Anthony Bourdain found dead in France

No reservations was one of my favorite shows. Parts unknown was pretty good too. Sad to see him go, it seems the cause was hanging

silvermani wrote:No reservations was one of my favorite shows. Parts unknown was pretty good too. Sad to see him go, it seems the cause was hanging

Whoa! tragedy-- he had had a very enviable life, RIP

garam_kuta wrote:

silvermani wrote:No reservations was one of my favorite shows. Parts unknown was pretty good too. Sad to see him go, it seems the cause was hanging

Whoa! tragedy-- he had had a very enviable life, RIP

I used to feel like that too but it looks like he got tired of it all. In some episodes he openly wondered how long he could keep it all going. I thought he was just being self deprecating but didn't think that he was batting demons in his head. He seemed like a pretty chilled out guy.

Just wondering why cannot people retire once they reach some stage? Is it because of boredom/loneliness they take this step?

FluteHolder wrote:Just wondering why cannot people retire once they reach some stage? Is it because of boredom/loneliness they take this step?

What makes you think retirement would have made whatever he was fighting inside his head go away? For many people, retirement makes things worse, much worse.

Sad. I liked him. Good show, good host with empathy for the people on his show.

FluteHolder wrote:Just wondering why cannot people retire once they reach some stage? Is it because of boredom/loneliness they take this step?

I was thinking the same thing. There's a limit to any artist's  capability. Beyond a point, the creative well dries up. Why not just retire and take it easy?

one word: depression
or make it two words: mental health

I donot see why one cannot enjoy retirement if they have enough funds  for their lifestyle and a good partner, and hobbies or traveling if they can afford which would help not to take this route. If they are believers, there is always activities on that aspect to avoid boredom. I have seen a few multimillionaires who constantly worried about making more money than taking care of their health/family. With the money they have they could retire now or delegate their operations but choose to continue to get into the grind... I guess once they go after money, it comes the highest priority even they have enough...

I remember Sri M puts this way: people keep running/working all their life to accumulate things/money, and with a knowledge that they cannot take anything along with them and yet continue to work on that goal/way...

rasāsvāda wrote:one word: depression
or make it two words: mental health

Indeed. There is so much mind space and $ devoted to cancer, and much of it justifiably so, but this too seems to me to me an incurable disease. It's doubly hard when you see a friend or a family member suffer. There seems to be an epidemic and the numbers bear out that conclusion.  Bourdain was a celebrity and probably had access to every healthcare resource, but there are many who don't,  and this idiotic administration's inattention to healthcare if going to make it much worse

FluteHolder wrote:I donot see why one cannot enjoy retirement if they have enough funds  for their lifestyle and a good partner, and hobbies or traveling if they can afford which would help not to take this route. If they are believers, there is always activities on that aspect to avoid boredom. I have seen a few multimillionaires who constantly worried about making more money than taking care of their health/family. With the money they have they could retire now or delegate their operations but choose to continue to get into the grind... I guess once they go after money, it comes the highest priority even they have enough...

I remember Sri M puts this way: people keep running/working all their life to accumulate things/money, and with a knowledge that they cannot take anything along with them and yet continue to work on that goal/way...

What if the only thing that drives them and makes it possible for them to wake up in the morning is the work they passionately enjoy doing? And what if despite that they still feel hollow inside? What if his work is the only thing that kept Bourdain alive for so long?

If you watched Bourdain, it was amply clear that what he was doing gave him joy. It was certainly not about $.

If He really enjoyed and passionate about his work, he would not have chosen this. There must be something else bothering him or some void which no one knows except his close ones. There was a highly accomplished cardiac surgeon/doc in Chennai who committed suicide and he is well known and was single. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayil_John_Cherian

Death and the surrounding mystery[edit]

Official reports mention that the death of Thayil was due to head injuries suffered in a fall, death happening on the spot. The death occurred at the parking lot of his apartment complex at Abhiramapuram, in Chennai and his body was found on top of a parked car. Police investigations revealed that Thayil went up to the terrace of the building from where the fall occurred. However, the reason for the suicide is still unknown as it is reported that the doctor had no known enemies and had gone through the daily routine, on the day of his death, with no apparent deviations. No one's presence was also reported at the terrace and the Police closed the matter as a case of suicide.^[2][5][6]

FluteHolder wrote:If He really enjoyed and passionate about his work, he would not have chosen this. There must be something else bothering him or some void which no one knows except his close ones. There was a highly accomplished cardiac surgeon/doc in Chennai who committed suicide and he is well known and was single. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayil_John_Cherian

Death and the surrounding mystery[edit]

Official reports mention that the death of Thayil was due to head injuries suffered in a fall, death happening on the spot. The death occurred at the parking lot of his apartment complex at Abhiramapuram, in Chennai and his body was found on top of a parked car. Police investigations revealed that Thayil went up to the terrace of the building from where the fall occurred. However, the reason for the suicide is still unknown as it is reported that the doctor had no known enemies and had gone through the daily routine, on the day of his death, with no apparent deviations. No one's presence was also reported at the terrace and the Police closed the matter as a case of suicide.^[2][5][6]

I don't think depression and mental health issues in highly functioning adults is as simple as you describe, i.e. if one enjoy's one's work and is passionate, suicide isn't a possibility. One can be happy at work, happy in their personal life and still have something gnawing at them.  For some religion, God etc may provide some relief. And that's a good thing. For some they don't. And I disagree that people close to him would have known.  I know cases where the family had no clue.  It is truly impossible to know what someone is battling in their innermost core.

I reject every bromide about mental health. There are no easy cures.

Maybe this is the human condition. For millennia our ancestors were consumed with fighting everyday battles of survival. And now that basic needs are assured for those of us who live in reasonable material comfort, our mind has to invent battles to fight.

“Low plastic stool, cheap but delicious noodles, cold Hanoi beer.” This is how I’ll remember Tony. He taught us about food — but more importantly, about its ability to bring us together. To make us a little less afraid of the unknown. We’ll miss him." - BO

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:


What if the only thing that drives them and makes it possible for them to wake up in the morning is the work they passionately enjoy doing? And what if despite that they still feel hollow inside? What if his work is the only thing that kept Bourdain alive for so long?

If you watched Bourdain, it was amply clear that what he was doing gave him joy. It was certainly not about $.

As long as one is Joyfully involved in action (of any or no significance), there is no space for being hollow inside. It is only once the Joy had dried up but they are at the act by habit or insecurity of not knowing what else to fill the space with then repetition - boredom - emptiness - depression sets in.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

“Low plastic stool, cheap but delicious noodles, cold Hanoi beer.” This is how I’ll remember Tony. He taught us about food — but more importantly, about its ability to bring us together. To make us a little less afraid of the unknown. We’ll miss him." - BO

watched this one... XH regularly watched his shows, reason why I did too, otherwise i rarely switch on the box myself. When you are out with XH (a past tense thing now), 9/10 you will eat good food. can trust him on spotting the best places anywhere. When travelling, I do other research on what to see, he knows the best streets in terms of food. Part of it, i think, came from watching Bourdain's shows, atleast the international cuisine and stuff.

smArtha wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:


What if the only thing that drives them and makes it possible for them to wake up in the morning is the work they passionately enjoy doing? And what if despite that they still feel hollow inside? What if his work is the only thing that kept Bourdain alive for so long?

If you watched Bourdain, it was amply clear that what he was doing gave him joy. It was certainly not about $.

As long as one is Joyfully involved in action (of any or no significance), there is no space for being hollow inside. It is only once the Joy had dried up but they are at the act by habit or insecurity of not knowing what else to fill the space with then repetition - boredom - emptiness - depression sets in.

There are many people who were incredibly productive and engaged in creative work till the day they died for this to be patently false. With respect, I do not think such easy statements can be made about mental illness. I  am obviously not going to give you information about people I know in my own life. But it may be worthwhile reading about Ludwig Boltzmann, Paul Ehrenfest, G.H.Hardy, C.P.Ramanujam (not to be confused with the more famous Srinivasa Ramanujam), and Van Gogh -- a few creative people in physics/math and art who were still at it almost right to the moment of their death.  Anyway, we may not be able to agree about this. I feel our Indian culture tries to simplify mental illness. That something is fundamentally wrong with a person who chooses to commit suicide. One can be high functioning, creative, productive, seemingly at ease at work and in their personal lives and still choose to end it all. I think we have only barely scratched the surface of trying to understand the complexity of human brains.

If a man sprained his leg, you ask him to rest, apply bandage, iodex, etc. Fracturing may require more treatment. But if he loses his leg, you can't ask him to do all this and complain why is he not walking already. he needs crutches, prosthetic, wheelchair. Easier to see in a physical disability. Hard to see in a mental disability.

there is depression, as in the blues which we all understand; and then there is depression, as in clinical depression. repetition, boredom, blues all have mostly external causes and therapies. Clinical depression comes from within. that's the line one has to repeat often to understand it. 'Clinical depression comes from within'. You may want to think of external triggers, but understand one basic - it's in the head, possibly coz of chemical changes that we haven't fully grasped yet. Sometimes the sufferer invents triggers to help understand their own condition. But none of those are real causes, and focusing on fixing those causes will still not treat the main condition, although it may give the appearances of doing so. Treatments require medical intervention and personal therapy.

And that's the current darker side of mental health. sometimes, if the treatment is not correct, or has to be changed, it can have worse dire effects on someone than the original condition itself. Maybe 50 years from now people will look back and marvel how so many lives were lost just coz people didn't get the right treatment at the right time.

Sad news. I rarely watch his show but happened to catch the recent Hong Kong one a few days ago. I definitely did not pick up the struggle he must have been going through inside his head.

"I feel our Indian culture tries to simplify mental illness."

and finds it very offensive if you even suggest it, lol.

I had a friend from middle school, who had a history of, in her own words, 'not a very sound mind'. she was a topper and with me in undergrad too, doing great in school, but for years she envied pretty much anyone who gave the slightest appearance of being happy and content, regardless of their other abilities. She had a couple of typical targets for years, and later, sadly coz of Facebook, her miseries would multiply every time this particular friend posted anything positive. no matter how much boosting up or counseling i did for her, nothing seemed to work. Years of this, and after she had left one too many depressing voice mails on my phone, one day i told her that while i think her symptoms are very mild, it would be a good idea to seek a p-doc to evaluate herself. Now, I should have stopped here, but the smart me went on to mention specific ailments that i thought she had. I clarified though that it may be nothing coz i am not qualified to diagnose anyone, but if she does have some issue, better to get treated coz it's not a good thing for kids to have a mother with mental issues. She said ok, then called back 2 months later saying she got a clean chit from the p-doc and that she's completely normal. I said that's great, one thing out of the way. Then the rest of the call, she had a very nasty tone, passive-aggressively insulted me for pretty much everything like i am some lowly person. Called me bhaiya (she was always a bigot, but had never said anything to my face before). It was clear she was pissed at me, and i could sense she was pissed coz how did i even suspect her to be 'paagal'. 3 months later I discovered that she had cut me off FB. I tried adding her back, but no reply from her.

other unrelated tidbit, coz now i am triggered, heh...

2 months after cutting me off, she sent back a friend's request, and i added her. But I thought I will test her a bit. Coz on rethinking 30 years of our conversations, i realized she was jealous of me too this entire time, although at the time i took her comments as a friendly banter. Since she had such strong beliefs about everything, her reactions were more of a joke between us friends, even her staunch bigotry. Moreover, at that age and time, i was used to my friends discussing me with me, hard to explain but it happened a lot, so i didn't think she was that odd at the time. She was never happy about me marrying XH, coz in her mind he could have married a nice girl from within community, and she told me that indirectly many times. In one of our last talks, when she reappeared in my life, I had told her about my divorce, and she had taken it pretty hard, but i didn't give her the dirty on why we divorced and specified that we still live together. The last comment she had on my FB after our last talk was when i posted a photo with XH. So anyway, when she added me back I removed her access from some pics i only shared with school friends, to see if she will notice. Within 2 hours she unfriended me again.

And that was the end of that story. Hard to lose a friend, but no one wants a jealous competitive stalker. In a way i am glad that topic of mental health happened. Coz for years i was counseling her while she treated me badly. And it was a one way traffic. She would come and go as she pleased, and didn't do much to hide her bigotry or envy. Had i not brought that topic up, and she had not been so nasty to me in return, i would have kept on carrying that burden, mostly out of concern for her well being.

I've come to the conclusion that the notion of a "normal" person is a myth to strive for. We are all somewhere on the neurotic spectrum.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

smArtha wrote:


As long as one is Joyfully involved in action (of any or no significance), there is no space for being hollow inside. It is only once the Joy had dried up but they are at the act by habit or insecurity of not knowing what else to fill the space with then repetition - boredom - emptiness - depression sets in.

There are many people who were incredibly productive and engaged in creative work till the day they died for this to be patently false. With respect, I do not think such easy statements can be made about mental illness. I  am obviously not going to give you information about people I know in my own life. But it may be worthwhile reading about Ludwig Boltzmann, Paul Ehrenfest, G.H.Hardy, C.P.Ramanujam (not to be confused with the more famous Srinivasa Ramanujam), and Van Gogh -- a few creative people in physics/math and art who were still at it almost right to the moment of their death.  Anyway, we may not be able to agree about this. I feel our Indian culture tries to simplify mental illness. That something is fundamentally wrong with a person who chooses to commit suicide. One can be high functioning, creative, productive, seemingly at ease at work and in their personal lives and still choose to end it all. I think we have only barely scratched the surface of trying to understand the complexity of human brains.

Being productive and creative have nothing to do with being able to continue to derive Joy out of it. Whatever be the reason for it, but once Joy dries up, even those doing the grandest of things feel that life is a drag. Those who feel they have had enough may decide to end it. Others may work on finding alternate vocations or avocations. There is nothing wrong in ending one's life for a 'worthwhile' cause or when nothing 'worthwhile' is left to be accomplished/done.

the problem is that most people delude themselves and strive to become they are just what they do - their vocation; sadly, oblivious to engaging in equally exciting, other possibilities.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I've come to the conclusion that the notion of a "normal" person is a myth to strive for. We are all somewhere on the neurotic spectrum.

Right on the money! No one can claim they are happy always and never been ever depressed. One could even have suicidal thoughts at some point or the other. It could be because of situations in life, relationship problems, stress or chemical imbalances. Medications, therapy and more importantly, support and understanding from the near and dear ones is what's needed.

It affects everyone and it's everyone's concern. More needs to be done in this area.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I've come to the conclusion that the notion of a "normal" person is a myth to strive for. We are all somewhere on the neurotic spectrum.

Max, 
This is the best comment you have made in years.
Dammit, and all this while I thought it was Northindian/Southindian and castu A/B/C/D/E

Looks like folks here are getting older and losing their Northindian/Southindian and Castu steam... 

As time goes By...

smArtha wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

smArtha wrote:


As long as one is Joyfully involved in action (of any or no significance), there is no space for being hollow inside. It is only once the Joy had dried up but they are at the act by habit or insecurity of not knowing what else to fill the space with then repetition - boredom - emptiness - depression sets in.

There are many people who were incredibly productive and engaged in creative work till the day they died for this to be patently false. With respect, I do not think such easy statements can be made about mental illness. I  am obviously not going to give you information about people I know in my own life. But it may be worthwhile reading about Ludwig Boltzmann, Paul Ehrenfest, G.H.Hardy, C.P.Ramanujam (not to be confused with the more famous Srinivasa Ramanujam), and Van Gogh -- a few creative people in physics/math and art who were still at it almost right to the moment of their death.  Anyway, we may not be able to agree about this. I feel our Indian culture tries to simplify mental illness. That something is fundamentally wrong with a person who chooses to commit suicide. One can be high functioning, creative, productive, seemingly at ease at work and in their personal lives and still choose to end it all. I think we have only barely scratched the surface of trying to understand the complexity of human brains.

Being productive and creative have nothing to do with being able to continue to derive Joy out of it. Whatever be the reason for it, but once Joy dries up, even those doing the grandest of things feel that life is a drag. Those who feel they have had enough may decide to end it. Others may work on finding alternate vocations or avocations. There is nothing wrong in ending one's life for a 'worthwhile' cause or when nothing 'worthwhile' is left to be accomplished/done.

i knew something was bothering me from this post but i had read it in a hurry then... no i don't agree. Prime example that comes to my mind is of the artist Monet, who, when he was in his early 40s, tried to kill himself out of despair of being unsuccessful and/or some personal losses. Luckily he was unsuccessful in his suicide attempt, and went to live the next 40 years of his life enjoying fame and money for his worth, which is pretty rare among artists, especially of that era in France. Many got their fame posthumously, sometimes after suicides. 

I don't want to presume anything, but most people do not think of suicide or are sympathetic of it. I know i have never, at least not so far, and I have been in fairly shitty situations in my life. Not bragging or saying i am strong or others are weak, just explaining the difference how not everyone thinks or talks of killing themselves; and if you hear someone saying that, the medical advice is to take that seriously, ask serious questions, and if the person talking about it has had any kind of violence in the past, then be extra watchful about them. From the limited medical knowledge that I have, I really don't think it's casual, at least as an adult, to contemplate taking your own life, and if one is thinking of it, they should be more aware of their own feelings and seek help as needed.

rasāsvāda wrote:
i knew something was bothering me from this post but i had read it in a hurry then... no i don't agree. Prime example that comes to my mind is of the artist Monet, who, when he was in his early 40s, tried to kill himself out of despair of being unsuccessful and/or some personal losses. Luckily he was unsuccessful in his suicide attempt, and went to live the next 40 years of his life enjoying fame and money for his worth, which is pretty rare among artists, especially of that era in France. Many got their fame posthumously, sometimes after suicides. 

I don't want to presume anything, but most people do not think of suicide or are sympathetic of it. I know i have never, at least not so far, and I have been in fairly shitty situations in my life. Not bragging or saying i am strong or others are weak, just explaining the difference how not everyone thinks or talks of killing themselves; and if you hear someone saying that, the medical advice is to take that seriously, ask serious questions, and if the person talking about it has had any kind of violence in the past, then be extra watchful about them. From the limited medical knowledge that I have, I really don't think it's casual, at least as an adult, to contemplate taking your own life, and if one is thinking of it, they should be more aware of their own feelings and seek help as needed.

Really a sensible post.