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yogi
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the sepoy mutiny
by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:46 pm
my older d is studying a bit of indian history in school and reading about the sepoy mutiny of 1857. so she asked me what i knew about it. i told her what i knew and then gave her this very nice book i have about the british history of india called, the proudest day: india's long road to independence.
and then i was looking for a british perspective on it, something so over the top biased just to make the point that the same events when seen by two sides could look so different. so i remembered this holmes story. we watched it together:
and then i was looking for a british perspective on it, something so over the top biased just to make the point that the same events when seen by two sides could look so different. so i remembered this holmes story. we watched it together:
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Hellsangel Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:58 pm
I vaguely remember a book called Shadow of the Moon.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Idéfix Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:03 pm
I am surprised they use the name Sepoy Mutiny. I wonder if they use that name in the UK now; I thought they had taken to calling it the Indian Rebellion. I prefer the name War of 1857.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Guest Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:06 pm
i also remember the hindi word used for it as gadar, which means the same, mutiny/revolt.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Uppili Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:05 pm
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:my older d is studying a bit of indian history in school and reading about the sepoy mutiny of 1857. so she asked me what i knew about it. i told her what i knew and then gave her this very nice book i have about the british history of india called, the proudest day: india's long road to independence.
So already done with the chapter on Barber, Akbar, Moguls, etc?.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:17 pm
they're not doing the moghuls. just sepoy mutiny onwards.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Hellsangel Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:21 pm
http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Moon-M-Kaye/dp/0312714106/
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by confuzzled dude Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:31 pm
Uppili wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:my older d is studying a bit of indian history in school and reading about the sepoy mutiny of 1857. so she asked me what i knew about it. i told her what i knew and then gave her this very nice book i have about the british history of india called, the proudest day: india's long road to independence.
So already done with the chapter on Barber, Akbar, Moguls, etc?.
I'm sure Max has plenty of data on that or will hire Rushmun to tutor.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Merlot Daruwala Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:32 am
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:my older d is studying a bit of indian history in school and reading about the sepoy mutiny of 1857. so she asked me what i knew about it. i told her what i knew and then gave her this very nice book i have about the british history of india called, the proudest day: india's long road to independence.
and then i was looking for a british perspective on it, something so over the top biased just to make the point that the same events when seen by two sides could look so different. so i remembered this holmes story. we watched it together:
My favorite narrative of the event is from William Dalrymple's The Last Mughal. He gives a blow by blow militaristic account of the major skirmishes that made up that rebellion and the terrible aftermath.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:54 am
Merlot Daruwala wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:my older d is studying a bit of indian history in school and reading about the sepoy mutiny of 1857. so she asked me what i knew about it. i told her what i knew and then gave her this very nice book i have about the british history of india called, the proudest day: india's long road to independence.
and then i was looking for a british perspective on it, something so over the top biased just to make the point that the same events when seen by two sides could look so different. so i remembered this holmes story. we watched it together:
My favorite narrative of the event is from William Dalrymple's The Last Mughal. He gives a blow by blow militaristic account of the major skirmishes that made up that rebellion and the terrible aftermath.
i've been wanting to read this book for a while. on my list. thanks.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Idéfix Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:55 am
He also covers the Delhi part of the struggle rather well in The City of Djinns. I like the way he tells those stories.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Ponniyin Selvan Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:59 am
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:my older d is studying a bit of indian history in school and reading about the sepoy mutiny of 1857. so she asked me what i knew about it. i told her what i knew and then gave her this very nice book i have about the british history of india called, the proudest day: india's long road to independence.
and then i was looking for a british perspective on it, something so over the top biased just to make the point that the same events when seen by two sides could look so different. so i remembered this holmes story. we watched it together:
This is a nice and funny historical fiction written with a British hero as the good guy in the middle of sepoy mutiny.. You can get it from your local library.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman_in_the_Great_Game
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by indophile Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:35 am
Whatever be the versions, the one thing that came out was that Tantia Tope (Pandurang Vitthal something) was one of the greatest (if not "the greatest") military generals that the world had seen. And also, Jhansi-ki-Rani Lakshmi Bai was the greatest fearless leader that India had produced. She was the one who first coined the slogan "azaadshaahi hamaara paidaashi huq hai" (Independence is my/our birth right) which was later rephrased by Balagangadhar Tilak as "swaraaj humaara janm huq hai."
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by yogi Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:56 pm
The participation of jhansi ki rani, nana saheb, bahadur shah in the revolt was mainly due to their personal grievances caused by the doctrine of lapse policy. As some scholar rightly said "it (1857 revolt) was the last effort of traditional India to establish hold of old princely class and zamindars." Glad the revolt was a failure otherwise the rebels would have put the clock back into medieval era.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by indophile Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:09 pm
Back in 1857 there were only two real republics - U.S. and France. So it's no wonder that the princes of the native states took title for the struggle in India. But the common people did support them, and their support was to drive the alien power out of the country, and they paiid a heavy price for providing that support. Every tree on either side of the Grand Trunk Road between Calcutta and Lahore had a body hanging from one of its branches.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by yogi Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:22 pm
The participation of people imo has nothing to do with the elimination of alien power. people right from the beginning didn't care a hoot about who's in the power. All started imo beacuse of two reasons 1. economic policies that affected peasants and artisans a great deal 2. reforms of the british that orthodox hindus found hard to digest.
"Every tree on either side of the Grand Trunk Road between Calcutta and Lahore had a body hanging from one of its branches."
-->where did you read this? probably from a book written by right wing extremist
"Every tree on either side of the Grand Trunk Road between Calcutta and Lahore had a body hanging from one of its branches."
-->where did you read this? probably from a book written by right wing extremist
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by indophile Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:35 pm
I recall reading in the Discovery of India by Jawaharlal Nehru (not by any stretch of imagination a right wing extremist) about the hangings on every tree between Agra and Delhi. There are other books (some by British authors) that talk about such hangings in Oudh (now UP) and Bengal (now Bihar and Bengal). Also, the British were not particularly wedded to hangings only - they revived the old Mughal methods of blowing people to bits by tying them to cannon and firing it. You may have heard of Col. Hodson of Hodson's Horse (cavalry). He had the last three Mughal princes stripped naked, had them paraded naked on a bullock cart down Chandini Chowk in Delhi, and the end of it, shot them in cold blood in front of Humayun's tomb.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by yogi Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:47 pm
I read Bipin chandra's struggle for independence and never came across these things. I've heard of Hodson who introduced khaki uniform. Is he the same who killed mughals?
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by indophile Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:58 pm
As more and more accounts of the 1857 war/struggle/mutiny by both British and Indian authors are read, more and more interesting things are revealed. For example, an Indian spy for the British garrison in Lucknow (named Angad Trivedi) used to carry messages folded and hidden in his asshole. A maulvi in Bareily hand-delivered the decapitated head of a small prince for a few rupees when the officers just sat for dinner and were on their first course. Col. Nicholson of the Nicholson's Horse loved Pathan boys and he always had a couple of them in tow to satisfy his needs. This is the colonel who revived the Moghul practice of blowing up people on cannon, and on and on and on.
I am not sure if Khaki was introduced by Col. Hodson.
I am not sure if Khaki was introduced by Col. Hodson.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by truthbetold Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:15 pm
yogi,
history is not always created by people with pure motive. the initial spark is generally caused by someone standing for something they believe and in most cases against great odds. history is written and rewritten to match winners grand narrative. jhansi may not have the modern understanding of rights but she sure could distinguish between apna and parayaa.
Rosa parks may have refused to vacate the bus seat because she is tired but the spark that wad lit is still shining.
Gandhi did not call for complete independence till 1930s. history is not planned sequence by trained factory schedulers or Marxist revolutionaries.
history is not always created by people with pure motive. the initial spark is generally caused by someone standing for something they believe and in most cases against great odds. history is written and rewritten to match winners grand narrative. jhansi may not have the modern understanding of rights but she sure could distinguish between apna and parayaa.
Rosa parks may have refused to vacate the bus seat because she is tired but the spark that wad lit is still shining.
Gandhi did not call for complete independence till 1930s. history is not planned sequence by trained factory schedulers or Marxist revolutionaries.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Maria S Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:59 pm
Just FYI, in case you did not read about the "Vellore Mutiny", the first Sepoy Mutiny..we used to go on school-field trips to the Vellore Fort and Arcot..where the tour guides and history teachers used to talk about this piece of the earlier struggles in 1806:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vellore_Mutiny
Did not know about the commemorative stamp issued by ex CM- MK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5168550.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vellore_Mutiny
Did not know about the commemorative stamp issued by ex CM- MK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5168550.stm
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by yogi Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:02 am
ok, gotcha.truthbetold wrote:yogi,
history is not always created by people with pure motive. the initial spark is generally caused by someone standing for something they believe and in most cases against great odds. history is written and rewritten to match winners grand narrative. jhansi may not have the modern understanding of rights but she sure could distinguish between apna and parayaa.
Rosa parks may have refused to vacate the bus seat because she is tired but the spark that wad lit is still shining.
Gandhi did not call for complete independence till 1930s. history is not planned sequence by trained factory schedulers or Marxist revolutionaries.
speaking of apna and parayaa one needs to remember the tribal people who were the earliest to distinguish so. Right from pahadiya sardars to tamars to santhals to gonds have fought against the parayaa and i think they didn't get their due recognition.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by Impedimenta Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:00 am
Max, thanks for posting the sherlock holmes video. one of my several favorites.
yes, impy is back. no more priyamvadai.
yes, impy is back. no more priyamvadai.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by southindian Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:51 am
Loved Sherlock Holmes. I don't know how britts make their programs better than Americans, but every time I watch British programs I can see the difference.
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Re: the sepoy mutiny
by truthbetold Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:27 am
yogi ,
in terms tribal history, vernacular literature, some ph.d. thesis have captured them to a limited extent. gond. revolt against British was well known in progressive circles of telangana. manyam revolt was made into the movie " alluri seetha Rama raju". overall that aspect of Indian history is still unknown or underpublicized.
in terms tribal history, vernacular literature, some ph.d. thesis have captured them to a limited extent. gond. revolt against British was well known in progressive circles of telangana. manyam revolt was made into the movie " alluri seetha Rama raju". overall that aspect of Indian history is still unknown or underpublicized.
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