Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

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Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Kayalvizhi on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:24 pm


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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Vakavaka Pakapaka on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:30 pm

Did butcher Prabhakaran invent the word "bull-shit"?

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by goodcitizn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:33 pm

How do you justify people who get gored to death over such a barbaric sport? Is this the right way to measure one's valor?

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:04 pm

goodcitizn wrote:How do you justify people who get gored to death over such a barbaric sport? Is this the right way to measure one's valor?

Alternatively, they can recruit children to fight Sinhalese.

Which one you prefer?

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Kayalvizhi on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:06 pm

goodcitizn wrote:How do you justify people who get gored to death over such a barbaric sport? Is this the right way to measure one's valor?

Sometyimes onlookers get killed because organizers did not provide barriers. Charge them with negligent man slaughter. It has nothing to do with the sports.

It is not barbaric. Bull is not harmed. The men are not armed in any way. A Tamil name is "manju thazuvuthal" (embracing the bull)

Learn about the underelying topoics before pposting things here.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Kayalvizhi on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:21 pm


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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Kayalvizhi on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:32 pm


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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:08 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:How do you justify people who get gored to death over such a barbaric sport? Is this the right way to measure one's valor?

It is not barbaric. Bull is not harmed. The men are not armed in any way. A Tamil name is "manju thazuvuthal" (embracing the bull)

Learn about the underelying topoics before pposting things here.

"Bulls often have chilli pepper rubbed in their eyes, are force-fed
alcohol and have their testicles pinched, all in an effort to get them
crazed and frantic."

Is this how Pirabhakaran forced children to fight for the LTTE ?

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:03 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:How do you justify people who get gored to death over such a barbaric sport? Is this the right way to measure one's valor?

Sometyimes onlookers get killed because organizers did not provide barriers. Charge them with negligent man slaughter. It has nothing to do with the sports.

It is not barbaric. Bull is not harmed. The men are not armed in any way. A Tamil name is "manju thazuvuthal" (embracing the bull)

Learn about the underelying topoics before pposting things here.

When you post nonsense, I have every right to respond. This sport is barbaric on two counts: 1. It causes death and injury to both the participants and on-lookers. 2. The bull is subjected to cruelty. Even the very post you made with the picture of the bull has explicit data citing cruelty as Marathadi was quick to point out. Here's an excerpt from Wiki:

The Animal welfare Board of India took the case to the Supreme Court, which is considering an outright ban on Jallikattu because of the cruelty to animals and the threat to public safety involved. Bulls often have chilli pepper rubbed in their eyes, are force-fed alcohol and have their testicles pinched, all in an effort to get them crazed and frantic. Villagers throw themselves on top of the terrified animals in an effort to "tame" them and claim the prize. This is opposed by animal advocates. The AWBI comfortably forget that once the game is stopped, these bulls would end up in slaughter houses in Kerala.

I wonder how you would view if someone pinched your testicles in order to get you crazy not that such an exercise would be warranted as you seem to be at that stage already with your usual fanaticism.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by truthbetold on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:48 am

One can change the rules associated with the sport. Times changed and sensibilities change. But outright ban on traditional sports based on fragile sensibilities is an indication of a confused society. My knowledge of jallikkattu is limited to news stories and i say improve but not destroy.
In ap, we have bullock cart races. People spend enormous sums to buy the right animal and get it ready. Those races are terrific. Accidents happen and gambling is associated with them. Again change and improve but not kill the sport.
Another tradition is cock fights. They were designed to kill one of the birds to decide the winner. Heavy gambling. Officially banned. Who cares. Widely participated including elected officials.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:53 am

truthbetold wrote:One can change the rules associated with the sport. Times changed and sensibilities change. But outright ban on traditional sports based on fragile sensibilities is an indication of a confused society. My knowledge of jallikkattu is limited to news stories and i say improve but not destroy.
In ap, we have bullock cart races. People spend enormous sums to buy the right animal and get it ready. Those races are terrific. Accidents happen and gambling is associated with them. Again change and improve but not kill the sport.
Another tradition is cock fights. They were designed to kill one of the birds to decide the winner. Heavy gambling. Officially banned. Who cares. Widely participated including elected officials.

Sure, change the rules to maintain the tradition by eliminating what is barbaric: (1) Find bulls with no horns and conduct the sport. (2) Prohibit the use of alcohol and abuse of testicles. And (3), if neither is possible, use artificial bucking bulls.

Cock fights have no place in a decent society.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Maria S on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:03 am

truthbetold wrote:One can change the rules associated with the sport. Times changed and sensibilities change. But outright ban on traditional sports based on fragile sensibilities is an indication of a confused society. My knowledge of jallikkattu is limited to news stories and i say improve but not destroy.
In ap, we have bullock cart races. People spend enormous sums to buy the right animal and get it ready. Those races are terrific. Accidents happen and gambling is associated with them. Again change and improve but not kill the sport.
Another tradition is cock fights. They were designed to kill one of the birds to decide the winner. Heavy gambling. Officially banned. Who cares. Widely participated including elected officials.



I am with TBT and Kayal on this one..on certain forms of jallikattu.

I have seen Kandasamy from Vellore and Kuppusamy from Arcot..tame many bulls..the bulls were not injured (treated like Royalty)..and none of the bull-tamers were injured either.

*I think the animal-protection groups mean well (*I love animals- care for their welfare too)..but, while strict monitoring and rules/guidelines are important to stop the fights, if there are any injuries..think banning them is an overreach.

Speaking of Kandasamy..he's a nice man..like many people in metropolitan Vellore..he always used to say nice things to visitors to make them feel welcome/feel at home.."Saar/Madam...you can learn tamil in five mins..it's not a big deal"..or "you want to see English movies, Hindi movies, Telugu movies, Malayalam movies?"..the local theaters show them..esp. Dinakaran theater.."..and they did..because of CMC and other historical sites- we always had lots of visitors..including internationals- it was a theater money making decision- not some charitable Nationalistic/Internationalistic endeavor to make us learn languages!

And speaking of "link languages"..never needed one besides English in Vellore..or Chennai..or anywhere for that matter..if anything, these days - linking (connecting) with some of my NRI tamil thozhars/thozhis who think thamizh is not good enough to converse is rather annoying..even after I keep answering in Tamil, they insist speaking in English and pretend they have forgotten Tamil, and even worse say "you still speak tamil so well", like I need some award for escaping tamil amnesia:)

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:10 am

Maria S wrote:

And speaking of "link languages"..never needed one besides English in Vellore..or Chennai..or anywhere for that matter..if anything, these days -

why wouldn't you say that in the appropriate thread to rashmun?

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Maria S on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:16 am

Please Max..if you want me to say something to you..tell me, if I feel like it..will certainly do so!

Leave me out of all your seval (cock fights) here..I'll say what I want, where I want to:)

*I liked your "Kandasamy from Vellore"!

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by truthbetold on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:49 am

My observation is indian authorities think they cannot implement rules after they were framed and resort to wholesale banning. Gift from british colonial times.
West developed at a different time and pace. Imposing western sensibilities on rural india results in mini salt satyagrahas.
Traditions change with economy, educational levels, and societal evolution. Prescriptive methods should be limited to safety, human rights and some law and order situations.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Maria S on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:01 am

truthbetold wrote:My observation is indian authorities think they cannot implement rules after they were framed and resort to wholesale banning. Gift from british colonial times.
West developed at a different time and pace. Imposing western sensibilities on rural india results in mini salt satyagrahas.
Traditions change with economy, educational levels, and societal evolution. Prescriptive methods should be limited to safety, human rights and some law and order situations.

TBT,

I am not with you completely in this one:)

People are not that different..look at how difficult it is to change Gun laws (based on 2nd amendment in the US).*I went to a shopping mall yesterday and the parking lot was not that full..not far away there is a huge gun mall (I mean a gun supermarket with a gun range)..the parking lot was full..at 9 pm at night, that scares me. Look like they will have new laws and it was like folks were buying up even more.

There are plenty of people in rural India who have common sense/integrity and can discriminate what is humane and what is harmful. There is plenty of corruption, but, there are those Govt. officials/law enforcement who have integrity too. *This bull taming should be public- for everyone to see..ban private competitions.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:08 am

more than bull taming it seems to me that india needs men taming, i.e. taming of unemployed men roving the streets of new delhi and punjab in search of their next prey.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by truthbetold on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:16 am

Maria,
we do not differ on existence intelligent rural folks and honest officials. We may perceive differently about the nature of indian society. While i am optimistic about indian future
The forces that are leading change do not always generate confidence. That is why i look for indian people to step up and tell the leaders which direction they want to go.

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:35 am

Let me respond to Maria's comment below:

"There are plenty of people in rural India who have common sense/integrity and can discriminate what is humane and what is harmful."

While I admire your blissful optimism, I have a flash for you. Villages in Tamil Nadu (the cultural center of jallikattu) still practice the ceremony of beheading a goat in public (unless it "doesn't" shake its head while being dowsed or sprinkled with water) as a sacrifice to Kali. Unfortunately the goats don't get the memo in advance.

Because of the supreme court ruling on what is prohibited during jallikattu, there is some hope for humanity to prevail.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130113/news-current-affairs/article/madurai-villages-ready-jallikattu


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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Maria S on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:59 am

goodcitizn wrote:Let me respond to Maria's comment below:

"There are plenty of people in rural India who have common sense/integrity and can discriminate what is humane and what is harmful."

While I admire your blissful optimism, I have a flash for you. Villages in Tamil Nadu (the cultural center of jallikattu) still practice the ceremony of beheading a goat in public (unless it "doesn't" shake its head while being dowsed or sprinkled with water) as a sacrifice to Kali. Unfortunately the goats don't get the memo in advance.

Because of the supreme court ruling on what is prohibited during jallikattu, there is some hope for humanity to prevail.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130113/news-current-affairs/article/madurai-villages-ready-jallikattu




GC,

Thanks..understand your good intentions, but, the blissful optimist in me, is often quickly tamed by the pragmatist/realist in me:)

I think we are mixing up restrictions for sports (what constitutes as sports) and what is sacrifice/killing of animals..I agree it's not all so in black and white..being a non-vegetarian..would be totally hypocritical of me..to talk about "what kind of killing of an animal" is more compassionate..when I know where many of my food items come from (even yesterday was looking for halal goat meat in the USA)- and that's the/my reality.

In any case..time to go and attend the late mass..nothing more to add from me on this one:)

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:36 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:

btw thazuvuthal (தழுவுதல்) doesn't mean taming, it means embracing. this seems like some new age name for what used to be traditionally called jallikattu (ஜல்லிக்கட்டு). in fact that poster the little girl is holding calls it jallikattu. where did you get this Eru thazhuvuthal?

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by goodcitizn on Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:23 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:

btw thazuvuthal (தழுவுதல்) doesn't mean taming, it means embracing. this seems like some new age name for what used to be traditionally called jallikattu (ஜல்லிக்கட்டு). in fact that poster the little girl is holding calls it jallikattu. where did you get this Eru thazhuvuthal?

"Thazhuvudhal" is translated from "Kattu". But the name jallikattu is actually a colloquialized version of jellicut, a particular breed of cattle.

http://krankykids.com/cows/mydailycow_2010/2010_october/20101003.html

Perhaps the right appellation ought to be: Eru pazhakkappadathuthal or adakkuthal

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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Rishi on Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:39 am

KayalVizhi has got his/her head in the sand.

Jallikattu is an of cruelty. Period.

BTW why is that the people who protest over social issues drag children to march, hold signs etc. Does the child in the picture really know why she is out there holding that sign?

I saw an anti-abortion rally in Washington DC. Teachers from Alabama brought children as young as 7 made them march in a hot day. Must be one of those Christian academies. The teacher did not want to answer my question when I asked her why she brought them all the way to protest when they should be in the classroom.



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Re: Ancient Tamil game Eru Thazuvuthal (game of bull taming)

Post by Hellsangel on Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:55 am

Paparajan, is it a lower caste sport?

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