how to beat a traffic ticket

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:00 pm

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/physicist-claims-victory-over-traffic-ticket-physics-paper-151808710.html

hahaha! yeah the real life sheldon cooper is a russian! the actual paper is simple enough to read, quite fun actually with elementary kinematics and calculus (and missing articles thrown in for good measure; northindians are not the only ones who omit articles). ingenious method to fight a traffic ticket!

paper published in arXiv.

by Guest Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:05 pm

this is something sorta like our lukie is gonna do too, when he opted for a trial for his speeding ticket. Guess in his case the cop was riding a bike going in opposite direction when he tagged him. wish that case makes headlines too.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:27 pm

i didn't quite understand tracy's post, but if you have children you're trying to teach calculus to, this is an easy and interesting very practical application. the story that he beat a traffic ticket with it makes it even more interesting for the kids.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:20 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't quite understand tracy's post, but if you have children you're trying to teach calculus to, this is an easy and interesting very practical application. the story that he beat a traffic ticket with it makes it even more interesting for the kids.

Kinematics for kids, and differentiation ? they don't ever do these in NORMAL curriculum in high school. The kids will have to take AP Calculus or calc 2 in college for this.

and then integration?.... forget it MAX...this ain't the 80s.

by Guest Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:24 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't quite understand tracy's post, but if you have children you're trying to teach calculus to, this is an easy and interesting very practical application. the story that he beat a traffic ticket with it makes it even more interesting for the kids.

Kinematics for kids, and differentiation ? they don't ever do these in NORMAL curriculum in high school. The kids will have to take AP Calculus or calc 2 in college for this.

and then integration?.... forget it MAX...this ain't the 80s.

i think 'harvard calculus' can be taught to high school kids.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:59 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't quite understand tracy's post, but if you have children you're trying to teach calculus to, this is an easy and interesting very practical application. the story that he beat a traffic ticket with it makes it even more interesting for the kids.

Kinematics for kids, and differentiation ? they don't ever do these in NORMAL curriculum in high school. The kids will have to take AP Calculus or calc 2 in college for this.

and then integration?.... forget it MAX...this ain't the 80s.

i am not yet sure of what is taught in a standard high school calculus course. will find out soon enough. but in general i disagree with you that calculus needs to be watered down. with the kind of symbolic computation and plotting tools we have nowadays, if done in a thoughtful way, a lot of calculus can be taught effectively and early AFTER developing very strong algebraic manipulative skills and a sound background in euclidean geometry. these kids can be taught more not less in a shorter time than what we got at the same age.

much of the deficiencies i see in college students is not necessarily deficiencies in understanding calculus, but poor algebraic skills and poor geometric reasoning. things that should have been corrected in middle school not high school.

by MulaiAzhagi Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:46 am

===> Teaching Calculus to high school kids is like making them write critiques on Shakespeare's plays.

by MulaiAzhagi Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:58 am

===> It is too early in life to appreciate the true meaning, impact and the beauty of what is being learned.

by Guest Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:43 am

In the syllabus here, the mandatory ones in high school are algebra 2, geometry, trignometry and then ur choice of computer, economics, and one more thing (forgetting). Most regular kids coming from 8th grade do that. The advanced kids who already did algebra 2 or even geometry by 8th grade, get to chose calculus and its higher levels in high school if they are leaning towards math majors or engineering. The other kids, who were at regular levels until 8th grade but now want to pursue math, will have to somehow work extra, chose one of the mandatory courses as an elective (if the teachers are impressed), and then take calculus).

The way my daughter's attitude towards math is, trigonometry itself will scare her enough (and me in helping her with it). Forget calculus. (a secret and silent phew, coz even I have forgotten most of it beyond the basics).

by Kris Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:54 am

.

much of the deficiencies i see in college students is not necessarily deficiencies in understanding calculus, but poor algebraic skills and poor geometric reasoning. things that should have been corrected in middle school not high school.

>>>>Agree with this. As a grad assistant, some the subjects I tutored were pre calc and calc. Algebra skills *were* the root problem with most students. Now, I am going thru this with my kids. My son is taking pre-calc/ trig in his senior year and here's the rub, many of the local universities don't even require this as a requirement. One thing I noticed in middle school and ninth grade was jumping around to different topics instead of methodically building on skills. The end result is by the time they get to calc, it seems like the big, bad wolf.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:33 am

they are reading shakespeare's plays, the iliad and the odyssey, and
beowulf in the original and chaucer's tales in middle school. i am not sure why they can do advanced literary stuff (at least as far as i am concerned) but not math. kids will respond to beauty in math if the presentation is right.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:45 am

Kris wrote:.

much of the deficiencies i see in college students is not necessarily deficiencies in understanding calculus, but poor algebraic skills and poor geometric reasoning. things that should have been corrected in middle school not high school.

>>>>Agree with this. As a grad assistant, some the subjects I tutored were pre calc and calc. Algebra skills *were* the root problem with most students. Now, I am going thru this with my kids. My son is taking pre-calc/ trig in his senior year and here's the rub, many of the local universities don't even require this as a requirement. One thing I noticed in middle school and ninth grade was jumping around to different topics instead of methodically building on skills. The end result is by the time they get to calc, it seems like the big, bad wolf.

i am taking the approach that the math she is doing in (middle) school is extra stuff and what we do systematically and in-depth at home is the important thing. the result has been that she is breezing through the school stuff.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:51 am

Kris wrote:.

much of the deficiencies i see in college students is not necessarily deficiencies in understanding calculus, but poor algebraic skills and poor geometric reasoning. things that should have been corrected in middle school not high school.

>>>>Agree with this. As a grad assistant, some the subjects I tutored were pre calc and calc. Algebra skills *were* the root problem with most students. Now, I am going thru this with my kids. My son is taking pre-calc/ trig in his senior year and here's the rub, many of the local universities don't even require this as a requirement. One thing I noticed in middle school and ninth grade was jumping around to different topics instead of methodically building on skills. The end result is by the time they get to calc, it seems like the big, bad wolf.

Right....the HS math curriculum has Algebra and Trig and NO calculus. 90% of the kids do just that (even that is too much to expect). In this country, a kid is allowed to take his own path and speed down that road. Many desi and Chinku kids - pushed by their parents and nucleus educated families) do just that. There are kids who take Diff Eq. straight in college - but those are rare and are NOT - repeat NOT - standard.

Most state schools (leave out the flagship universities) take in students with just a 2.0 high school GPA. almost all these kids fail math placement tests and end up doing pre-calc.

And oh, it is also wrong to assume that all Indian kids do exemplary in school. It is just that smart kids are friends with smart ones giving the appearance that all Indian kids are fantastic. But, it is not even close. But, agree...it is still very high % wise compared to other ethnic groups. The Vietnamese, Korean, and Chinkus are just as competitive, but it is the Indians kids that draw attention.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:03 pm

i would NOT recommend taking diff eq straight in college even if a kid has a strong calculus background. we didn't do that at IIT even though prepping for the JEE and even regular school stuff gave us a pretty strong calculus background. there are some very subtle ideas like the mean value theorem and leibniz integral rule that no school calculus course (i don't care how good it is) is going to emphasize to any great extent. they'll miss out on these very important ideas if they don't take the college calc courses and go straight to diff eq.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:16 pm

Agree.... not advisable. But, VERY rarely, there are kids who do that. The college environment and teaching approach are different and kids should not plunge into a program that strongly.

by Kris Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:50 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they are reading shakespeare's plays, the iliad and the odyssey, and
beowulf in the original and chaucer's tales in middle school. i am not sure why they can do advanced literary stuff (at least as far as i am concerned) but not math. kids will respond to beauty in math if the presentation is right.

>>>> I have a suspicion that at least in math that the teachers have to show that they have 'taught' x,y and z and there is a rush to get these things out of the way (maybe different in private schools, I don't know for sure). The rush results in having to re-visit some of this stuff over and over again, since it was never drilled in properly. I have been impressed with the rest of the stuff they are doing, but math has been the one area of disappointment. I have been doing a bit of mild brainwashing on the side about the beauty of math etc etc and am hoping this will pay off at least in the form of at least a couple of classes in calc and physics, even if they major in something that does not require it. They have also been going to an outfit known as 'mathnasium' where they give them extra stuff to do. As it turns out, the one they go to is owned by Indians and one of the instructors there is an IIT Aeronautical Engineer. I am also hoping for some synergies there.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:53 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:they are reading shakespeare's plays, the iliad and the odyssey, and
beowulf in the original and chaucer's tales in middle school. i am not sure why they can do advanced literary stuff (at least as far as i am concerned) but not math. kids will respond to beauty in math if the presentation is right.

>>>> . They have also been going to an outfit known as 'mathnasium' where they give them extra stuff to do. As it turns out, the one they go to is owned by Indians and one of the instructors there is an IIT Aeronautical Engineer. I am also hoping for some synergies there.

[b]

Is that + or -?

by Kris Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:02 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> Teaching Calculus to high school kids is like making them write critiques on Shakespeare's plays.

>>>Actually you can do both if you are talking about the last two years of high school, if the foundation is right. I have seen some of my kids' works and the high schooler definitely can handle a Shakespeare class. He has been dabbling in Macbeth on his own since 10th grade and won entry into a state arts program two summers ago, based on his reprisal of Romeo Montague (balcony scene). Calculus- he can't do. See my other posts in this thread.

by Kris Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:26 pm

P.S. The point of my post was let's not underestimate our kids and dumb things down for them. I sometimes think this is a nationwide malaise right how.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:49 am

Rashmun wrote:

i think 'harvard calculus' can be taught to high school kids.

was reading this yesterday and it is of relevance, so thought i'll plonk it here.

in particular it reinforces my own view of harvard calculus:

It is particularly important that the calculus taught in high school
should be a substantive course that prepares students for further work
in mathematics. A weak overview of calculus does little to reinforce
student knowledge of algebra, geometry, or trigonometry. In fact, it may
encourage slighting these subjects in order to get into the calculus
course that will improve the appearance of one’s transcript. On the
other hand, a solid calculus course should require and help develop a
level of mastery of these core subjects that is essential for any
further work in mathematics.

my own view is that the middle school years and the freshman high school year should be spent in developing as strong a core background in algebra, geometry, and trig as is possible. doing a watered down calculus course does more harm than good. if a student is going to do calculus, it should come after the student has developed an abundance of confidence in the core areas and it should be a substantive calculus course.

by Petrichor Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:08 am

This is the highest level of Calculus in High Schools in US today:

apcentral.collegeboard.com slash apc slash public slash repository slash ap-calculus-course-description.pdf

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:42 am

what's with all the slash and dash? why can't you just post the darned link?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:51 am

http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/repository/ap-calculus-course-description.pdf

here's the link atcg posted above.

good stuff. thanks atcg.

by Petrichor Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:00 pm

New members cannot post links!

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:48 pm

spent some time looking at ATCG's link. both the AB and BC exams cover a good amount of very solid material. if done properly i suspect these courses could form a rock solid foundation for college courses in the engineering and physical sciences and economics disciplines. the exams are challenging but doable with a lot of practice. but they're not the JEE unraveling one little trick and the whole thing unfolds before you kind of problems.

by Petrichor Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:34 pm

Which is more realistic in practical settings? The artifice of the little trick unraveling or the drudgery and symphony of several concepts at play?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:57 pm

atcg wrote:Which is more realistic in practical settings? The artifice of the little trick unraveling or the drudgery and symphony of several concepts at play?

without question, the latter.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:54 pm

atcg wrote:Which is more realistic in practical settings? The artifice of the little trick unraveling or the drudgery and symphony of several concepts at play?

Depends: whichever method helps best in fighting a traffic ticket in court.

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