NY times story on Guj riot trials

by Kris Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:45 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/world/asia/gujarat-riot-trials-may-alter-indias-cycle-of-violence.html?pagewanted=all

by Idéfix Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:19 am

Good article, thanks for posting. I am glad that technology is being used to bring to book the perpetrators of one of the worst events in the recent history of India.

It is already ten years since this happened, but I still remember vividly a travel experience when I was going to Europe from India. I met an upper-middle-class Gujarati businessman on my flight in 2002, and he gladly spoke of the killing of Muslims in Ahmedabad just because my name sounded like a Hindu name to him. I was horrified by the nonchalance with which he justified murder, rape and loot. I hope these prosecutions deter such rioting in future around the country.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:12 am

thanks for posting this. modi is a very divisive man in my family. discussions about him turn highly emotional. i am debating whether to share this article with the older generation.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:thanks for posting this. modi is a very divisive man in my family. discussions about him turn highly emotional. i am debating whether to share this article with the older generation.

what are the arguments in favour of modi?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:17 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:thanks for posting this. modi is a very divisive man in my family. discussions about him turn highly emotional. i am debating whether to share this article with the older generation.
what are the arguments in favour of modi?

i am paraphrasing the older generation here, but mostly they say that the allegations made against him are just that, allegations; and secondly they insist that he has done very well for the economy of gujarat, worthy of emulation. they refuse to take the godhra charges seriously and dismiss them as something conjured up by a partisan lefty press out to get a successful BJP leader.

by Petrichor Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:20 pm

If a CD containing all cellphone records presumably with triangulating lat/lon coordinates and call times is indeed available since 2004 (hopefully also covering Godhra area), it is puzzling that no analysis has been published and no one is screaming from the dargah towers.

by MulaiAzhagi Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:20 pm

The riots began on Feb. 27, 2002, when a train filled with Hindu pilgrims who had just visited a disputed shrine rolled into Godhra, a small city in eastern Gujarat, and was attacked by a Muslim mob. A fire started, and at least 58 Hindu pilgrims burned to death. Their charred bodies were brought to Ahmedabad, Gujarat’s largest city, and laid out in public, an act that all but guaranteed more violence. Huge mobs gathered to view the bodies.

===> A fire started?

On its own?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:31 pm

atcg wrote:If a CD containing all cellphone records presumably with triangulating lat/lon coordinates and call times is indeed available since 2004 (hopefully also covering Godhra area), it is puzzling that no analysis has been published and no one is screaming from the dargah towers.

the judiciary in india moves at a glacial pace. actually, scratch that. given today's global warming conditions, even slower than glacial pace.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:thanks for posting this. modi is a very divisive man in my family. discussions about him turn highly emotional. i am debating whether to share this article with the older generation.
what are the arguments in favour of modi?

i am paraphrasing the older generation here, but mostly they say that the allegations made against him are just that, allegations; and secondly they insist that he has done very well for the economy of gujarat, worthy of emulation. they refuse to take the godhra charges seriously and dismiss them as something conjured up by a partisan lefty press out to get a successful BJP leader.

and underneath the rational sounding arguments i am sorry to say, there might also be an element of an eye for an eye sentiment. and when that enters the discussion, the distinctions of modi not merely being a hindu but also an elected top official of the state get lost in the furor.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:36 pm

MulaiAzhagi wrote:The riots began on Feb. 27, 2002, when a train filled with Hindu pilgrims who had just visited a disputed shrine rolled into Godhra, a small city in eastern Gujarat, and was attacked by a Muslim mob. A fire started, and at least 58 Hindu pilgrims burned to death. Their charred bodies were brought to Ahmedabad, Gujarat’s largest city, and laid out in public, an act that all but guaranteed more violence. Huge mobs gathered to view the bodies.

===> A fire started?

On its own?

see what i mean?

by Petrichor Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
atcg wrote:If a CD containing all cellphone records presumably with triangulating lat/lon coordinates and call times is indeed available since 2004 (hopefully also covering Godhra area), it is puzzling that no analysis has been published and no one is screaming from the dargah towers.

the judiciary in india moves at a glacial pace. actually, scratch that. given today's global warming conditions, even slower than glacial pace.

Forget the judiciary, where are the investigative journalists, 'secular' Congress-afficianados that have gotten hold of the CD?

by Petrichor Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:54 pm

In the Delhi riots there were clearly identified Congress goons that were named and shamed fairly in short order.

by Idéfix Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:thanks for posting this. modi is a very divisive man in my family. discussions about him turn highly emotional. i am debating whether to share this article with the older generation.
what are the arguments in favour of modi?

i am paraphrasing the older generation here, but mostly they say that the allegations made against him are just that, allegations; and secondly they insist that he has done very well for the economy of gujarat, worthy of emulation. they refuse to take the godhra charges seriously and dismiss them as something conjured up by a partisan lefty press out to get a successful BJP leader.

and underneath the rational sounding arguments i am sorry to say, there might also be an element of an eye for an eye sentiment. and when that enters the discussion, the distinctions of modi not merely being a hindu but also an elected top official of the state get lost in the furor.

All these arguments should be familiar to CHers, as they have been advanced in past discussions on this topic. We lost many of the people who made those arguments when we moved from old CH, but we still got Uppili.

by Idéfix Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:58 pm

atcg wrote:In the Delhi riots there were clearly identified Congress goons that were named and shamed fairly in short order.

Actually the courts have moved slower in that matter... if I remember right, some of the cases are still pending in court 28 years later. And far fewer convictions too, I imagine.

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