The voter fraud fraud

There was that Pennsylvania GOP legislator who gleefully boasted to supporters, "voter ID laws, which will deliver the state of PA to Romney, done!" Such rare moments of candor apart, Republicans generally justify voter ID laws citing "voter fraud." A new study finds that those claims are not truth-based. Voter impersonation on election day -- which is what voter ID laws are designed to prevent -- is extremely rare. The study finds just 10 cases of alleged voter impersonation since 2000 across the United States.

The News21 report is based on a national public-records search in which reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of alleged fraudulent activity - including registration fraud; absentee-ballot fraud; vote buying; false election counts; campaign fraud; the casting of ballots by ineligible voters, such as felons and noncitizens; double voting; and voter impersonation.

The analysis found that there is more alleged fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than in any of the other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of alleged absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases involving registration fraud. Requiring voters to show identification at the polls - the crux of most of the new legislation - would not have prevented those cases.

The case has been made repeatedly by the Republican National Lawyers Association. Part of the group's mission is advancing "open, fair and honest elections," and it has compiled a list of about 375 election fraud cases, based mostly on news reports.

News21 examined those cases and found that 77 were alleged fraud by voters. Of those, News21 could verify that 33 resulted in convictions or guilty pleas. The analysis shows no cases of voter impersonation fraud.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Voter-fraud-findings-question-ID-law-logic-3783305.php#ixzz23P8dABA3

These laws are back-door poll taxes, attempts to disenfranchise poor voters.

Carvaka,

Speaking of "real" election fraud..We went to watch the movie "The Campaign" late Sat. Night..just to watch something funny and silly.

It certainly did not disappoint..was a funny political satire (too real at times) about the upcoming elections! For Southern audiences..since the movie is set in North Carolina and does mention some touchy(literally) subjects, sensitive in the South, the overcrowded theater was roaring with laughter, except for the last 20 mins in a fast moving movie.

It's R rated for the crude language, which made me quite uncomfortable at times, not to mention, the frequent mentioning of the Lord's name (but how what would American politics be without bringing up the Lord and Religion!) but, overlooking that.. for political junkies, has some really funny stuff.

*Was watching Romney-Ryan campaigning in NC yesterday..at some points was like watching the movie..except with two "real" very and very handsome heroes!

Thought this movie may interest you!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-8-2012/wizards-of-i-d-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoYWgGY4ADY

(1:13 to 1:20)

panini press wrote:There was that Pennsylvania GOP legislator who gleefully boasted to supporters, "voter ID laws, which will deliver the state of PA to Romney, done!" Such rare moments of candor apart, Republicans generally justify voter ID laws citing "voter fraud." A new study finds that those claims are not truth-based. Voter impersonation on election day -- which is what voter ID laws are designed to prevent -- is extremely rare. The study finds just 10 cases of alleged voter impersonation since 2000 across the United States.

The News21 report is based on a national public-records search in which reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of alleged fraudulent activity - including registration fraud; absentee-ballot fraud; vote buying; false election counts; campaign fraud; the casting of ballots by ineligible voters, such as felons and noncitizens; double voting; and voter impersonation.

The analysis found that there is more alleged fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than in any of the other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of alleged absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases involving registration fraud. Requiring voters to show identification at the polls - the crux of most of the new legislation - would not have prevented those cases.

The case has been made repeatedly by the Republican National Lawyers Association. Part of the group's mission is advancing "open, fair and honest elections," and it has compiled a list of about 375 election fraud cases, based mostly on news reports.

News21 examined those cases and found that 77 were alleged fraud by voters. Of those, News21 could verify that 33 resulted in convictions or guilty pleas. The analysis shows no cases of voter impersonation fraud.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Voter-fraud-findings-question-ID-law-logic-3783305.php#ixzz23P8dABA3

These laws are back-door poll taxes, attempts to disenfranchise poor voters.

I don't know the details of the US laws. India has Voter Id to prevent abuses in electoral system. It has worked well over the last few elections. (Of course we are using EVMs which I don't believe in). I voted after a long time. Process is pretty smooth. Everyone who is eligible to vote and has registered previously is given a booth slip a few days before the elections with his/her photo on the slip itself. No chance for voter impersonation. Poor people vote in bulk in Indian elecfions. Why do you think voter ids in US are different than the ones in India?.

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:Why do you think voter ids in US are different than the ones in India?.

Here are some ways the two systems are different.

1. In the US, these new laws require the use of existing forms of identification, while India had a large-scale program to issue new voter IDs to all voters regardless of economic status. The problem with existing forms of identification is that about 10% of all voters do not have any form of state-issued photo identification. Guess which income group that 10% is mostly comprised of. If the said US states had conducted extensive drives among all people to get new voter IDs, middle class and rich voters would be as likely to not have the IDs by November as poor people are. But because driver's license is the most common ID, and those who drive cars -- and are in the middle class or up -- have them while the carless don't, that is a good proxy for poverty.

2. Voter impersonation fraud is a bigger problem in India than it is in the US. The study I cited proves the rarity of voter impersonation in the US. In India, it is a common experience for many middle class people that by the time they get to the polling place, their vote has already been cast for them.

3. Poor people are a high fraction of India's population, while they are not in the US. So even if half of the poor people in India are adversely affected by voter ID requirement, the turnout of poor people as a whole will be large enough for the poor to impact the election outcome. In the US, if you managed to keep the poor people at work / home on election day, that can tilt the election outcome. This means that even after voter ID laws, Indian pols need to appeal to the poor, while disenfranchising the poor makes it possible for Romney to say, "I am not concerned about the very poor."

4. There is no absentee balloting in the India. In the US, absentee ballots are common. And fraud is much more common among absentee ballots, as the study I cited shows. So if you are worried about voter fraud in India, you should go after voter ID there, but if you are worried about voter fraud in the US, you should go after absentee ballot fraud. But why are they not going after it? Well, because Republican voters use absentee ballots more than Democratic voters do!

Maria S wrote:Carvaka,

Speaking of "real" election fraud..We went to watch the movie "The Campaign" late Sat. Night..just to watch something funny and silly.

It certainly did not disappoint..was a funny political satire (too real at times) about the upcoming elections! For Southern audiences..since the movie is set in North Carolina and does mention some touchy(literally) subjects, sensitive in the South, the overcrowded theater was roaring with laughter, except for the last 20 mins in a fast moving movie.

It's R rated for the crude language, which made me quite uncomfortable at times, not to mention, the frequent mentioning of the Lord's name (but how what would American politics be without bringing up the Lord and Religion!) but, overlooking that.. for political junkies, has some really funny stuff.

*Was watching Romney-Ryan campaigning in NC yesterday..at some points was like watching the movie..except with two "real" very and very handsome heroes!

Thought this movie may interest you!

Sounds like fun -- will watch it next weekend!

panini press wrote:

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:Why do you think voter ids in US are different than the ones in India?.

Here are some ways the two systems are different.

1. In the US, these new laws require the use of existing forms of identification, while India had a large-scale program to issue new voter IDs to all voters regardless of economic status. The problem with existing forms of identification is that about 10% of all voters do not have any form of state-issued photo identification. Guess which income group that 10% is mostly comprised of. If the said US states had conducted extensive drives among all people to get new voter IDs, middle class and rich voters would be as likely to not have the IDs by November as poor people are. But because driver's license is the most common ID, and those who drive cars -- and are in the middle class or up -- have them while the carless don't, that is a good proxy for poverty.

2. Voter impersonation fraud is a bigger problem in India than it is in the US. The study I cited proves the rarity of voter impersonation in the US. In India, it is a common experience for many middle class people that by the time they get to the polling place, their vote has already been cast for them.

3. Poor people are a high fraction of India's population, while they are not in the US. So even if half of the poor people in India are adversely affected by voter ID requirement, the turnout of poor people as a whole will be large enough for the poor to impact the election outcome. In the US, if you managed to keep the poor people at work / home on election day, that can tilt the election outcome. This means that even after voter ID laws, Indian pols need to appeal to the poor, while disenfranchising the poor makes it possible for Romney to say, "I am not concerned about the very poor."

4. There is no absentee balloting in the India. In the US, absentee ballots are common. And fraud is much more common among absentee ballots, as the study I cited shows. So if you are worried about voter fraud in India, you should go after voter ID there, but if you are worried about voter fraud in the US, you should go after absentee ballot fraud. But why are they not going after it? Well, because Republican voters use absentee ballots more than Democratic voters do!

So organizing a large scale program to issue voter IDs to all US citizens should take care of your concerns, right. That seems like the direction that US will take.

PS: this is a non-problem in the US. watch the way jon stewart makes fun of it in the clip i posted.

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:So organizing a large scale program to issue voter IDs to all US citizens should take care of your concerns, right. That seems like the direction that US will take.

Why does it seem that way to you? Voting laws in the US are strictly state by state. None of the states that passed a voter ID law require citizens to acquire a specialized voter ID. Every one of them is based on pre-existing state-issued IDs like driver's licenses. And poor people make up the overwhelming majority of the population that lacks those IDs.

The PA voter suppression law that was designed to deliver the state to Mitt Romney has been blocked from taking effect this election.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444004704578032211743100582.html