Does NI culture foster leadership qualities

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:28 am

From Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley to many State representatives to Aneesh Chopra, former CTO turned politician running for Virginia lieutenant governor, majority of the first generation Americans of Indian origin appear to have hailed from the North Indian families. Their upbringing must have played a major role in shaping their personalities and cultivating interest in public service.

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:49 am

Entrepreneurship vs working for someone, probably is the difference. Although Doctors (SI immigrants from 70s) with their own practice are technically categorized as entrepreneurs they don't need to be as innovative nor require very good people skills.

by Hellsangel Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:49 am

Aren't they all Punjabi? Do you want to refine your question further?

by garam_kuta Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:04 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:Entrepreneurship vs working for someone, probably is the difference. Although Doctors (SI immigrants from 70s) with their own practice are technically categorized as entrepreneurs they don't need to be as innovative nor require very good people skills.

in general, it's the number and diversity of folks that one meets everyday, i guess - you get to know their pulse and also learn.

by Rishi Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:06 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:From Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley to many State representatives to Aneesh Chopra, former CTO turned politician running for Virginia lieutenant governor, majority of the first generation Americans of Indian origin appear to have hailed from the North Indian families. Their upbringing must have played a major role in shaping their personalities and cultivating interest in public service.

It is a fact that Punjabis are the most aggressive people in the Indian subcontinent. A typical SI is law abiding whereas the Punjabi would easily cut corners and engage in unethical practices in order to get ahead. He will do it at any cost.

A typical SI places a lot of value on intellect as an end itself. But for a typical Punjabi getting an education is a means to an end.

When it comes to doing business, there is a difference between a Marwadi and a Punjabi. You can negotiate a contract with a Marwadi and he will keep his word and sell it to you for the price you both agreed upon when you come back with the money. But a Sardarji will not keep his word to you if he later finds another customer willing to pay a higher price.

by Guest Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:14 pm

Rishi wrote:You can negotiate a contract with a Marwadi and he will keep his word and sell it to you for the price you both agreed upon when you come back with the money. But a Sardarji will not keep his word to you if he later finds another customer willing to pay a higher price.

true. there is a saying to the effect: if you lend money to a marwari then he will repay you after 5 years after eating your interest. if you lend your money to a sardarji then he will eat your principal. if you lend your money to a bihari sardarji then he will eat you. What a Face

by garam_kuta Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:19 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Rishi wrote:You can negotiate a contract with a Marwadi and he will keep his word and sell it to you for the price you both agreed upon when you come back with the money. But a Sardarji will not keep his word to you if he later finds another customer willing to pay a higher price.
true. there is a saying to the effect: if you lend money to a marwari then he will repay you after 5 years after eating your interest. if you lend your money to a sardarji then he will eat your principal. if you lend your money to a bihari sardarji then he will eat you.

LoL please bhaiya don't talk ill of the place whose history is indian history, for most people Sad

by Guest Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:37 pm

To the OP. I guess the difference may just be in choice of the field, in this case politics. So far seen mostly gujjus and punjus showing active interest in community politics. Most of this is with the goal of helping the community interests and either increase their represententation or form a lobby, to have a say in policies and decisions.

Other than that, seen natural leaders in different industries in finance and technology belonging to all parts of India, whether immigrant or first generation.

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:50 pm

Rishi wrote:
It is a fact that Punjabis are the most aggressive people in the Indian subcontinent. A typical SI is law abiding whereas the Punjabi would easily cut corners and engage in unethical practices in order to get ahead. He will do it at any cost.

A typical SI places a lot of value on intellect as an end itself. But for a typical Punjabi getting an education is a means to an end.

When it comes to doing business, there is a difference between a Marwadi and a Punjabi. You can negotiate a contract with a Marwadi and he will keep his word and sell it to you for the price you both agreed upon when you come back with the money. But a Sardarji will not keep his word to you if he later finds another customer willing to pay a higher price.

All of this may be right but it doesn't relate to leadership unless leader is analogous to cheater.

by garam_kuta Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:55 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rishi wrote:
It is a fact that Punjabis are the most aggressive people in the Indian subcontinent. A typical SI is law abiding whereas the Punjabi would easily cut corners and engage in unethical practices in order to get ahead. He will do it at any cost.

A typical SI places a lot of value on intellect as an end itself. But for a typical Punjabi getting an education is a means to an end.

When it comes to doing business, there is a difference between a Marwadi and a Punjabi. You can negotiate a contract with a Marwadi and he will keep his word and sell it to you for the price you both agreed upon when you come back with the money. But a Sardarji will not keep his word to you if he later finds another customer willing to pay a higher price.

All of this may be right but it doesn't relate to leadership unless leader is analogous to cheater.

haven't you heard that a good leader is one who is honest at home but a crook outside Wink

by confuzzled dude Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:03 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:To the OP. I guess the difference may just be in choice of the field, in this case politics. So far seen mostly gujjus and punjus showing active interest in community politics. Most of this is with the goal of helping the community interests and either increase their represententation or form a lobby, to have a say in policies and decisions.

Other than that, seen natural leaders in different industries in finance and technology belonging to all parts of India, whether immigrant or first generation.

but they are limited to dealing with a section of people narrowed to the area(s) of their expertise with specific goals, ultimate test would be leading masses, elites and in between.

by southindian Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:17 pm

Nope! Not true.

The right soil, soil pH, water, air, fertilizer and surroundings help grow a plant which can become a tree.

Use this everywhere.

by Kris Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:55 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:From Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley to many State representatives to Aneesh Chopra, former CTO turned politician running for Virginia lieutenant governor, majority of the first generation Americans of Indian origin appear to have hailed from the North Indian families. Their upbringing must have played a major role in shaping their personalities and cultivating interest in public service.

>>>> You may be overstating the case for parental influence. Notice all these guys grew up in this country. The upbringing you are referring to involves a substantial amount of exposure from an early age to ideas such as "can do, will try" American mindset and social and economic systems that reinforce that. The pull of the mainstream culture is very strong compared to the parental input even starting as early as the teens. The parental influence is likely to be greater if the parents have become acclimatized to the local culture, but then that is just a reinforcement of American ideas. On a related note, compare Americans to Europeans - more or less same ethnic stock for the most part, yet how many entrepreneurs do we see in Europe? How many Silicon Valleys? How many schools do cutting edge work across the spectrum in various fields?

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:47 am

Kris wrote:

>>>> You may be overstating the case for parental influence. Notice all these guys grew up in this country. The upbringing you are referring to involves a substantial amount of exposure from an early age to ideas such as "can do, will try" American mindset and social and economic systems that reinforce that. The pull of the mainstream culture is very strong compared to the parental input even starting as early as the teens. The parental influence is likely to be greater if the parents have become acclimatized to the local culture, but then that is just a reinforcement of American ideas. On a related note, compare Americans to Europeans - more or less same ethnic stock for the most part, yet how many entrepreneurs do we see in Europe? How many Silicon Valleys? How many schools do cutting edge work across the spectrum in various fields?

All of you've said is correct but the same holds true for SI kids as well, right? They're exposed to the same ideas from an early age and yet the numbers seem disproportionate.

by Kris Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:00 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:

>>>> You may be overstating the case for parental influence. Notice all these guys grew up in this country. The upbringing you are referring to involves a substantial amount of exposure from an early age to ideas such as "can do, will try" American mindset and social and economic systems that reinforce that. The pull of the mainstream culture is very strong compared to the parental input even starting as early as the teens. The parental influence is likely to be greater if the parents have become acclimatized to the local culture, but then that is just a reinforcement of American ideas. On a related note, compare Americans to Europeans - more or less same ethnic stock for the most part, yet how many entrepreneurs do we see in Europe? How many Silicon Valleys? How many schools do cutting edge work across the spectrum in various fields?

All of you've said is correct but the same holds true for SI kids as well, right? They're exposed to the same ideas from an early age and yet the numbers seem disproportionate.

>>>> There are more than you think in the current generation. The SI crowd that you see starting coming to these shores only in the mid 60's to early 70's. Their kids are probably still in the late 20's/early 30's. We need to look at the numbers in 10 years for a comparison. As an example, the industry I am in was pretty much a bastion of mid- upper middle class whites when I got started. Within a couple of decades, I see more ethnic faces and have had direct reports who were Asian, Hispanic etc.

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:22 am

Kris wrote:
>>>> There are more than you think in the current generation. The SI crowd that you see starting coming to these shores only in the mid 60's to early 70's. Their kids are probably still in the late 20's/early 30's. We need to look at the numbers in 10 years for a comparison. As an example, the industry I am in was pretty much a bastion of mid- upper middle class whites when I got started. Within a couple of decades, I see more ethnic faces and have had direct reports who were Asian, Hispanic etc.

I thought the same but I'm not sure how many Punajabis arrived in the early '60s. Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, Anish Chopra all're born in early '70s. My guess is majority of SI parents are so bogged down with higher education to the point that they won't even let their kids choose their career, perhaps preventing their kids from exploring other areas.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:25 am

confuzzled dude wrote:From Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley to many State representatives to Aneesh Chopra, former CTO turned politician running for Virginia lieutenant governor, majority of the first generation Americans of Indian origin appear to have hailed from the North Indian families. Their upbringing must have played a major role in shaping their personalities and cultivating interest in public service.

Looking at Laloo, Mulayam, Paswan, Soren, etc., I suppose you will conclude that NI culture fosters corruption. Hmm....

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:30 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Looking at Laloo, Mulayam, Paswan, Soren, etc., I suppose you will conclude that NI culture fosters corruption. Hmm....

then we've A.Rajas of DMK to balance the act.

by Rishi Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:34 pm

Almost 100% of the desis who own liquor stores in the United States are NIs mostly Punjabis and some from BIMARU states as well.

One of my co-workers, a Punjabi woman with an MBA had invested in a liquor store. She was still on a H1B visa and working full time in IT. But in the evenings and on the weekends, she was managing the liquor store. On paper, it was owned by some other Punjabi guy who was an American citizen.

A Bihari guy I know also owned a liquor store in the county I lived. He is an ABCD. He lived in some other county and was not eligible to own a liquor store in the county where I lived. He had an arrangement where some other fellow owned that store in name only. But the desi was really owning and operating it.

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:55 pm

On the contrary 99% of Kumon goers are SI kids, so what are we suggesting here?

by Rishi Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:25 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:On the contrary 99% of Kumon goers are SI kids, so what are we suggesting here?

I am only using your original post to highlight the basic characteristics of Punjabis.

Regarding your stuff about leadeship thing. There are many other things going for Punjabis.

1. Light skin.

It is unlikely Niki Hayley would have been elected governor in South Carolina if she was one of those utter black SIs.

2. Their food habits and attitude to life.

Punjabis eat meat, booze heavily and like to party. The love life and crave for excitement. Compare a typical Punjabi wedding with a TN brahmin wedding. The brahmin wedding is boring.

3. Their names are short and modern.

Bobby Jindal has better chances of succeeding than Vasudevan Lakshminarayanan.

4. They are willing to do anything to get ahead.

For example Bobby Jindal and Niki Haley became Christians not out of sheer faith. They figured out early in life that in a Christian country they are better off being a Christian. It is a fact that they ould not have been elected if they had remained Hindu or Sikh.

5. It is also true that SI parents cling to their culture more than Punjabis to theirs. I know a Tamil Brahmin professor who would have a one-hour Pooja session beginning 7 PM every day with his entire family. May be a Punjabi kid would be playing basket ball with his white and black friends at that time.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:40 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Looking at Laloo, Mulayam, Paswan, Soren, etc., I suppose you will conclude that NI culture fosters corruption. Hmm....

then we've A.Rajas of DMK to balance the act.

Yeah, he tried a crude imitation of NIs and ended up in Tihar. On the other hand, it is possible that DKheads are a special breed in SI. Very Happy

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:44 pm

Rishi wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:On the contrary 99% of Kumon goers are SI kids, so what are we suggesting here?

I am only using your original post to highlight the basic characteristics of Punjabis.

Regarding your stuff about leadeship thing. There are many other things going for Punjabis.

1. Light skin.

It is unlikely Niki Hayley would have been elected governor in South Carolina if she was one of those utter black SIs.

2. Their food habits and attitude to life.

Punjabis eat meat, booze heavily and like to party. The love life and crave for excitement. Compare a typical Punjabi wedding with a TN brahmin wedding. The brahmin wedding is boring.

3. Their names are short and modern.

Bobby Jindal has better chances of succeeding than Vasudevan Lakshminarayanan.

4. They are willing to do anything to get ahead.

For example Bobby Jindal and Niki Haley became Christians not out of sheer faith. They figured out early in life that in a Christian country they are better off being a Christian. It is a fact that they ould not have been elected if they had remained Hindu or Sikh.

5. It is also true that SI parents cling to their culture more than Punjabis to theirs. I know a Tamil Brahmin professor who would have a one-hour Pooja session beginning 7 PM every day with his entire family. May be a Punjabi kid would be playing basket ball with his white and black friends at that time.

your compulsion for self-loathing is always interesting to watch.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:44 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Looking at Laloo, Mulayam, Paswan, Soren, etc., I suppose you will conclude that NI culture fosters corruption. Hmm....

then we've A.Rajas of DMK to balance the act.

Yeah, he tried a crude imitation of NIs and ended up in Tihar. On the other hand, it is possible that DKheads are a special breed in SI.

Jagan is another guy who tried to imitate. He ended up in Chanchalguda jail. LOL.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Rishi wrote:

Bobby Jindal has better chances of succeeding than Vasudevan Lakshminarayanan.

try this if you think lakshminarayanan is a mouthful.

by Rishi Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:05 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:On the contrary 99% of Kumon goers are SI kids, so what are we suggesting here?

I am only using your original post to highlight the basic characteristics of Punjabis.

Regarding your stuff about leadeship thing. There are many other things going for Punjabis.

1. Light skin.

It is unlikely Niki Hayley would have been elected governor in South Carolina if she was one of those utter black SIs.

2. Their food habits and attitude to life.

Punjabis eat meat, booze heavily and like to party. The love life and crave for excitement. Compare a typical Punjabi wedding with a TN brahmin wedding. The brahmin wedding is boring.

3. Their names are short and modern.

Bobby Jindal has better chances of succeeding than Vasudevan Lakshminarayanan.

4. They are willing to do anything to get ahead.

For example Bobby Jindal and Niki Haley became Christians not out of sheer faith. They figured out early in life that in a Christian country they are better off being a Christian. It is a fact that they ould not have been elected if they had remained Hindu or Sikh.

5. It is also true that SI parents cling to their culture more than Punjabis to theirs. I know a Tamil Brahmin professor who would have a one-hour Pooja session beginning 7 PM every day with his entire family. May be a Punjabi kid would be playing basket ball with his white and black friends at that time.

your compulsion for self-loathing is always interesting to watch.

I am just pointing out the reality. That is all.

by Rishi Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:07 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:

Bobby Jindal has better chances of succeeding than Vasudevan Lakshminarayanan.

try this if you think lakshminarayanan is a mouthful.

The Brezinski fellow is an European. That makes the difference.

The mainstream culture of this country has its roots in Europe.

It is not the question of the name being mouthful. A lot of Eastern European names are as you pointed out. But for a typical American guy, a long non-European name does sound strange.

by Hellsangel Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:09 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:

Bobby Jindal has better chances of succeeding than Vasudevan Lakshminarayanan.

try this if you think lakshminarayanan is a mouthful.

The Brezinski fellow is an European. That makes the difference.

The mainstream culture of this country has its roots in Europe.

That is right, Paparajan. That is why they elected Barack Obama to be President.

by Rishi Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:16 pm

That is right, Paparajan. That is why they elected Barack Obama to be President.

Black Americans do not practice African culture. 90% of their customs and manners are same as white Americans.

Obama was raised by whites. His campaign made sure that whites knew that he was raised by his white grand parents.

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Rishi wrote:
I am only using your original post to highlight the basic characteristics of Punjabis.

2. Their food habits ~~and attitude to life.~~

You may have a point here, In the US, Indian cuisine is synonymous with Punjabi food.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:08 pm

Rishi wrote:

I am just pointing out the reality. That is all.

that reality is entirely in your mind. to most americans, indians, regardless of where they are from, and in fact most subcontinentals, look somewhat alike. i don't think they'd be able to draw the fine distinctions that you and i are able to regarding where someone is from by their looks and accents. of course they like to distinguish between indians and pakistanis, because they know pakistan is closely linked to terrorism. so don't try to foist your own insecurities and complexes about punjabis on americans.

kamala harris is the product of a dravidian mother and an african american father. she is probably darker than most of us, but that never stopped her from getting ahead. these imagined limitations are entirely in your mind.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:50 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

Looking at Laloo, Mulayam, Paswan, Soren, etc., I suppose you will conclude that NI culture fosters corruption. Hmm....

then we've A.Rajas of DMK to balance the act.

Yeah, he tried a crude imitation of NIs and ended up in Tihar. On the other hand, it is possible that DKheads are a special breed in SI.

Jagan is another guy who tried to imitate. He ended up in Chanchalguda jail. LOL.

Any way, my point is - if you have comparable samples, you won't see much of a difference between NIs, SIs, WIs and EIs as cultural differences are not as significant.

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:16 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Any way, my point is - if you have comparable samples, you won't see much of a difference between NIs, SIs, WIs and EIs as cultural differences are not as significant.

What do you think of the ratio of Indians in the US, 60:40 (North:South), Something is making them gravitate towards politics more than the SIs; As Kris mentioned SIs may catch up in a decade or so

by pravalika nanda Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:54 pm

[quote="Rishi"]

confuzzled dude wrote:On the contrary 99% of Kumon goers are SI kids, so what are we suggesting here?

I am only using your original post to highlight the basic characteristics of Punjabis.

Regarding your stuff about leadeship thing. There are many other things going for Punjabis.

1. Light skin.

It is unlikely Niki Hayley would have been elected governor in South Carolina if she was one of those utter black SIs.

2. Their food habits and attitude to life.

Punjabis eat meat, booze heavily and like to party. The love life and crave for excitement. Compare a typical Punjabi wedding with a TN brahmin wedding. The brahmin wedding is boring.

** there's going to be a NI-SI wedding in the family soon. the couple's so lovely. but i can tell the NI people are puzzled by our rituals. and the elders on my side are like, "what's a barat? a sangeet?" actually, i don't know either but i'll figure it out once i watch the hindi movie "hum aapke hain kaun?" and there's some event just to put on henna. who's going to sit down in one spot for those ground leaves to dry off? and they told me i have to dance, well, all the girls in my family have to, it's part of their protocol. i'm looking forward to the dancing. plus, we're going to have professional make-up people. well, i don't want to jinx it, so i can't talk about it anymore until after the event.

by Kris Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:21 pm

Rishi wrote:That is right, Paparajan. That is why they elected Barack Obama to be President.

Black Americans do not practice African culture. 90% of their customs and manners are same as white Americans.

Obama was raised by whites. His campaign made sure that whites knew that he was raised by his white grand parents.

>>>Obama is a black guy and is perceived as such by the American public. The point you are missing is that he didn't not make an issue of it and run as a "black" candidate. Neither did he play the 'victim' card or constantly obsess over how others perceived him. if he had done that, he almost certainly would have lost (Hint: Jesse Jackson). At the end of the day, people look for self-confidence and winning qualities in their leaders. The fact that a guy who is black and has the middle name Hussein got elected President is a reflection of the possibilities this society engenders. To be in denial of this, no matter what other problems this society may have, is a surefire way of squandering opportunities that is a godsend to many immigrants.

by Rishi Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:32 pm

Kris wrote:
Rishi wrote:That is right, Paparajan. That is why they elected Barack Obama to be President.

Black Americans do not practice African culture. 90% of their customs and manners are same as white Americans.

Obama was raised by whites. His campaign made sure that whites knew that he was raised by his white grand parents.

>>>Obama is a black guy and is perceived as such by the American public. The point you are missing is that he didn't not make an issue of it and run as a "black" candidate. Neither did he play the 'victim' card or constantly obsess over how others perceived him. if he had done that, he almost certainly would have lost (Hint: Jesse Jackson). At the end of the day, people look for self-confidence and winning qualities in their leaders. The fact that a guy who is black and has the middle name Hussein got elected President is a reflection of the possibilities this society engenders. To be in denial of this, no matter what other problems this society may have, is a surefire way of squandering opportunities that is a godsend to many immigrants.

Kris,

You have to agree that times are different.

Even Obama with all his qualities would not have made it in 1988.

Also Obama would not be elected as governor in Mississippi today.

I agree that non-white immigrants of today have far more opportunities than someone who came in 1960s or even 1970s.

by Kris Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:28 pm

Rishi wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rishi wrote:That is right, Paparajan. That is why they elected Barack Obama to be President.

Black Americans do not practice African culture. 90% of their customs and manners are same as white Americans.

Obama was raised by whites. His campaign made sure that whites knew that he was raised by his white grand parents.

>>>Obama is a black guy and is perceived as such by the American public. The point you are missing is that he didn't not make an issue of it and run as a "black" candidate. Neither did he play the 'victim' card or constantly obsess over how others perceived him. if he had done that, he almost certainly would have lost (Hint: Jesse Jackson). At the end of the day, people look for self-confidence and winning qualities in their leaders. The fact that a guy who is black and has the middle name Hussein got elected President is a reflection of the possibilities this society engenders. To be in denial of this, no matter what other problems this society may have, is a surefire way of squandering opportunities that is a godsend to many immigrants.

Kris,

You have to agree that times are different.

Even Obama with all his qualities would not have made it in 1988.

Also Obama would not be elected as governor in Mississippi today.

I agree that non-white immigrants of today have far more opportunities than someone who came in 1960s or even 1970s.

>>>>Yes, times are different but change is happening quite rapidly. If you want to step back and put this in perspective, there are paradigm shifts at play here. Race is becoming yesterday's news to those who matter. CEO's are now used to dealing with Chinese and Indian R&D guys, techies, and increasingly, Indian finance managers. In the tech industry, there are Indian CXO's. Indian doctors are ubiquitous. Companies do business abroad and are globally connected and have foreign employees and customers. In politics too, he who has money behind him is king. The Jindals and Haleys presumably sense this and are riding the wave. The idea is to figure out one's strengths and get ahead, rather than steadfastly hang on to a peripheralized minority status (an indian claim to this would be cynical and self-serving, anyway) and get left behind. Thankfully, Indians have not in general jumped on the latter bandwagon in noticeable numbers. I don't know the Mississippi situation, but this is not outside the realm of possibility in the near future. 20 years ago, would you have thought Louisiana would have a governor born to recently arrived indian immigrant parents?

by garam_kuta Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:33 pm

Rishi wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rishi wrote:That is right, Paparajan. That is why they elected Barack Obama to be President.

Black Americans do not practice African culture. 90% of their customs and manners are same as white Americans.

Obama was raised by whites. His campaign made sure that whites knew that he was raised by his white grand parents.

>>>Obama is a black guy and is perceived as such by the American public. The point you are missing is that he didn't not make an issue of it and run as a "black" candidate. Neither did he play the 'victim' card or constantly obsess over how others perceived him. if he had done that, he almost certainly would have lost (Hint: Jesse Jackson). At the end of the day, people look for self-confidence and winning qualities in their leaders. The fact that a guy who is black and has the middle name Hussein got elected President is a reflection of the possibilities this society engenders. To be in denial of this, no matter what other problems this society may have, is a surefire way of squandering opportunities that is a godsend to many immigrants.

Kris,

You have to agree that times are different.

Even Obama with all his qualities would not have made it in 1988.

Also Obama would not be elected as governor in Mississippi today.

I agree that non-white immigrants of today have far more opportunities than someone who came in 1960s or even 1970s.

are you saying that the rate of 'browning' of this nation and its sphere of influence are exponential in the 21st century and it will end up like say india but relatively very fast, ?

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