Indians in America – Caste Adrift

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 6:10 pm

Sure my father disapproved of the caste system, but he also disapproved of his kids going into careers in business. Instead he guided my brother and me towards classic Brahmin fields, education, medicine, science.

And so, here I am, working as a journalist in the U.S, making my parents proud for picking a career that just happens to be Brahmin-like.

Now, I’ll never join a caste-based organization or even put my kids through any ceremony.

But, I wonder if I’ll teach them values that overlap with Brahmin values. And if so, would that be bad?

So long as it doesn’t make my children look down on others. And so long as it doesn’t hinder others’ chances from moving up the social ladder.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/05/india-caste-us/

by Kris Mon May 28, 2012 7:31 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Sure my father disapproved of the caste system, but he also disapproved of his kids going into careers in business. Instead he guided my brother and me towards classic Brahmin fields, education, medicine, science.

And so, here I am, working as a journalist in the U.S, making my parents proud for picking a career that just happens to be Brahmin-like.

Now, I’ll never join a caste-based organization or even put my kids through any ceremony.

But, I wonder if I’ll teach them values that overlap with Brahmin values. And if so, would that be bad?

So long as it doesn’t make my children look down on others. And so long as it doesn’t hinder others’ chances from moving up the social ladder.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/05/india-caste-us/

>>>Boji,

Who the hell is having this angst and why? Raise your children with good values and forget all this BS. Life is complicated as it is. The article was strange about kids being not being aware of each others' castes and other assorted nonsense. Fill their head with this BS and identifying markers that have no meaning in this society or any cosmopolitan society, you are sure to make them socially stunted. As an alternate, think of this: make your kids confident by encouraging their interests, travel with them, teach them a foreign language or two- see how their personalities unfold.

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 7:51 pm

===> I just posted this after hearing this news item on NPR.

Of course, it does not make sense to raise kids here with caste feelings.

Tell that to the folks at Tamil Sangam in Washington DC who teach their kids to hate Brahmins.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon May 28, 2012 8:12 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Sure my father disapproved of the caste system, but he also disapproved of his kids going into careers in business. Instead he guided my brother and me towards classic Brahmin fields, education, medicine, science.

And so, here I am, working as a journalist in the U.S, making my parents proud for picking a career that just happens to be Brahmin-like.

Now, I’ll never join a caste-based organization or even put my kids through any ceremony.

But, I wonder if I’ll teach them values that overlap with Brahmin values. And if so, would that be bad?

So long as it doesn’t make my children look down on others. And so long as it doesn’t hinder others’ chances from moving up the social ladder.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/05/india-caste-us/

Parents have no influence on the 1/3rd factor - the kids environment and influence of others on them.

really... if the kids turn out exactly per parents wishes is that really a good thing? What is the guarantee that our plan and wish is 100% perfect?

So, today's (Memorial Day Special) Gyaan: No matter what you do the kids will not likely to turn out as you planned and wished. Give them tools to help make appropriate decisions in their lives, and leave it to them.

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 8:33 pm

Give them tools to help make appropriate decisions in their lives...

===> What exactly are those tools? Can you be more specific?
Is it logic or something else?

by confuzzled dude Mon May 28, 2012 9:30 pm

Kris wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:Sure my father disapproved of the caste system, but he also disapproved of his kids going into careers in business. Instead he guided my brother and me towards classic Brahmin fields, education, medicine, science.

And so, here I am, working as a journalist in the U.S, making my parents proud for picking a career that just happens to be Brahmin-like.

Now, I’ll never join a caste-based organization or even put my kids through any ceremony.

But, I wonder if I’ll teach them values that overlap with Brahmin values. And if so, would that be bad?

So long as it doesn’t make my children look down on others. And so long as it doesn’t hinder others’ chances from moving up the social ladder.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/05/india-caste-us/

>>>Boji,

Who the hell is having this angst and why? Raise your children with good values and forget all this BS. Life is complicated as it is. The article was strange about kids being not being aware of each others' castes and other assorted nonsense. Fill their head with this BS and identifying markers that have no meaning in this society or any cosmopolitan society, you are sure to make them socially stunted. As an alternate, think of this: make your kids confident by encouraging their interests, travel with them, teach them a foreign language or two- see how their personalities unfold.

exactly! What in the world are Brahmin fields, too much of stereotyping, dude seems to be suffering from serious insecurities.

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 9:39 pm

BTW there is a family in west mambalam in chennai which owns a barber shop.

by Kris Mon May 28, 2012 9:46 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> I just posted this after hearing this news item on NPR.

Of course, it does not make sense to raise kids here with caste feelings.

Tell that to the folks at Tamil Sangam in Washington DC who teach their kids to hate Brahmins.

>>>If what you are saying is true, the idiots who are teaching this are warped and in practical terms, this is also pointless. In a couple of years, those same kids will ask 'who or what is a
brahmin?' considering the surrounding society does not have constructs
to keep up this caste nonsense.The strangest thing here is you are dignifying this foolishness as though it has some serious import.

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 10:11 pm

The strangest thing here is you are dignifying this foolishness as though it has some serious import.

===> All I did was to post stuff on what is going on in the Indian community.

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 10:22 pm

Kris,

What do you think about Brahmins who bring their ABCD kids to the local temples to change their poonals on the Avani Avittam day?

Some of those folks, I mean the parents are the most Americanized and they will give a sermon about how caste should be abolished etc.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon May 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Kris wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> I just posted this after hearing this news item on NPR.

Of course, it does not make sense to raise kids here with caste feelings.

Tell that to the folks at Tamil Sangam in Washington DC who teach their kids to hate Brahmins.

>>>If what you are saying is true, the idiots who are teaching this are warped and in practical terms, this is also pointless. In a couple of years, those same kids will ask 'who or what is a brahmin?' considering the surrounding society does not have constructs
to keep up this caste nonsense.The strangest thing here is you are dignifying this foolishness as though it has some serious import.

The washington DC area had 2 tamil Sangams - one by Non-Brahmins and the other Brahmin+enlightened Non-brahmins (like Pillais, chettiars, etc) - even in THOSE days. It was really amazing to find that this caste politics has even resulted in different temples dominated by respective groups.

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 10:38 pm

those same kids will ask 'who or what is a brahmin?'

===> It is not different from Muslim kids in America asking their parents who is a Shia/Sunni or who is an Ahmadi etc.,

The similar thing with other religions, tribes/groups from Africa or Afghanistan or former Yugoslavia.. so on and so forth.

The world is what it is.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon May 28, 2012 10:54 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> I just posted this after hearing this news item on NPR.

Of course, it does not make sense to raise kids here with caste feelings.

would you raise kids in india with caste feelings?

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 11:10 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> I just posted this after hearing this news item on NPR.

Of course, it does not make sense to raise kids here with caste feelings.
would you raise kids in india with caste feelings?

===> With all the anti-brahmin propaganda plus caste quotas back in TN, caste certainly will enter into kid's consciousness.

Only thing I can do is to avoid bringing up caste or religion in any conversation at home.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon May 28, 2012 11:13 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> I just posted this after hearing this news item on NPR.

Of course, it does not make sense to raise kids here with caste feelings.
would you raise kids in india with caste feelings?

===>... Only thing I can do is to avoid bringing up caste or religion in any conversation at home.

would you?

by garam_kuta Mon May 28, 2012 11:27 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:those same kids will ask 'who or what is a brahmin?'

===> It is not different from Muslim kids in America asking their parents who is a Shia/Sunni or who is an Ahmadi etc.,

The similar thing with other religions, tribes/groups from Africa or Afghanistan or former Yugoslavia.. so on and so forth.

The world is what it is.

===> With all the anti-brahmin propaganda plus caste quotas back in TN, caste certainly will enter into kid's consciousness.

let me complete it for you -
The world is what it is; men who are nothing ,who allow themselves to become nothing have no place in it.
now, would you raise kids -(a) in india (b) here-with caste feelings?

by MulaiAzhagi Mon May 28, 2012 11:36 pm

===> Flim Flam

I am not sure what the word "would" in your question means.

If you are asking me whether I would avoid the topic of caste and religion with my kid when I live in India, the answer is yes.

Even when I grew up back home, there was hardly any topic involving caste and religion. We were surrounded by two Christian and a Muslim families.

I avoid caste, race, nationality and religion in any conversation with my kid.
My kid has friends from different backgrounds including a few from Pakistan. There is no need to influence the child and thus affect the relationship with other kids.

The reason being what I think of things like religion, race, caste may change. I should not be passing it on to my kid. Let he or she form her own opinion.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue May 29, 2012 12:19 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> Flim Flam
If you are asking me whether I would avoid the topic of caste and religion with my kid when I live in India, the answer is yes.

i was. thank you for the answer.

by Kris Tue May 29, 2012 1:05 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:Kris,

What do you think about Brahmins who bring their ABCD kids to the local temples to change their poonals on the Avani Avittam day?

Some of those folks, I mean the parents are the most Americanized and they will give a sermon about how caste should be abolished etc.

>>>MA,

Different strokes for different folks as long as they keep it in their personal sphere. There need be no contradiction between this and the idea that caste needs to be abolished, although I have no idea why this issue would be looming large in anyone's mind in this country or what relevance it has in their lives. Also- this poonal business may be a last hurrah in many of their minds considering the changes swirling about them.

by Kris Tue May 29, 2012 4:15 am

garam_kuta wrote:

let me complete it for you -
The world is what it is; men who are nothing ,who allow themselves to become nothing have no place in it.
now, would you raise kids -(a) in india (b) here-with caste feelings?

>>>>Naipaul brilliant as always... this is the idea I was trying to express. The obsessions, the blindness to possibilities in an open society and the reversal to fossilized identities for no purpose other than an artificial security. There is another danger here. A mindset steeped in a hierarchical world view is more likely to accept another looking down on it, just as it is comfortable placing someone else lower on the totem pole.

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