Shaiva/Vaishnava divide in Southern Maharashtra

by Guest Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:46 pm

And in the Madhva Vaisnava
family of Deshpandes in southern Maharashtra where my grand-father grew
up, the name of god Shiva was banned from the house, because they were
worshippers of Vishnu. In the Madhva Vaishnava dialect of Marathi in our
house, they would not use the common Marathi verb "shiv" to sew clothes,
but found alternative words. Even while scrubbing floors, the Madhva Vaishnava
women of my family many generations ago used to scrub floors with vertical
motions of hand, rather than sideways, because that [=the sidewise movement]
resembled the Shaiva marks on the forehead. Such was the Shaiva/Vaishnava
divide, part of daily experience even within my own family a few generations
ago.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00litlinks/txt_deshpande_letter.html

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by Petrichor Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:50 pm

In politics and sociology, divide and rule (derived from Latin: divide et impera) (also known as divide and conquer) is a combination of political, military and economic strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. The concept refers to a strategy that breaks up existing power structures and prevents smaller power groups from linking up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

ps. I dont think I am the first person to copy-paste without reading the material...caveat emptor!

by Guest Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:57 pm

atcg wrote:In politics and sociology, divide and rule (derived from Latin: divide et impera) (also known as divide and conquer) is a combination of political, military and economic strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. The concept refers to a strategy that breaks up existing power structures and prevents smaller power groups from linking up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

ps. I dont think I am the first person to copy-paste without reading the material...caveat emptor!

----
in fact i deplore this saiva/vaisnava divide and am happy to state that no such divide is in place in the state of uttar pradesh. the traditional way of overcoming this divide is to have Lord Shiva showing respect for Lord Vishnu (or one of his avataars like Lord Rama) and Lord Vishnu (or one of his avataars) showing respect for Lord Rama. This is what Tulsidas does in the RamCharitManas.

i think this divide is a thing of the past now and should be treated as nothing more than a historical curiosity.

by Guest Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:38 pm

Rashmun wrote:
atcg wrote:In politics and sociology, divide and rule (derived from Latin: divide et impera) (also known as divide and conquer) is a combination of political, military and economic strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. The concept refers to a strategy that breaks up existing power structures and prevents smaller power groups from linking up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

ps. I dont think I am the first person to copy-paste without reading the material...caveat emptor!

----
in fact i deplore this saiva/vaisnava divide and am happy to state that no such divide is in place in the state of uttar pradesh. the traditional way of overcoming this divide is to have Lord Shiva showing respect for Lord Vishnu (or one of his avataars like Lord Rama) and Lord Vishnu (or one of his avataars) showing respect for Lord ~~Rama~~ Shiva. This is what Tulsidas does in the RamCharitManas.

i think this divide is a thing of the past now and should be treated as nothing more than a historical curiosity.

*corrected*

by chameli Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:01 pm

rashmun,

I wasn't aware the divide was so deep and palpable

so somebody who worships Ganesh ..is he a shiva bhakt ( seeing that Ganesh was SHiva's son )

but everyone worships Ganesh as god of good beginnings and luck

perhaps we have come a long way

ganesh puja was started by Lok manya Tilak ..... defying the ban on public processions..

and surely he was a shaivite Brahmin

by chameli Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:04 pm

one more question

are vaishnavites as a rule......... non brahmins ?

and shaivites ........................ brahmins ?

by Guest Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:39 pm

chameli wrote:one more question

are vaishnavites as a rule......... non brahmins ?

and shaivites ........................ brahmins ?

i think its possible to be a shaivite or vaisnavite without being a brahmin. for instance, the lingayats of karnataka are shaivites but not brahmins, and i am sure there is a similar example for vaishnavites.

by Guest Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:44 pm

chameli wrote:rashmun,

I wasn't aware the divide was so deep and palpable

so somebody who worships Ganesh ..is he a shiva bhakt ( seeing that Ganesh was SHiva's son )

but everyone worships Ganesh as god of good beginnings and luck

perhaps we have come a long way

ganesh puja was started by Lok manya Tilak ..... defying the ban on public processions..

and surely he was a shaivite Brahmin

Ganesha would be a Shaiva deity, and Hanuman would be a Vaisnava deity but there is a Tamil temple in Chennai which has a very interesting deity: Half of this deity is Hanuman, while the other half is Ganesha.

In general, all hindus today respect Shiva and Vishnu. They may place more emphasis on Shiva but they would also respect Vishnu; and vice versa.

by chameli Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:33 am

well Ram and Krishna were Kshatriyas .,,not Brahmins

so their worshippers would have to be non Brahmins too

Hanuman being one of them

whereas Shiva the austere one definitely sounds like a Brahmin ..a stuck up, temperamental Brahmin lol !!

by Guest Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:00 am

This is from the Upanisads:

-----

Then Vidagdha Sakalya questioned him. "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

He answered in accord with the following Nivid (invocationary formula) : "As many as are mentioned in the Nivid of the Hymn to All the Gods, namely, three hundred and three, and three thousand and three (=3306) ."

"Yes," said he, "but just how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

"Thirty-three."

"Yes," said he, "but just how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

"Six."

"Yes," said he, "but just how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

"Three."

"Yes," said he, "but just how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

"Two."
"Yes," said he, "but just how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

One and a half."

"Yes," said he, "but just how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

"One."

http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?C=946&title=704

by chameli Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:43 am

thats a cool answer

and correct too

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