preparing for college - what advice can we give?

by truthbetold Sun May 12, 2013 8:58 am

What are the current trends in career choices?
I believe in individual picking their choices. But children get lot of information and advice from family and friends. Their school counsellors seem to have undue influence. I heard from my cousin that his child was influenced to seek a small well known private school in another state instead of a top 30 state university. Reason was more faculty support and good rec letters at private school for future medical education. That seems like a poor advice in my book.
I want to be able to put some options on table without making the choice for them?
what are the current choices?

by Guest Sun May 12, 2013 9:35 am

Doing very poorly in this department. Need to learn more and quick.

From what I hear, biochemistry plus pharmacy is very promising. I forgot the exact term , but that field is gearing towards customized medicines. Coz currently some medicines suit one and not others and doctors go through trial and errors. Instead, they are gearing towards testing you first and then customize meds. So I am thinking that's what you wanna be in.

They are growing up too fast. Older will already be in 10th. She is an ok student so far. I tell her to keep it simple and go to Rutgers. She hates Rutgers with all her heart. So ya, a stalemate there. Regarding field, she is definitely not going in anything with math or computers. Science or bio major is a possibility, as she is doing good in it and is genuinely interested in the subject. Now let us see if chemistry and physics kill it for her. She hates anything to do with literature/languages too. Arts and music is also out. And from what I can see so far, history and civics is not her forte. Geography is. Let's see. So far, science major it is. What next? Who knows. I think she will eventually go in some medical or para medical field, whatever she gets into. She is way too influenced by my sis and her kid who is going in pre-med. I will let them guide her in this matter.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 12, 2013 11:28 am

truthbetold wrote:What are the current trends in career choices?
I believe in individual picking their choices. But children get lot of information and advice from family and friends. Their school counsellors seem to have undue influence. I heard from my cousin that his child was influenced to seek a small well known private school in another state instead of a top 30 state university. Reason was more faculty support and good rec letters at private school for future medical education. That seems like a poor advice in my book.
I want to be able to put some options on table without making the choice for them?
what are the current choices?

It is ok to work on career choices - but not on money or positions. Bcz things are so fast, no field is assured of its glamor for more than 10 years. Go with what a person likes. That too being in the US has great advantages in doing whatever one likes to do at the undergraduate level and pick any field - medicine, business, finance, and even engineering - after that.

by Kris Sun May 12, 2013 1:43 pm

truthbetold wrote:What are the current trends in career choices?
I believe in individual picking their choices. But children get lot of information and advice from family and friends. Their school counsellors seem to have undue influence. I heard from my cousin that his child was influenced to seek a small well known private school in another state instead of a top 30 state university. Reason was more faculty support and good rec letters at private school for future medical education. That seems like a poor advice in my book.
I want to be able to put some options on table without making the choice for them?
what are the current choices?

>>>> My suggestion would be to take a balanced approach and not get caught up in this college frenzy that is fueled by other indian parents and the alarmist noises schools make about multiple AP classes and the need for close- to- perfect SAT scores. This is for your own sanity. I also wouldn't focus too much on lucrative careers first and work backward to figure out major/college choices (many parents fall into his trap as well). Instead encourage the kid to do his best to keep his GPA up and enroll him in a coaching class for the SAT before taking it, no more than twice, maybe three times tops. Let the chips fall where they may. You will find that there is a much wider spectrum than just the coveted ivies and Stanford& Berkeley. As to the major, leave it up the student to come up with a few choices and then guide him in terms of what is going to give him some concrete marketing skills. Be open to changes in the first year or two. By the way, there is a site payscale.com, I think, that compares the income levels upon graduation, 10 years from graduation etc. by school. You will find it to be an eye-opener in terms of value for your education money. Of course, none of this will matter if the kid is super focused and knows what he wants to do. He will chart his own path, in that case.

by Kris Sun May 12, 2013 1:49 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
truthbetold wrote:What are the current trends in career choices?
I believe in individual picking their choices. But children get lot of information and advice from family and friends. Their school counsellors seem to have undue influence. I heard from my cousin that his child was influenced to seek a small well known private school in another state instead of a top 30 state university. Reason was more faculty support and good rec letters at private school for future medical education. That seems like a poor advice in my book.
I want to be able to put some options on table without making the choice for them?
what are the current choices?

It is ok to work on career choices - but not on money or positions. Bcz things are so fast, no field is assured of its glamor for more than 10 years. Go with what a person likes. That too being in the US has great advantages in doing whatever one likes to do at the undergraduate level and pick any field - medicine, business, finance, and even engineering - after that.

>>>My thoughts exactly.

by rawemotions Sun May 12, 2013 4:53 pm

Kris wrote:
truthbetold wrote:What are the current trends in career choices?
I believe in individual picking their choices. But children get lot of information and advice from family and friends. Their school counsellors seem to have undue influence. I heard from my cousin that his child was influenced to seek a small well known private school in another state instead of a top 30 state university. Reason was more faculty support and good rec letters at private school for future medical education. That seems like a poor advice in my book.
I want to be able to put some options on table without making the choice for them?
what are the current choices?

>>>> My suggestion would be to take a balanced approach and not get caught up in this college frenzy that is fueled by other indian parents and the alarmist noises schools make about multiple AP classes and the need for close- to- perfect SAT scores. This is for your own sanity. I also wouldn't focus too much on lucrative careers first and work backward to figure out major/college choices (many parents fall into his trap as well). Instead encourage the kid to do his best to keep his GPA up and enroll him in a coaching class for the SAT before taking it, no more than twice, maybe three times tops. Let the chips fall where they may. You will find that there is a much wider spectrum than just the coveted ivies and Stanford& Berkeley. As to the major, leave it up the student to come up with a few choices and then guide him in terms of what is going to give him some concrete marketing skills. Be open to changes in the first year or two. By the way, there is a site payscale.com, I think, that compares the income levels upon graduation, 10 years from graduation etc. by school. You will find it to be an eye-opener in terms of value for your education money. Of course, none of this will matter if the kid is super focused and knows what he wants to do. He will chart his own path, in that case.

>>Good suggestion!
However, you see, many kids might not know what they want to do, OR worse they might be misguided by one example which may not apply generally to every one else. Thus, they do need right guidance.
This is where parents face a dilemma, because as Uppili pointed out, the world is changing.
For example, I recently read that there is a course on bio-engineering. I still do not understand, how this is different from
Micro biology OR cellular biology or what career choices it opens up. I see this kid from India doing Bio-engineering bachelors and then he goes to Oxford in England for Graduate studies. Does it mean he could not find any school in US to do his Graduate study ?
Totally confusing!

BTW, I went to this website payscale, and it does not seem to be comprehensive. I don't think it even comes close to
IEEE salary survey, but may be it is good for figuring out how much a college graduate from a particular school would make.

Also, there are Some surprises in this website. It places Colorado school of mines above Stanford and I do not see Berkeley, UCSD or John Hopkins, UCSF (Graduate medical) in the top 20.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 12, 2013 5:29 pm

rawemotions wrote:
For example, I recently read that there is a course on bio-engineering. I still do not understand, how this is different from
Micro biology OR cellular biology or what career choices it opens up. I see this kid from India doing Bio-engineering bachelors and then he goes to Oxford in England for Graduate studies. Does it mean he could not find any school in US to do his Graduate study ?
Totally confusing!

BTW, I went to this website payscale, and it does not seem to be comprehensive. I don't think it even comes close to
IEEE salary survey, but may be it is good for figuring out how much a college graduate from a particular school would make.

Also, there are Some surprises in this website. It places Colorado school of mines above Stanford and I do not see Berkeley, UCSD or John Hopkins, UCSF (Graduate medical) in the top 20.

Surveys are just surveys - based on those who respond - many responders have a built-in agenda. So they need to take it with a pinch of salt. I have not seen the Payscale.com yet. Colorado school of mines is a good school (in certain areas).

Bioengineering is the biggest bluff. Unless one goes to a top 25 schools, jobs area scarce. People go by labor dept website that says Bioeng jobs will grow by 100% and elect/mech will grow by 14%. The ill-informed public (which is 98%) go ga-ga on that 80% growth. They forget 80% growth based on the current 50,000 jobs will end up with just 100,000 jobs in 10 years, whereas Mechanical will grow from 5 million to 5.7 million. Now there are some 70 Bioengineering programs and 300+ mech/elec programs. Think about the output and chances of getting a GOOD job.

If one is looking to work after just a Bachelor degree - STAY AWAY from Bioengineering (Also, one needs to do some 5 to 10 extra courses and with very ill-qualified instructors who are all have mech/elec/chem background.). I know quite a few Bioeng graduates who did quite well 3.0 GPA from top 25 Bio schools toiling in second rate jobs.

by Kris Sun May 12, 2013 6:19 pm

rawemotions wrote:
Kris wrote:
truthbetold wrote:What are the current trends in career choices?
I believe in individual picking their choices. But children get lot of information and advice from family and friends. Their school counsellors seem to have undue influence. I heard from my cousin that his child was influenced to seek a small well known private school in another state instead of a top 30 state university. Reason was more faculty support and good rec letters at private school for future medical education. That seems like a poor advice in my book.
I want to be able to put some options on table without making the choice for them?
what are the current choices?

>>>> My suggestion would be to take a balanced approach and not get caught up in this college frenzy that is fueled by other indian parents and the alarmist noises schools make about multiple AP classes and the need for close- to- perfect SAT scores. This is for your own sanity. I also wouldn't focus too much on lucrative careers first and work backward to figure out major/college choices (many parents fall into his trap as well). Instead encourage the kid to do his best to keep his GPA up and enroll him in a coaching class for the SAT before taking it, no more than twice, maybe three times tops. Let the chips fall where they may. You will find that there is a much wider spectrum than just the coveted ivies and Stanford& Berkeley. As to the major, leave it up the student to come up with a few choices and then guide him in terms of what is going to give him some concrete marketing skills. Be open to changes in the first year or two. By the way, there is a site payscale.com, I think, that compares the income levels upon graduation, 10 years from graduation etc. by school. You will find it to be an eye-opener in terms of value for your education money. Of course, none of this will matter if the kid is super focused and knows what he wants to do. He will chart his own path, in that case.

>>Good suggestion!
However, you see, many kids might not know what they want to do, OR worse they might be misguided by one example which may not apply generally to every one else. Thus, they do need right guidance.
This is where parents face a dilemma, because as Uppili pointed out, the world is changing.
For example, I recently read that there is a course on bio-engineering. I still do not understand, how this is different from
Micro biology OR cellular biology or what career choices it opens up. I see this kid from India doing Bio-engineering bachelors and then he goes to Oxford in England for Graduate studies. Does it mean he could not find any school in US to do his Graduate study ?
Totally confusing!

BTW, I went to this website payscale, and it does not seem to be comprehensive. I don't think it even comes close to
IEEE salary survey, but may be it is good for figuring out how much a college graduate from a particular school would make.

Also, there are Some surprises in this website. It places Colorado school of mines above Stanford and I do not see Berkeley, UCSD or John Hopkins, UCSF (Graduate medical) in the top 20.

>>>>The Payscale site is not comprehensive, but it gives an idea of the ROI for various schools. With regard to guiding of the children, my point is for the parents themselves to be on guard and not take in various inputs and become stressed out themselves. There are a couple of things to keep in mind: the student's interest/inclinations and the not-too-uncommon change of majors after starting college.

by truthbetold Sun May 12, 2013 6:31 pm

Good discussion. Thanks.
How can one identify A child's preference?
And a more important question is how do we translate the preference indicator to a career choice. Bio Eng, genetically etc. How can I educate my self to give advice?
The problem is rest of the environment keep pushing their advice. So. Need to figure this reasonably quickly.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 12, 2013 6:56 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
rawemotions wrote:
For example, I recently read that there is a course on bio-engineering. I still do not understand, how this is different from
Micro biology OR cellular biology or what career choices it opens up. I see this kid from India doing Bio-engineering bachelors and then he goes to Oxford in England for Graduate studies. Does it mean he could not find any school in US to do his Graduate study ?
Totally confusing!

BTW, I went to this website payscale, and it does not seem to be comprehensive. I don't think it even comes close to
IEEE salary survey, but may be it is good for figuring out how much a college graduate from a particular school would make.

Also, there are Some surprises in this website. It places Colorado school of mines above Stanford and I do not see Berkeley, UCSD or John Hopkins, UCSF (Graduate medical) in the top 20.

Surveys are just surveys - based on those who respond - many responders have a built-in agenda. So they need to take it with a pinch of salt. I have not seen the Payscale.com yet. Colorado school of mines is a good school (in certain areas).

Bioengineering is the biggest bluff. Unless one goes to a top 25 schools, jobs area scarce. People go by labor dept website that says Bioeng jobs will grow by 100% and elect/mech will grow by 14%. The ill-informed public (which is 98%) go ga-ga on that 80% growth. They forget 80% growth based on the current 50,000 jobs will end up with just 100,000 jobs in 10 years, whereas Mechanical will grow from 5 million to 5.7 million. Now there are some 70 Bioengineering programs and 300+ mech/elec programs. Think about the output and chances of getting a GOOD job.

If one is looking to work after just a Bachelor degree - STAY AWAY from Bioengineering (Also, one needs to do some 5 to 10 extra courses and with very ill-qualified instructors who are all have mech/elec/chem background.). I know quite a few Bioeng graduates who did quite well 3.0 GPA from top 25 Bio schools toiling in second rate jobs.

not sure why you are saying that bioengineering is a bluff. the discipline is probably at a stage of maturity that materials science and engineering was some twenty or thirty years ago -- exciting but not fully defined. it is highly interdisciplinary. so it might be suitable for kids who love to get into lots of different things - math, chemistry, physics, electrical engineering, and of course biology.

by the time a kid is a sophomore one generally has some idea of what the kid might find interesting. if you are not sure my advice is to do an undergraduate degree that is broad based and emphasizes quantitative and analytical reasoning - economics, chemical engineering, mechanical engineering, EE, physics, chemistry, math are all great majors for an undergraduate degree.

the dumbest idea is to go look at a salary list and make decisions based on that. a combination of the kid's intrinsic proclivities and the need to obtain a broad based and not too specialized undergraduate education can be a good basis for decision making. they also have the option of switching majors freely of course.

by Guest Sun May 12, 2013 7:06 pm

what's the point in doing say, aeronautical science if there are not going to be any jobs in it?

by Guest Sun May 12, 2013 7:14 pm

bioengineering =bio medical engineering?

what's bioinformatics? heard this word just now. you ppl have any idea? ok, will google.

by bw Sun May 12, 2013 7:15 pm

follow alan watts's advice.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 12, 2013 7:42 pm

kinnera wrote:bioengineering =bio medical engineering?

what's bioinformatics? heard this word just now. you ppl have any idea? ok, will google.

there are several flavors of bioengineering and biomedical engineering. there is the medical devices field which brings together expertise in fluid mechanics, physics, and electrical engineering and then there is the hardcore molecular biology/tissue engineering side of bioengineering.

bioinformatics is a field in which one uses computational tools to analyze genetic data to understand the molecular basis for diseases.

by Kris Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 pm

truthbetold wrote:Good discussion. Thanks.
How can one identify A child's preference?
And a more important question is how do we translate the preference indicator to a career choice. Bio Eng, genetically etc. How can I educate my self to give advice?
The problem is rest of the environment keep pushing their advice. So. Need to figure this reasonably quickly.

>>>>TBT,

No eas answer here, but see what they are good at in school. There are also online tests which school counselors can guide you to. At the end of the day, the student has to sort this out still. It may take some near misses over a semester or two, but they will figure it out, while they are knocking out their general ed classes. Remember now, they are not going to be strictly restricted to what they do in tier undergrad years. They can change courses after the bachelor's to some extent.

by Guest Sun May 12, 2013 9:21 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
kinnera wrote:bioengineering =bio medical engineering?

what's bioinformatics? heard this word just now. you ppl have any idea? ok, will google.

there are several flavors of bioengineering and biomedical engineering. there is the medical devices field which brings together expertise in fluid mechanics, physics, and electrical engineering and then there is the hardcore molecular biology/tissue engineering side of bioengineering.

bioinformatics is a field in which one uses computational tools to analyze genetic data to understand the molecular basis for diseases.

Thanks for the info, max. so this one said bioinformatics is his alternative choice to going to med school. He has a bachelor's degree in CS and cellular bio. bioinformatics seems like a logical choice. wondering how its future would be and what the career prospects are.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 12, 2013 10:09 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Bioengineering is the biggest bluff. Unless one goes to a top 25 schools, jobs area scarce.....
If one is looking to work after just a Bachelor degree - STAY AWAY from Bioengineering

not sure why you are saying that bioengineering is a bluff. .... so it might be suitable for kids who love to get into lots of different things - math, chemistry, physics, electrical engineering, and of course biology.

by the time a kid is a sophomore one generally has some idea of what the kid might find interesting.

read what you wrote... from your post it is clear Bioeng is for someone who is interested in a lot of things and such people are LIKELY to go beyond BS degree.

And, that is exactly what I also said. Highly motivated, multi-interested students who will not stop with just a BS should be the ones who go into Bioeng. remember such students usually fall in the top 10%. So what you are saying (and what I am saying) are applicable only for goodly students. That is not true for Mech or EE. Also, ME/EE from #300 school with a 2.5 GPA can still get a job fairly easily. Not so in the case of Bioeng. you better go to a top 25 school and get 3.0 or better. There are schools that remove students from Bioeng program (into others) if their GPA falls below a certain limit. Also, it is a (big) myth to think that if they do Bioeng they have a big advantage in getting into medicine. nada...in fact a negative for many reasons.

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