indian cricketer of all time is anil kumble (close toss-up between him and kapil dev who misses narrowly), the greatest indian test batsman is sunny gavaskar, and my favorite test batsman on the current team is rahul dravid. the best batsman by any measure on the current team is sachin tendulkar. it's hard to come up with one name for the best batsman of all time. i think the don comes close. but it's not clear how he would have fared against a more varied opposition and on sub-continental pitches and against more high quality spin bowling. while he faced up to plenty of hostile fast bowling, the only high quality spinner he faced was hedley verity who dismissed him eight times in 16 innings and for not a lot of runs. it's interesting to think of how he might have played the likes of qadir, the spin quartet, kumble, or murali. he would never have had to face warne and he had some quite formidable spinners, both leggies, on his own side - clarrie grimmet and bill o reilly. might be interesting to look up his record against them in domestic shield matches.
edited to add: it's easy to read between the lines of my post and conclude that i value determination (kumble), pure grit (dravid and gavaskar), bravery (kumble and gavaskar), and a warrior's spirit (kumble and kapil) way more than pure talent (sachin and laxman). so jimmy amarnath ranks very high in my book though he doesn't have the stats to go with it.
edited to add: it's easy to read between the lines of my post and conclude that i value determination (kumble), pure grit (dravid and gavaskar), bravery (kumble and gavaskar), and a warrior's spirit (kumble and kapil) way more than pure talent (sachin and laxman). so jimmy amarnath ranks very high in my book though he doesn't have the stats to go with it.
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Re: Dissection T1
by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:44 am
the value and rank of a cricketer is a difficult thing. stats are supremely important, but they aren't the only ingredient. there are also things like on-field attitude, how much a player values team over individual performance, grit and courage, ability to inspire team mates etc. so my opinions aren't purely based on stats for if that's the case at least from an indian standpoint sachin and kumble would leave everyone in the dust. we don't even have to have a conversation.
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