delhi is awake - huge protests against rape

by truthbetold Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:25 am

Delhites finally woke up from their chalta hai, what can i do, women should not wear bold dresses kind of slumber . Young men and women are gathering and protesting. There is no demand from them that can be granted by govt. . They just want to vent. That is just fine. Politicos may learn a lesson or two from this tragedy and people's reaction to that tragedy.

I have to apologize to the people of delhi. I retract my statement of inaction against them. They started slowly but are now making a strong statement.

The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:35 am

have they started protesting against patriarchal societal attitudes that undergird these types of violence against women yet?

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:48 am

http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/woman-drugged-gang-raped-in-delhi-308544

by Rishi Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:57 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:have they started protesting against patriarchal societal attitudes that undergird these types of violence against women yet?

It is like a group of people holding a candle light vigil and going around shouting 'stop the violence.'

Too abstract.

Protests are only effective if you demand a specific kind of legislation to be enacted and enforced or scrapped.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:59 am

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:have they started protesting against patriarchal societal attitudes that undergird these types of violence against women yet?

It is like a group of people holding a candle light vigil and going around shouting 'stop the violence.'

Too abstract.

Protests are only effective if you demand a specific kind of legislation to be enacted and enforced or scrapped.

no legislation can stop men debasing women if there is cultural acceptance of such behavior. nothing abstract about that.

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:05 am

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/KaranThapar/Pointing-the-finger/Article1-979566.aspx

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:07 am

Rashmun wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/KaranThapar/Pointing-the-finger/Article1-979566.aspx

very nice. thanks for posting.

Saturday’s protestors, courageously facing teargas and water-cannons, should have first ventilated their anger on Indian men. When you hear of elderly women of 80, or baby girls of 3, who have been raped you have to ask: have Indian men become barbarians?

by southindian Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:13 am

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:have they started protesting against patriarchal societal attitudes that undergird these types of violence against women yet?

It is like a group of people holding a candle light vigil and going around shouting 'stop the violence.'

Too abstract.

Protests are only effective if you demand a specific kind of legislation to be enacted and enforced or scrapped.

Rishi, it's everywhere is SouthIndia as well and some are right. Patriarchal societies and lack of respect for women in SouthIndia/NorthIndia is making all India unsafe for women.

Here's something that happened in Tamil Nadu after the Delhi incident.

Girl murdered after rape bid in T.N. village. This after Delhi incident.

I'm sure NRI parents of 14, 17 year old girls visiting parts on Tamil Nadu will not feel safe traveling in cities after rise of rape incidents. Rape against children in TN have doubled in last 5 years.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:16 am

southindian wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:have they started protesting against patriarchal societal attitudes that undergird these types of violence against women yet?

It is like a group of people holding a candle light vigil and going around shouting 'stop the violence.'

Too abstract.

Protests are only effective if you demand a specific kind of legislation to be enacted and enforced or scrapped.

Rishi, it's everywhere is SouthIndia as well and some are right. Patriarchal societies and lack of respect for women in SouthIndia/NorthIndia is making all India unsafe for women.

Here's something that happened in Tamil Nadu after the Delhi incident.

Girl murdered after rape bid in T.N. village. This after Delhi incident.

I'm sure NRI parents of 14, 17 year old girls visiting parts on Tamil Nadu will not feel save traveling in cities after rise of rape incidents. Rape against children in TN have doubled in last 5 years.

if it assuages your shame to keep saying this from time to time, it's ok. we have to address problems everywhere. but if you are going to solve world poverty, you start in ethiopia, not inner city detroit.

by southindian Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

That's bad analogy Max. Hungry people in Detroit are still hungry and they don't care if Ethiopia is as well.

A rape is a rape is a rape and ask those raped girls and small children in Tamil Nadu whether its any different.

You are reading that Karan Thapar link. Did you get the point that all mothers whether in Tamil Nadu. Detroit or Delhi need to teach their sons to respect women.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 am

southindian wrote:That's bad analogy Max. Hungry people in Detroit are still hungry and they don't care if Ethiopia is as well.

A rape is a rape is a rape and ask those raped girls and small children in Tamil Nadu whether its any different.

You are reading that Karan Thapar link. Did you get the point that all mothers whether in Tamil Nadu. Detroit or Delhi need to teach their sons to respect women.

i think it's an excellent analogy (aside: nobody in detroit is hungry. there are lots of poor people, but not hungry. anyway tangential).

but let me put it this way. on an individual level we all need to make sure we protect children. but if you are going to ask the government to do something about it, shouldn't you expect they start where the problem is most acute? why is this simple point lost in the rush to spread the blame and share it equally?

by southindian Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:03 am

You missed the point. Again. If your child is hungry, do you first make sure if people in Ethiopia are fed?

This is NOT a government problem in NorthIndia/SouthIndia but a household issue everywhere in India. Agreeing with Karan Thapar, this is a parent-son discussion issue in all of India and I would be more concerned about doubling of child rape cases in Tamil Nadu than in Delhi, because Delhi government fix of increased security is not going to work for TN.

If rape incidents continue to rise in Tamil Nadu as in Delhi then this IS equal blame share as well.

What's going on in Chennai and Delhi homes in today's India making rape incidents grow exponentially everywhere?

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:42 am

Tamil girls/women are not raped, molested or eve-teased. Such things never ever happen in TN. TN is the safest haven in India because Tamil men are the most decent of all and its society is matriarchal which gives all the power and respect to women. All the women and child protection laws are needed only for ppl in delhi, north india and the rest of india, not to tamils.

by Rekz Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:10 pm

My heart goes out to the guy who was with her too...
His agony must be equal to what the girl is going through...
After all, not all men are rapist...

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:13 pm

truthbetold wrote: The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Bwahahaha..very true. Half the women protesting there will have their bottoms pinched if they are not vigilant in all that chaos.

by Rekz Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:21 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote: The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Bwahahaha..very true. Half the women protesting there will have their bottoms pinched if they are not vigilant in all that chaos.

Yes, if they want to be axed.

by southindian Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:57 pm

kinnera wrote:Tamil girls/women are not raped, molested or eve-teased. Such things never ever happen in TN. TN is the safest haven in India because Tamil men are the most decent of all and its society is matriarchal which gives all the power and respect to women. All the women and child protection laws are needed only for ppl in delhi, north india and the rest of india, not to tamils.

Only if people stop living with a cocooned mindset they would stop saying 'them bad' and look around. Wink

I think, you got the point.

by Kumarg Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:58 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote: why is this simple point lost in the rush to spread the blame and share it equally?

You are the only one so far in my experience who us playing the 'spreading the blame' part, when instead you should be debating on how this can be fixed.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Max,
Why the emphasis on delhi vs tn? At present people are riveted to Delhi. So it should be Delhi focused. That does not increase or diminish the culpability of tn or ap men.
Si,
While every family should teach their young man to behave, the need for women of Delhi is a present need. Today's need. If politicos and police fail to do that, they should be thrown out.
Kumar,
Exactly. Why splinter energy on useless distractions instead of looking for a solution.
Merlot,
As usual your bottom pinching suggestion is similar to seeking sexual pleasure from a sister hug. You have no decency.

by Hellsangel Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Il Professore wears blinders when it comes to North India and TN. You see, he has to prove himself a worthy successor to the old dog.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:49 pm

truthbetold wrote:Max,
Why the emphasis on delhi vs tn? At present people are riveted to Delhi. So it should be Delhi focused. That does not increase or diminish the culpability of tn or ap men.
Si,
While every family should teach their young man to behave, the need for women of Delhi is a present need. Today's need. If politicos and police fail to do that, they should be thrown out.
Kumar,
Exactly. Why splinter energy on useless distractions instead of looking for a solution.
Merlot,
As usual your bottom pinching suggestion is similar to seeking sexual pleasure from a sister hug. You have no decency.

we are perfectly ok with discussing differences between republicans and democrats on cultural issues, between americans and europeans, between americans and japanese, but not between northindians and southern indians. it gets everybody's dander up! i NEVER said TN is a paradise or that it has no problems. as someone else said earlier in this thread, it is a matter of degree. i am not close to the public transport situation in india any longer, but why is it that whenever such spectacularly ugly incidents are reported in the western press it is always from haryana, punjab and delhi? why? do you believe that the stories bittu used to narrate at sulekha about the behavior he indulged in as a youth have nothing to do with these incidents? if you think that, you must be deluded.

tamilian men are not perfect, but for the most part (at least when i used the public transport system), ignore the women on the buses. TN is no cradle of liberalism between the sexes, in fact i'd go so far as to say that they are somewhat traditional (which is different from conservative IMO), the sexes are separated in the public buses, and men and women generally avert their eyes (note i said generally, not always). generations of women in my family have used the public transport in chennai without incident (and for the really slow here, i'll also point out that that does not mean nothing ever happens; just that it is statistically less likely). some of these same women have encountered loutish behavior in delhi buses when they lived there.

and if it hurts your sensibilities to hear that, then you have to toughen up. i don't make the statistics. the people who commit the crime do. i merely point it out. i am sorry it makes you uncomfortable. your anger is better served if it is directed at the culture that enables this behavior. it is pointless to direct it at me.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:01 pm

Hellsangel wrote:Il Professore wears blinders when it comes to North India and TN. You see, he has to prove himself a worthy successor to the old dog.

oh quit it man. this must be getting old even for you.

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:23 pm

http://www.countercurrents.org/gender-jacob230604.htm

by truthbetold Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:54 pm

Max,
you may be confusing some other posts as mine. What anger? My only point is injecting the delhi vs tn discussion into this discussion is quite tangential and unnecessary.

by southindian Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:14 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max,
Why the emphasis on delhi vs tn? At present people are riveted to Delhi. So it should be Delhi focused. That does not increase or diminish the culpability of tn or ap men.
Si,
While every family should teach their young man to behave, the need for women of Delhi is a present need. Today's need. If politicos and police fail to do that, they should be thrown out.
Kumar,
Exactly. Why splinter energy on useless distractions instead of looking for a solution.
Merlot,
As usual your bottom pinching suggestion is similar to seeking sexual pleasure from a sister hug. You have no decency.

we are perfectly ok with discussing differences between republicans and democrats on cultural issues, between americans and europeans, between americans and japanese, but not between northindians and southern indians. it gets everybody's dander up! i NEVER said TN is a paradise or that it has no problems. as someone else said earlier in this thread, it is a matter of degree. i am not close to the public transport situation in india any longer, but why is it that whenever such spectacularly ugly incidents are reported in the western press it is always from haryana, punjab and delhi? why? do you believe that the stories bittu used to narrate at sulekha about the behavior he indulged in as a youth have nothing to do with these incidents? if you think that, you must be deluded.

tamilian men are not perfect, but for the most part (at least when i used the public transport system), ignore the women on the buses. TN is no cradle of liberalism between the sexes, in fact i'd go so far as to say that they are somewhat traditional (which is different from conservative IMO), the sexes are separated in the public buses, and men and women generally avert their eyes (note i said generally, not always). generations of women in my family have used the public transport in chennai without incident (and for the really slow here, i'll also point out that that does not mean nothing ever happens; just that it is statistically less likely). some of these same women have encountered loutish behavior in delhi buses when they lived there.

and if it hurts your sensibilities to hear that, then you have to toughen up. i don't make the statistics. the people who commit the crime do. i merely point it out. i am sorry it makes you uncomfortable. your anger is better served if it is directed at the culture that enables this behavior. it is pointless to direct it at me.

This is the first time I have seen a southindian accepting shortcomings in TN culture, as in a Kübler-Ross model. This step 5 is a welcome change from someone who was always in denial.

Just this afternoon, I was listening to the NRA chief also quoting statistics in his argument and I pity him because bringing in statistics is last resort when there's no argument to carry a sensitive discussion. He will always be a loser.

I'm not happy to see any part of India (southindia or northindia) in news for crimes against women, but the 'shokkah' snide showed more about people pretending to have a soft side.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:38 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

we are perfectly ok with discussing differences between republicans and democrats on cultural issues, between americans and europeans, between americans and japanese, but not between northindians and southern indians.

I vehemently disagree, here on Such, we've a rich history of long-winded discussions/fights on CONartists & Chaddis, Dvaita-Advaita, Charvakas & Sankhya philosophies, Akbar-Ashoka and most recently about Aurangzeb vs Nizam's generosity. You are treading on dangerous ground here, be mindful of what you're asking for Smile

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:but why is it that whenever such spectacularly ugly incidents are reported in the western press it is always from haryana, punjab and delhi? why?

may be folks from other parts of India need to grow a spine, and actually report about rape/abuse incidents.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:44 pm

Cd,
interesting to see a long winded discussion on growing spine.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:48 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd,
interesting to see a long winded discussion on growing spine.

I'm confused, as usual Smile

by bw Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:22 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Max,
Why the emphasis on delhi vs tn? At present people are riveted to Delhi. So it should be Delhi focused. That does not increase or diminish the culpability of tn or ap men.
Si,
While every family should teach their young man to behave, the need for women of Delhi is a present need. Today's need. If politicos and police fail to do that, they should be thrown out.
Kumar,
Exactly. Why splinter energy on useless distractions instead of looking for a solution.
Merlot,
As usual your bottom pinching suggestion is similar to seeking sexual pleasure from a sister hug. You have no decency.

we are perfectly ok with discussing differences between republicans and democrats on cultural issues, between americans and europeans, between americans and japanese, but not between northindians and southern indians. it gets everybody's dander up! i NEVER said TN is a paradise or that it has no problems. as someone else said earlier in this thread, it is a matter of degree. i am not close to the public transport situation in india any longer, but why is it that whenever such spectacularly ugly incidents are reported in the western press it is always from haryana, punjab and delhi? why? do you believe that the stories bittu used to narrate at sulekha about the behavior he indulged in as a youth have nothing to do with these incidents? if you think that, you must be deluded.

tamilian men are not perfect, but for the most part (at least when i used the public transport system), ignore the women on the buses. TN is no cradle of liberalism between the sexes, in fact i'd go so far as to say that they are somewhat traditional (which is different from conservative IMO), the sexes are separated in the public buses, and men and women generally avert their eyes (note i said generally, not always). generations of women in my family have used the public transport in chennai without incident (and for the really slow here, i'll also point out that that does not mean nothing ever happens; just that it is statistically less likely). some of these same women have encountered loutish behavior in delhi buses when they lived there.

and if it hurts your sensibilities to hear that, then you have to toughen up. i don't make the statistics. the people who commit the crime do. i merely point it out. i am sorry it makes you uncomfortable. your anger is better served if it is directed at the culture that enables this behavior. it is pointless to direct it at me.

making (derogatory) sweeping statements about another community's 'culture' reeks of tastelessness. by making such remarks, you are indirectly and wrongly accusing scores of innocent people who aren't rapists or misogynists of the same vile deeds just because they happen to be born in a certain culture.

the crime and rape rates among the blacks in the US are significantly higher than that among the whites. are we to conclude that as a "culture", theirs is one dictated by poor values and morals? would it be considered appropriate to say such a thing without being called a bigot?

no, this is not the same as discussing the differences in political ideology.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:02 pm

bw wrote:

making (derogatory) sweeping statements about another community's 'culture' reeks of tastelessness. by making such remarks, you are indirectly and wrongly accusing scores of innocent people who aren't rapists or misogynists of the same vile deeds just because they happen to be born in a certain culture.

the crime and rape rates among the blacks in the US are significantly higher than that among the whites. are we to conclude that as a "culture", theirs is one dictated by poor values and morals? would it be considered appropriate to say such a thing without being called a bigot?

no, this is not the same as discussing the differences in political ideology.

you cited a study recently in which an attempt was made by the author to explain a correlation between violence in civilian society to its war-making tendencies and seemed perfectly at home with the idea that americans are a violent people because they are a war-making people. i am sure there are plenty of americans who want nothing to do with war or violence. why this sudden change of mind when the same methods are applied to a different problem?

to suggest that haryanavis, punjabis, and delhiites have a cultural problem with debasing women does not imply that every single haryanavi, punjabi, and delhiite is guilty of debasing women.

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:16 pm

Rashmun wrote:http://www.countercurrents.org/gender-jacob230604.htm

Max, JM: please share your views on the article at the link.

by bw Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:20 pm

i think there is a huge difference between studying causes that may foster an acceptance of violence especially when it happens far away, possibly leading to some misguided individuals taking on the role of "good guys" and going on a rampage AND making sweeping statement about a certain culture saying it encourages raping and ill-treatment of women. the violence accepting culture is largely nurtured by the government policies, media and movies. to what causes do you attribute the desire to rape and debase women?

if i say that blacks are rapists culturally because the statistics show that they commit more rapes than the whites, that would be similar to the kind of accusation you make.

if there is a similar study that shows why north indian men are more likely to be rapists, please do point me towards it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:31 pm

bw wrote: to what causes do you attribute the desire to rape and debase women?

i attribute it to the same value system that has resulted in desperately skewed sex ratios in many indian states. rank ordered, amongst the indian states and major population centers the ones with the lowest ratios are, chadigarh, delhi, and haryana. i attribute it to the same value system that results in high rates of female infanticide in second pregnancies especially in cases where the first born is a female.

http://news.oneindia.in/feature/2012/haryana-skewed-sex-ratio-and-the-politics-of-rape-1083217.html

n 2011, a total of 733 rape cases were registered in Haryana. In the first six months of this year, 367 rape cases were reported. Experts say the rise in rape cases in Haryana is nothing but a clear indication of skewed sex ratio in the state. The National Commission for Protection of Child Rights (NCPCR) said that the spate of rapes in Haryana is a reflection of the adverse sex ratio in the state as well as the way females are treated in society. The Commission has demanded severe punishment for the rapists. "Gender discrimination and caste discrimination is reflected in the adverse sex ratio in Haryana. It is reflected in the way girls are treated," Shanta Sinha, NCPCR chairperson, told a TV channel.

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:37 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote: to what causes do you attribute the desire to rape and debase women?

i attribute it to the same value system that has resulted in desperately skewed sex ratios in many indian states. rank ordered, amongst the indian states and major population centers the ones with the lowest ratios are, chadigarh, delhi, and haryana. i attribute it to the same value system that results in high rates of female infanticide in second pregnancies especially in cases where the first born is a female.

With respect to sex ratio it makes more sense to do a district by district rather tha a state by state comparison. When we do this we find that certain desticts in TN like Salem and Dharmapuri have among the lowest sex ratios in the country.

I agree with Max that more problematic areas need greater priority when tackling social problems. On the question of sex ratio, Salem, Dharmapuri and other districts across India with the lowest sex ratio should be given greater priority when tackling this problem.

by Guest Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:51 pm

my experience with most bigots that I have known, they get a huge betrayal from their own kind, and that's the only chance that they will change their opinion.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:00 am

rashmun, i agree finer-grained data is better.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:33 am

truthbetold wrote:Merlot,
As usual your bottom pinching suggestion is similar to seeking sexual pleasure from a sister hug. You have no decency.

TBT, I realize that my attempt to deflate your pompous hailing of angry crowds demanding castration of the arrested rapists as some grand celebration of democracy has gone way over your head. So never mind. Keep up with the cheerleading and please don't try to strain yourself to look past the angry sloganeering.

by Petrichor Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:29 am

Rashmun wrote:
I agree with Max that more problematic areas need greater priority when tackling social problems. On the question of sex ratio, Salem, Dharmapuri and other districts across India with the lowest sex ratio should be given greater priority when tackling this problem.

1. What is considered *low* sex ratio?
2. Salem and Dharmapuri have 930 and 925 (females) per 1000 males.
3. Haryana as a whole is 842. Uttar Pradesh (your favorite) is 911.
4. Meerut at 863 and Baghpet at 845 look like good candidates for intervention.

In fact, taking a look at some of the lowest it looks like these are the districts that need intervention. See any Tamil names there?

19 Sangrur 20.6 16.9 17.8 835 810 810
7 Pithoragarh 24.5 19.7 19.4 812 815 815
20 Barnala* NA 16.9 xx 847 822 822
27 Beed 23.5 22.3 5.2 801 823 823
1 Gurdaspur 20.6 16.1 21.6 824 829 829
16 Tarn Taran* NA 18.4 xxx 819 831 831
5 Jhunjhunu 28.2 20.8 26.2 831 833 833
13 Dibang Valley 29.3 20.4 30.2 831 834 834
13 Mansa 21.9 16.9 22.8 831 836 836
15 Amritsar 21.3 16.8 21.0 824 837 837
10 Muktsar 20.8 17.9 13.8 830 841 841
8 Baghpat 27.5 22.8 17.0 837 845 845
14 Patiala 19.6 17.3 11.9 835 846 846
13 Sikar 29.5 22.3 24.3 841 846 846
Ajit Singh Nagar* NA 18.1 xx 842 850 850
16 Nayagarh 20.9 17.1 18.1 851 854 854
Punjab 20.1 16.7 17.0 846 854 854
9 Firozpur 23.3 18.9 18.9 846 854 854
11 Faridkot 19.5 16.8 13.9 851 855 855
26 Ahmadnagar 21.8 19.4 10.9 839 857 857
6 Fatehgarh Sahib 19.2 15.8 17.7 843 857 857
10 Gautam Buddha Nagar 31.1 25.8 17.1 845 858 858
15 Agra 28.3 24.3 14.1 835 858 858
1 Ganganagar 27.1 20.0 26.4 854 859 859
12 Bathinda 19.6 16.8 14.2 854 860 860

by truthbetold Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:49 am

Merlot,
Your continued failure to make valid arguments is now well established.
You have no clue on issues of importance to indian people. On each of the recent issues you picked the losing side of the arguments.
Ex: terrorism - you sided with your muslim brothers right to bomb indian people
anti terrorism - you argued ex home minister shiv raj patil was doing a great job till sonia decided to kick the lap dog out to get some action in the form pc chidambaram.
More examples later.
Your first step is to deny widely understood ineffectiveness of govt. Then refuse to provide any supporting evidence.
When public gets restive and protests, you call them angry mobs who ask for foolish things such preventive work to stop terrorism.
When govt realizes the heat from public protests or public action becomes wide spread then you raise the bogey of perfection. Public does not have goals, movement leaders are selfish etc.

When you are totally at a loss, you maximize your attacks on posters who exposed your hollow arguments. They become less intelligent, they fail to understand your superior comments, they are long winded etc. Etc.

Arrogance does not make up for lack of public policy comprehension. Stubbornly repeating your own failed reasoning does not constitute debating. Snide remarks do not provide escape clauses all the time.

by Guest Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:15 am

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-06-04/chennai/29620412_1_female-foeticide-girl-child-salem

I stand corrected. Salem which had one of the worst child sex ratios in India in the 2001 census has shown a marked improvement in the figure as per the 2011 census. it's amazing that in 10 years such a significant improvement in the figure took place.

I would also like to know the current status of sex ratio at birth in Salem. A 2007 article in The Hindu claimed it was getting worse.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030412490100.htm

by Guest Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:03 am

Rashmun wrote:http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-06-04/chennai/29620412_1_female-foeticide-girl-child-salem

I stand corrected. Salem which had one of the worst child sex ratios in India in the 2001 census has shown a marked improvement in the figure as per the 2011 census. it's amazing that in 10 years such a significant improvement in the figure took place.

I would also like to know the current status of sex ratio at birth in Salem. A 2007 article in The Hindu claimed it was getting worse.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030412490100.htm

If the birth ratio in Salem was becoming worse when studied in 2007 it is difficult to believe how the child sex ratio in the district showed such a drastic improvement in 2011 (as compared to 2001).

by Kumarg Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:38 am

I think this argument that female foeticide is responsible for skewed sex ration, thus the rising molestation of women, is wrong.

Just because in some patriarchal societies, boys are preferred instead of girls, (hence disrespect for women) does not mean that the men of the same families will go out and molest women, which is another (and an extreme) form of disrespect for women.

Families prefer boys over girls for only these 2 reasons (1) They need not pay for the boy's wedding and dowry expenses which can be a huge dent in the family's savings (2) They need someone to carry out the family's name, legacy, business, etc.

None of these 2 above reason in the slightest imply that men in these families will necessarily look at women as someone they would want to molest.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:53 am

Rekz wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote: The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Bwahahaha..very true. Half the women protesting there will have their bottoms pinched if they are not vigilant in all that chaos.

Yes, if they want to be axed.

I told you so *smirk*

by bw Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:04 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Rekz wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote: The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Bwahahaha..very true. Half the women protesting there will have their bottoms pinched if they are not vigilant in all that chaos.

Yes, if they want to be axed.

I told you so *smirk*

“I got drenched after the police turned water cannons on our group and
this drunk man fell on me and offered to ‘heat me up’. What nonsense!”
said a student of Gargi College."

omigawd! watching the footage on BBC, it did seem like a lot of people 'protesting' were there just to have some fun without really having an idea what the cause is all about. they were grinning, nudging each other and making weird gestures at the camera.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:26 am

bw wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Rekz wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote: The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Bwahahaha..very true. Half the women protesting there will have their bottoms pinched if they are not vigilant in all that chaos.

Yes, if they want to be axed.

I told you so *smirk*

“I got drenched after the police turned water cannons on our group and
this drunk man fell on me and offered to ‘heat me up’. What nonsense!”
said a student of Gargi College."

omigawd! watching the footage on BBC, it did seem like a lot of people 'protesting' were there just to have some fun without really having an idea what the cause is all about. they were grinning, nudging each other and making weird gestures at the camera.

Shush woman. These are all trivial sideshows to a grand awakening of ever-vigilant Delhiites to the awesome power of democracy and the earth-shaking statement they are making at India Gate. Only cynics with their damaged ideas focus on these things rather than the sheer awesomeness of vox populi.

by truthbetold Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:00 am

Run drunk run.
Merlot,
you failed to show any evidence to support your delhi police and dixit. In fact dixit called delhi police ineffective and admitted that delhi is the rape capital.
now that your chalta hai attitude proven wrong your response is to point some agitator picked his nose. Is that the best you can do?

by Rekz Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:55 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Rekz wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote: The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Bwahahaha..very true. Half the women protesting there will have their bottoms pinched if they are not vigilant in all that chaos.

Yes, if they want to be axed.

I told you so *smirk*

What a shame!! Ban daaru....I HATE MEN & MIL's....Grrrrrrr cyclops

by Sandee2020 Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:30 am

It is time for women to carry mace instead of their cell phones.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:05 pm

truthbetold wrote:Run drunk run.

Why run when I can loiter and watch a pompous ass make a further fool of himself?

truthbetold wrote:Merlot,
you failed to show any evidence to support your delhi police and dixit.

Unkil, I've no idea what you hallucinated but if you read my posts, you'll see that I didn't make any grand assertions. All I said was that the cops had done a good job in this case, arresting all the rapists within a couple of days. You on the other hand ranted about ineffective police but failed to produce any instances of failures by Delhi cops despite having all the time in the world to google away. And I'm yet to see any policy prescriptions from you to cut rapes in half.

truthbetold wrote:In fact dixit called delhi police ineffective and admitted that delhi is the rape capital.

Of course Delhi is the rape capital. Nobody (other than those voices in your head) has said otherwise. That is how I predicted that all those protesting girls would have their butts pinched (much to your outrage). It was as easy as predicting that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow. Shiela Dixit has not leaked any state secret - I'm sure she relished saying that and turning the tables, given all the flak she's taken these last few days when law and order is not under her control any way.

truthbetold wrote:now that your chalta hai attitude proven wrong your response is to point some agitator picked his nose. Is that the best you can do?

You can characterize my attitude any way you like, but the molestation of protesters really underscores the sheer silliness of protesting against the cops when in fact, the problem is in the attitudes of Delhi's men.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:33 am

truthbetold wrote:

The price of democracy is eternal vigil.

Govt., instead of appeasing the voters / public through quotas based on caste and religion in education, jobs and promotions in return for votes, should ensure a better law and order in the country. This naturally entails that people must be hired and promoted by the Govt., including in various law and order agencies, judicial courts and police depts., on the basis of merit and qualifications rather than caste / religion.

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