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Talking about 'servants'
+8
MaxEntropy_Man
bw
Petrichor
Rishi
Seva Lamberdar
iTEDx
goodcitizn
Hellsangel
12 posters
Page 1 of 1
Talking about 'servants'
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Talking about 'servants'
American euphemisms never fail to amuse me. The dealerships in Chicago no longer call them "used cars". The signs recently say, "Pre-owned cars!"
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
yeah that's downright offensive. Just imagine a Latino family watching he episode together where a white person is screaming downHellsangel wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
hostess scolding her maid: "I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name," finally ending with, "That said, if you don't stop screwing my husband, I'm going to have you deported."
So hurtful and embrassing to the whole family.
iTEDx- Posts : 126
Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Talking about 'servants'
iTEDx wrote:yeah that's downright offensive. Just imagine a Latino family watching he episode together where a white person is screaming downHellsangel wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
hostess scolding her maid: "I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name," finally ending with, "That said, if you don't stop screwing my husband, I'm going to have you deported."
So hurtful and embrassing to the whole family.
You are being unnecessarily oversenstitive about the working family's hurt and embarassment.
The main concern for the families and people doing these jobs is to earn money to make a living by doing hard / manual work and not be bothered if someone (inculding the employer) says "You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name".
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Seva Lamberdar wrote:iTEDx wrote:yeah that's downright offensive. Just imagine a Latino family watching he episode together where a white person is screaming downHellsangel wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
hostess scolding her maid: "I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name," finally ending with, "That said, if you don't stop screwing my husband, I'm going to have you deported."
So hurtful and embrassing to the whole family.
You are being unnecessarily oversenstitive about the working family's hurt and embarassment.
The main concern for the families and people doing these jobs is to earn money to make a living by doing hard / manual work and not be bothered if someone (inculding the employer) says "You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name".
Absolutely Seva.
When I was working as a dish washer every day for a year, cleaning the plates, scrubbing pots and pans with very hot water for $3.50 an hour, I did not stop to think that I was cleaning plates someone had eaten from or cups which people drank from. I did the back breaking job day in and day out just to survive.
I posed the question about eating with the servants in India to find out how people react. Particularly the people who jump and down about caste injustice etc.
The way to treat your servant is to treat them like a worker in a factory.
You pay them fair wages. The GOI should set a minimum wage for people who work in somebody's homes.
After the work is done, he or she goes home. It is the responsibility of the government to make sure that they do not starve and their children go to decent schools. That is why I support Amma's canteen. She should also open public bathrooms everywhere.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Talking about 'servants'
>>The way to treat your servant is to treat them like a worker in a factory.
Disagree - people that help you run a household are qualitatively different and have closer links to your family. While you may not break bread or roti with them, one should take more interest in their lives and troubles. And help with non-monetary intangibles as much as we can.
Disagree - people that help you run a household are qualitatively different and have closer links to your family. While you may not break bread or roti with them, one should take more interest in their lives and troubles. And help with non-monetary intangibles as much as we can.
Petrichor- Posts : 1725
Join date : 2012-04-10
Re: Talking about 'servants'
+1Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:>>The way to treat your servant is to treat them like a worker in a factory.
Disagree - people that help you run a household are qualitatively different and have closer links to your family. While you may not break bread or roti with them, one should take more interest in their lives and troubles. And help with non-monetary intangibles as much as we can.
reason is different though: the factory worker (in india) enjoys more rights than your domestic help does by law.
Guest- Guest
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Rishi wrote:
When I was working as a dish washer every day for a year, cleaning the plates, scrubbing pots and pans with very hot water for $3.50 an hour, I did not stop to think that I was cleaning plates someone had eaten from or cups which people drank from. I did the back breaking job day in and day out just to survive.
Off course.
During one Summer in the U.S., I was part of a small team doing extensive cleaning and painting work in a huge church complex. It was quite a messy job, as usually happens with such tasks. My utmost concern there was to earn money by doing cleaning and painting in the church during the summer months, and nothing else. It would have made little difference to me or my feelings if the priest or any member of the church came and told me, "You, poor fellow, doing this cleaning and painting for months in the church, but you won't pray in it or hold any wedding etc. here for yourself." Similarly, I was not looking forward to having my lunch on the church table along with the priest and other members of the church.
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Seva Lamberdar wrote:Rishi wrote:
When I was working as a dish washer every day for a year, cleaning the plates, scrubbing pots and pans with very hot water for $3.50 an hour, I did not stop to think that I was cleaning plates someone had eaten from or cups which people drank from. I did the back breaking job day in and day out just to survive.
Off course.
During one Summer in the U.S., I was part of a small team doing extensive cleaning and painting work in a huge church complex. It was quite a messy job, as usually happens with such tasks. My utmost concern there was to earn money by doing cleaning and painting in the church during the summer months, and nothing else. It would have made little difference to me or my feelings if the priest or any member of the church came and told me, "You, poor fellow, doing this cleaning and painting for months in the church, but you won't pray in it or hold any wedding etc. here for yourself." Similarly, I was not looking forward to having my lunch on the church table along with the priest and other members of the church.
Another question I want to ask people like Charvaka is this:
There is a middle class hard working guy in Chennai who has two kids. And he has employed a maid to clean his house and wash the clothes. The maid has a kid of her own. For Diwali, the man buys his wife a silk sari and his kids expensive shirts. Is he obligated to buy his servant maid any clothes for Diwali? Now you may say that human decency demands he buys her one. Then there is the big question. Should he get her a Rs. 600 sari or a Rs. 5000 sari he got his wife? And then what about the maid's kid? Should he buy for the kid same kind of expensive shirts he got for his own kids? Would not the maid feel slighted if he discriminates by not buying expensive items for her and her kid?
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Rishi wrote:Seva Lamberdar wrote:Rishi wrote:
When I was working as a dish washer every day for a year, cleaning the plates, scrubbing pots and pans with very hot water for $3.50 an hour, I did not stop to think that I was cleaning plates someone had eaten from or cups which people drank from. I did the back breaking job day in and day out just to survive.
Off course.
During one Summer in the U.S., I was part of a small team doing extensive cleaning and painting work in a huge church complex. It was quite a messy job, as usually happens with such tasks. My utmost concern there was to earn money by doing cleaning and painting in the church during the summer months, and nothing else. It would have made little difference to me or my feelings if the priest or any member of the church came and told me, "You, poor fellow, doing this cleaning and painting for months in the church, but you won't pray in it or hold any wedding etc. here for yourself." Similarly, I was not looking forward to having my lunch on the church table along with the priest and other members of the church.
Another question I want to ask people like Charvaka is this:
There is a middle class hard working guy in Chennai who has two kids. And he has employed a maid to clean his house and wash the clothes. The maid has a kid of her own. For Diwali, the man buys his wife a silk sari and his kids expensive shirts. Is he obligated to buy his servant maid any clothes for Diwali? Now you may say that human decency demands he buys her one. Then there is the big question. Should he get her a Rs. 600 sari or a Rs. 5000 sari he got his wife? And then what about the maid's kid? Should he buy for the kid same kind of expensive shirts he got for his own kids? Would not the maid feel slighted if he discriminates by not buying expensive items for her and her kid?
Thanks for the laughs.
You omitted an important detail: is the maid married or has the matter sub judice?
Petrichor- Posts : 1725
Join date : 2012-04-10
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Rishi wrote:Seva Lamberdar wrote:Rishi wrote:
When I was working as a dish washer every day for a year, cleaning the plates, scrubbing pots and pans with very hot water for $3.50 an hour, I did not stop to think that I was cleaning plates someone had eaten from or cups which people drank from. I did the back breaking job day in and day out just to survive.
Off course.
During one Summer in the U.S., I was part of a small team doing extensive cleaning and painting work in a huge church complex. It was quite a messy job, as usually happens with such tasks. My utmost concern there was to earn money by doing cleaning and painting in the church during the summer months, and nothing else. It would have made little difference to me or my feelings if the priest or any member of the church came and told me, "You, poor fellow, doing this cleaning and painting for months in the church, but you won't pray in it or hold any wedding etc. here for yourself." Similarly, I was not looking forward to having my lunch on the church table along with the priest and other members of the church.
Another question I want to ask people like Charvaka is this:
There is a middle class hard working guy in Chennai who has two kids. And he has employed a maid to clean his house and wash the clothes. The maid has a kid of her own.
For Diwali, the man buys his wife a silk sari and his kids expensive shirts.
(1) Is he obligated to buy his servant maid any clothes for Diwali?
(2) Now you may say that human decency demands he buys her one.
(3) Then there is the big question. Should he get her a Rs. 600 sari or a Rs. 5000 sari he got his wife?
(4) And then what about the maid's kid? Should he buy for the kid same kind of expensive shirts he got for his own kids?
(5) Would not the maid feel slighted if he discriminates by not buying expensive items for her and her kid?
Answers to the above questions:
(1) No.
(2) Human decency does not demand that (he buy clothes for his maid or her son on Diwali -- that is not part of his job contract with her as a maid).
(3) No.
(4) No.
(5) Maid has no reason to feel slighted if her employer is not buying / giving gifts to her or the kid on Diwali. That's not pat of the contract between the maid and the employer for the work she does for him as a maid.
Re: Talking about 'servants'
goodcitizn wrote:American euphemisms never fail to amuse me. The dealerships in Chicago no longer call them "used cars". The signs recently say, "Pre-owned cars!"
thooymai seyyum cheematti is better than velakaari? i think i will keep my 'helper' and let the PC contrived names people have their 'ladies'.
bw- Posts : 2922
Join date : 2012-11-15
Re: Talking about 'servants'
LOL! I'm waiting for the PC crowd to come up with House Maintenance Administrator.bw wrote:goodcitizn wrote:American euphemisms never fail to amuse me. The dealerships in Chicago no longer call them "used cars". The signs recently say, "Pre-owned cars!"
thooymai seyyum cheematti is better than velakaari? i think i will keep my 'helper' and let the PC contrived names people have their 'ladies'.
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
so first names are not popular here i see.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Talking about 'servants'
I did not read all the posts in the servant-related threads..
But, what is the problem in saying someone is a "servant" ? Servant does not mean slave..it's just a name for someone who provides various "hired services" in the home..for a salary with the "rights" which go along with it...and make references to others when it comes up.
*Just like with any job description..there are employers who don't pay fair salaries/treat employees with respect and consideration. In my family- we always treated them fairly..actually we were quite generous when we could be when it comes to salaries..some even got "retirement benefits"..
As for how we addressing them..it would be silly to call them.. "hey servant come here..go there"..it always depends on their age. If they were my age or younger than me..I called them by name..eg..Sundari..if they were older it was Sundariamma, Sundariakka..etc.
It's also silly to somehow make it seem one is treating them with "more respect"..if they are sitting at the table with us and eating with us. Most of the time they are working and would even "prefer" ot eat peacefully by themselves..wherever they want to..It's like any professional relationship, even in the US..it depends..with some people in the boss role we are more comfortable..some, we don't want to eat with them..and have artificial "forced" conversations..and people who work for us..they may want to eat by themselves..not us bothering them too!
*In the bigger picture..I like the word service- servant/server..I would not mind if someone sees me as a "servant"..someone who serves cheerfully, "efficiently". At home I am an unpaid servant (service provider)..so what? It's my family..I can be their servant..and they can be mine..and they know- I will demand certain services when I want to, too!
But, what is the problem in saying someone is a "servant" ? Servant does not mean slave..it's just a name for someone who provides various "hired services" in the home..for a salary with the "rights" which go along with it...and make references to others when it comes up.
*Just like with any job description..there are employers who don't pay fair salaries/treat employees with respect and consideration. In my family- we always treated them fairly..actually we were quite generous when we could be when it comes to salaries..some even got "retirement benefits"..
As for how we addressing them..it would be silly to call them.. "hey servant come here..go there"..it always depends on their age. If they were my age or younger than me..I called them by name..eg..Sundari..if they were older it was Sundariamma, Sundariakka..etc.
It's also silly to somehow make it seem one is treating them with "more respect"..if they are sitting at the table with us and eating with us. Most of the time they are working and would even "prefer" ot eat peacefully by themselves..wherever they want to..It's like any professional relationship, even in the US..it depends..with some people in the boss role we are more comfortable..some, we don't want to eat with them..and have artificial "forced" conversations..and people who work for us..they may want to eat by themselves..not us bothering them too!
*In the bigger picture..I like the word service- servant/server..I would not mind if someone sees me as a "servant"..someone who serves cheerfully, "efficiently". At home I am an unpaid servant (service provider)..so what? It's my family..I can be their servant..and they can be mine..and they know- I will demand certain services when I want to, too!
Last edited by Maria S on Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Maria S wrote:I did not read all the posts in the servant-related threads..
But, what is the problem in saying someone is a "servant" ? Servant does not mean slave..it's just a name for someone who provides various "hired services" in the home..for a salary with the "rights" which go along with it...and make references to others when it comes up.
*Just like with any job description..there are employers who don't pay fair salaries/treat employees with respect and consideration. In my family- we always treated them fairly..actually we were quite generous when we could be when it comes to salaries..some even got "retirement benefits"..
As for how we address them..it would be silly to call them.. "hey servant come here..go there"..it always depends on their age. If they were my age or younger than me..I called them by name..eg..Sundari..if they were older it was Sundariamma, Sundariakka..etc.
It's also silly to somehow make it seem one is treating them with "more respect"..if they are sitting at the table with us and eating with them. Most of the time they are working and would even "prefer" ot eat peacefully by themselves..wherever they want to..It's like any professional relationship, even in the US..it depends..with some people in the boss role we are more comfortable..some, we don't want to eat with them..and have artificial "forced" conversations..and people who work for us..they may want to eat by themselves..not us bothering them too!
*In the bigger picture..I like the word service- servant/server..I would not mind if someone sees me as a "servant"..someone who serves cheerfully, "efficiently". At home I am an unpaid servant (service provider)..so what? It's my family..I can be their servant..and they can be mine..and they know- I will demand certain services when I want to, too!
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Seva Lamberdar wrote:iTEDx wrote:yeah that's downright offensive. Just imagine a Latino family watching he episode together where a white person is screaming downHellsangel wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
hostess scolding her maid: "I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name," finally ending with, "That said, if you don't stop screwing my husband, I'm going to have you deported."
So hurtful and embrassing to the whole family.
You are being unnecessarily oversenstitive about the working family's hurt and embarassment.
The main concern for the families and people doing these jobs is to earn money to make a living by doing hard / manual work and not be bothered if someone (inculding the employer) says "You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name".
i am sure their main concern is making a living but the question is not about them but about the hostess who feels the need to say,
"I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name"
what do you think motivates a person to say that?
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Talking about 'servants'
maria if you are comfortable with servant are you also comfortable with velaikAri? it's the same thing.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Talking about 'servants'
*"Velaikari, Velaikaramma, Velakkarakka" are only references..when I am talking to others..I always address them by their name..or add an "akka", "amma" depending on their age..
I also say "our" in an affectionate way..Enga Sundari akka..Enga Manickam anna..etc I was always playful with them and respected them..go and see them even if I go for a short visit..they know I will fight for them..with anyone..esp. my family!
I also say "our" in an affectionate way..Enga Sundari akka..Enga Manickam anna..etc I was always playful with them and respected them..go and see them even if I go for a short visit..they know I will fight for them..with anyone..esp. my family!
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Velaikaran or velaikari simply translates to worker. I don't see a Steel Mill Worker take offese to that term. Nor is "Worker's Union" a derogatory name. So I am not sure if velaikaran is meant to be offensive although you can construe it be so and make an argument against the use of it. Yes, we always referred to our driver or housekeeper by their names. Most importantly, I find the term servant highly offensive.Maria S wrote:*"Velaikari, Velaikaramma, Velakkarakka" are only references..when I am talking to others..I always address them by their name..or add an "akka", "amma" depending on their age..
I also say "our" in an affectionate way..Enga Sundari akka..Enga Manickam anna..etc I was always playful with them and respected them..go and see them even if I go for a short visit..they know I will fight for them..with anyone..esp. my family!
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Seva Lamberdar wrote:iTEDx wrote:yeah that's downright offensive. Just imagine a Latino family watching he episode together where a white person is screaming downHellsangel wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
hostess scolding her maid: "I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name," finally ending with, "That said, if you don't stop screwing my husband, I'm going to have you deported."
So hurtful and embrassing to the whole family.
You are being unnecessarily oversenstitive about the working family's hurt and embarassment.
The main concern for the families and people doing these jobs is to earn money to make a living by doing hard / manual work and not be bothered if someone (inculding the employer) says "You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name".
The point is not what the main "concern" of these people is. No one in their right mind will not find this offensive, actually that is an understatement, such statements are soul-killing.
By your logic, then it is indeed every person's, who comes to the US, main concern to earn money to make a living by doing hard work. Imagine if you are in a meeting, is it ok for your boss to shout down your throat something like " Seva, just shut up and do as you are told! You are paid to follow orders and not to think like a CEO, because you people obviously can never rise to that level. So you H1 fobbys, stay in your place or else I am gonna have to deport you! These Curry-slurpers stink up the cubicle everyday"
Actually, multiply that insult by 10 and thats how a Latino family, with kids and all, watching this series would feel.
iTEDx- Posts : 126
Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Talking about 'servants'
+1iTEDx wrote:Seva Lamberdar wrote:iTEDx wrote:yeah that's downright offensive. Just imagine a Latino family watching he episode together where a white person is screaming downHellsangel wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/showbiz/devious-maids-controversy/index.html
No one from the PC crowd seems to have objected yet to the term 'maids'
hostess scolding her maid: "I think what you people do is heroic. You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name," finally ending with, "That said, if you don't stop screwing my husband, I'm going to have you deported."
So hurtful and embrassing to the whole family.
You are being unnecessarily oversenstitive about the working family's hurt and embarassment.
The main concern for the families and people doing these jobs is to earn money to make a living by doing hard / manual work and not be bothered if someone (inculding the employer) says "You wash clothes you can't afford. You polish silver you will never dine with. You mop floors for people who don't bother to learn your name".
The point is not what the main "concern" of these people is. No one in their right mind will not find this offensive, actually that is an understatement, such statements are soul-killing.
By your logic, then it is indeed every person's, who comes to the US, main concern to earn money to make a living by doing hard work. Imagine if you are in a meeting, is it ok for your boss to shout down your throat something like " Seva, just shut up and do as you are told! You are paid to follow orders and not to think like a CEO, because you people obviously can never rise to that level. So you H1 fobbys, stay in your place or else I am gonna have to deport you! These Curry-slurpers stink up the cubicle everyday"
Actually, multiply that insult by 10 and thats how a Latino family, with kids and all, watching this series would feel.
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
goodcitizn wrote:Velaikaran or velaikari simply translates to worker. I don't see a Steel Mill Worker take offese to that term. Nor is "Worker's Union" a derogatory name. So I am not sure if velaikaran is meant to be offensive although you can construe it be so and make an argument against the use of it. Yes, we always referred to our driver or housekeeper by their names. Most importantly, I find the term servant highly offensive.
You are certainly entitled to your references GC...but, why so?
*Many years ago, I was surprised to see a name plate of a car in the US with bold letters (SERVANT)..it belonged to a Physician..I assumed it was based on the Biblical verse in the Book of Matthew..which is often used in our funeral services "well done good and faithful servant"..basically interpreted as "you have done well on Earth- served your family and others well, it's time for you to now rest and be with God"..don't know anyone who sees that offensive..I would very much like that to be said- when I rest forever! *Religious interpretations aside..somehow, don't see it as offensive..it's how we treat people who work for us- which determines if we are offensive or not.
There is a great hymn about it too..did not find a nice version..so, for what it's worth..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JONX_2UXfM
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.Maria S wrote:goodcitizn wrote:Velaikaran or velaikari simply translates to worker. I don't see a Steel Mill Worker take offese to that term. Nor is "Worker's Union" a derogatory name. So I am not sure if velaikaran is meant to be offensive although you can construe it be so and make an argument against the use of it. Yes, we always referred to our driver or housekeeper by their names. Most importantly, I find the term servant highly offensive.
You are certainly entitled to your references GC...but, why so?
*Many years ago, I was surprised to see a name plate of a car in the US with bold letters (SERVANT)..it belonged to a Physician..I assumed it was based on the Biblical verse in the Book of Matthew..which is often used in our funeral services "well done good and faithful servant"..basically interpreted as "you have done well on Earth- served your family and others well, it's time for you to now rest and be with God"..don't know anyone who sees that offensive..I would very much like that to be said- when I rest forever! *Religious interpretations aside..somehow, don't see it as offensive..it's how we treat people who work for us- which determines if we are offensive or not.
There is a great hymn about it too..did not find a nice version..so, for what it's worth..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JONX_2UXfM
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Gone are the days where you can address a servant as a servant without offending anyone. These days they are very demanding coz the "quality labor" is of a big demand. If at all you address them as a servant they would change their employer and look for someone who can pay them as well pay benefits.
Like Maria said I don't mind being a servant at my home and being called one. It always happens..."Hey I am not your servant!"..."Please...can you help?"..."Well, I don't mind being a servant if you say please..."
Like Maria said I don't mind being a servant at my home and being called one. It always happens..."Hey I am not your servant!"..."Please...can you help?"..."Well, I don't mind being a servant if you say please..."
Nila- Posts : 1485
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 45
Re: Talking about 'servants'
We can always agree to disagree. :-)Maria S wrote:Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
goodcitizn wrote:We can always agree to disagree. :-)Maria S wrote:Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
Sure GC..we can! And make up with a handshake, hug, whatever:)!
Just curious..if someone asks you "who is that in your home?" How do you respond..if it's someone who works as a cook, driver, multi-tasking..since you don't like the "s" word..won't say that again!
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Lately my DD left her cup on the table after her milk. When I told her to take the cup to the kitchen and leave it at the sink and her reaction was..."Why should I do all the work?" I was like..."Huh????...wait till I ask you to do the dishes" She did offered to help me do the dishes and I told her "Noooooooooooooooooo!"
Anyways, she graduated Kindergarten....
Anyways, she graduated Kindergarten....
Nila- Posts : 1485
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 45
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Nila wrote:Lately my DD left her cup on the table after her milk. When I told her to take the cup to the kitchen and leave it at the sink and her reaction was..."Why should I do all the work?" I was like..."Huh????...wait till I ask you to do the dishes" She did offered to help me do the dishes and I told her "Noooooooooooooooooo!"
Anyways, she graduated Kindergarten....
Hello Sasthi-Nila!
So nice to know- we share family-servanthood:) Congrats to your daughter!
You are so right about..akkas and ammas who just come to our house for helping us out (not sure what to call them!) They are in great demand..and rightly demand high wages..I have no problem with that..if we can only separate them from their cell phones..they get a call a minute..have to say "Radhikakka koncham intha velai mudichittu phone pesuringala?"..it's funny!
How are you doing? Hope your summer is going well.
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Hi Maria, Thanks for asking I am doing great. Summer is yet to start for me...it will from July till first week of Sep. Signed up for so many classes and it will be fun for everyone. Making a presentation for the family...(Yay! We have family meetings!) with all the issues and plans. LOL
Again...my DD, (I have decided not to talk about DD much...getting tired of my dd is this and my dd is that....) When kids graduate its a happy and sad feel...
Again...my DD, (I have decided not to talk about DD much...getting tired of my dd is this and my dd is that....) When kids graduate its a happy and sad feel...
Nila- Posts : 1485
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 45
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Nila wrote:Hi Maria, Thanks for asking I am doing great. Summer is yet to start for me...it will from July till first week of Sep. Signed up for so many classes and it will be fun for everyone. Making a presentation for the family...(Yay! We have family meetings!) with all the issues and plans. LOL
Again...my DD, (I have decided not to talk about DD much...getting tired of my dd is this and my dd is that....) When kids graduate its a happy and sad feel...
Sasthi-Nila,
I see..so, it's later in the Summer..
Oh, Yes..one does have some mixed feelings as children grow and change, but, it's great..good luck with everything!
Good to know that you will be having family meetings and making presentations..I can relate to that too:)!
If one can make the family buy into plans and deal with issues (with some incentives..well, by any means necessary!)..it makes life easier!
Take care and have fun..spent a lot of time here today!
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Marie - Take care and have a good rest of the day.
Nila- Posts : 1485
Join date : 2011-05-03
Age : 45
Re: Talking about 'servants'
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:so first names are not popular here i see.
obviously, first names are used when addressing them directly or when referring to them with people who know them. if a random person asks me how i manage my household chores, i say that i have a 'helper' or a 'maid' and don't see any reason to tell them their names, just like how i may say that my kids have a tennis coach or a piano teacher if questioned on those.
bw- Posts : 2922
Join date : 2012-11-15
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Agreed, a domestic help could take a week off without advance notice but still gets paid for whole month.Huzefa Kapasi wrote:+1Muezzin-Bar'chu wrote:>>The way to treat your servant is to treat them like a worker in a factory.
Disagree - people that help you run a household are qualitatively different and have closer links to your family. While you may not break bread or roti with them, one should take more interest in their lives and troubles. And help with non-monetary intangibles as much as we can.
reason is different though: the factory worker (in india) enjoys more rights than your domestic help does by law.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Talking about 'servants'
iTEDx wrote:
The point is not what the main "concern" of these people is. No one in their right mind will not find this offensive, actually that is an understatement, such statements are soul-killing.
By your logic, then it is indeed every person's, who comes to the US, main concern to earn money to make a living by doing hard work. Imagine if you are in a meeting, is it ok for your boss to shout down your throat something like " Seva, just shut up and do as you are told! You are paid to follow orders and not to think like a CEO, because you people obviously can never rise to that level. So you H1 fobbys, stay in your place or else I am gonna have to deport you! These Curry-slurpers stink up the cubicle everyday"
Actually, multiply that insult by 10 and thats how a Latino family, with kids and all, watching this series would feel.
When I work on contract assignments (like paid help), the check after two weeks is my main concern after my sincere effort (in the job).
Re: Talking about 'servants'
Besides mentioning their name, I generally use the term housekeeper or say, "ivanga enga veeta gavanikkkaranga" in Tamil. Perhaps because I grew up in Madurai, the heart of Tamil culture in my opinion, I was taught early on to be respectful to older staff in our house. While my parents and grandparents addressed them by name, we kids called Velamma as Periaathaa (big mama) since her granddaughter called her that. Our driver was Balu Mama. We had to be respectful and used "vanga, ponga" in conversation. The only exception was a "edu pidi" (beck & call) lad who ran minor errands for the household using our bicycle. Conversely the staff also addressed us using "vanga ponga" although we were very young boys. Not sure if it was a Madurai thing.Maria S wrote:goodcitizn wrote:We can always agree to disagree. :-)Maria S wrote:Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
Sure GC..we can! And make up with a handshake, hug, whatever:)!
Just curious..if someone asks you "who is that in your home?" How do you respond..if it's someone who works as a cook, driver, multi-tasking..since you don't like the "s" word..won't say that again!
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
goodcitizn wrote:Besides mentioning their name, I generally use the term housekeeper or say, "ivanga enga veeta gavanikkkaranga" in Tamil. Perhaps because I grew up in Madurai, the heart of Tamil culture in my opinion, I was taught early on to be respectful to older staff in our house. While my parents and grandparents addressed them by name, we kids called Velamma as Periaathaa (big mama) since her granddaughter called her that. Our driver was Balu Mama. We had to be respectful and used "vanga, ponga" in conversation. The only exception was a "edu pidi" (beck & call) lad who ran minor errands for the household using our bicycle. Conversely the staff also addressed us using "vanga ponga" although we were very young boys. Not sure if it was a Madurai thing.Maria S wrote:goodcitizn wrote:We can always agree to disagree. :-)Maria S wrote:Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
Sure GC..we can! And make up with a handshake, hug, whatever:)!
Just curious..if someone asks you "who is that in your home?" How do you respond..if it's someone who works as a cook, driver, multi-tasking..since you don't like the "s" word..won't say that again!
>>> Was this reference t0 her size necessary? I thought the idea was to be kind to the help. What next, hints at a jenny craig diet?
Kris- Posts : 5460
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Talking about 'servants'
No. She was one old lean, mean woman! Her granddaughter used to address her as Periaathaa to imply mom's mom since Velamma didn't like to be called Paati!Kris wrote:goodcitizn wrote:Besides mentioning their name, I generally use the term housekeeper or say, "ivanga enga veeta gavanikkkaranga" in Tamil. Perhaps because I grew up in Madurai, the heart of Tamil culture in my opinion, I was taught early on to be respectful to older staff in our house. While my parents and grandparents addressed them by name, we kids called Velamma as Periaathaa (big mama) since her granddaughter called her that. Our driver was Balu Mama. We had to be respectful and used "vanga, ponga" in conversation. The only exception was a "edu pidi" (beck & call) lad who ran minor errands for the household using our bicycle. Conversely the staff also addressed us using "vanga ponga" although we were very young boys. Not sure if it was a Madurai thing.Maria S wrote:goodcitizn wrote:We can always agree to disagree. :-)Maria S wrote:Let us skip any biblical references pertaining to the use of the word "Servant". That has zero to do with what we are discussing herr. To address domestic workers (driver, watchman, housekeeper, cook and gardener) as servants is derogatory in my book, a term totally reprehensible. That's all.
Sure, to the first part..I see a connection in regards to "use of terms", but, did not expect that to connect here in this forum.
What we are discussing here is just the word "Servant"..to me it's not offensive..or the other words you mention here..any type of work/service is honorable to me.
Anyways, am done too.
Sure GC..we can! And make up with a handshake, hug, whatever:)!
Just curious..if someone asks you "who is that in your home?" How do you respond..if it's someone who works as a cook, driver, multi-tasking..since you don't like the "s" word..won't say that again!
>>> Was this reference t0 her size necessary? I thought the idea was to be kind to the help. What next, hints at a jenny craig diet?
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: Talking about 'servants'
>>>>Okay, I didn't know if you were being unkind to her or lapsing into ebonics for some reason, there in the midst of sundara pandian's capital. It seemed a bit incongruous.goodcitizn wrote:No. She was one old lean, mean woman! Her granddaughter used to address her as Periaathaa to imply mom's mom since Velamma didn't like to be called Paati!Kris wrote:goodcitizn wrote:Besides mentioning their name, I generally use the term housekeeper or say, "ivanga enga veeta gavanikkkaranga" in Tamil. Perhaps because I grew up in Madurai, the heart of Tamil culture in my opinion, I was taught early on to be respectful to older staff in our house. While my parents and grandparents addressed them by name, we kids called Velamma as Periaathaa (big mama) since her granddaughter called her that. Our driver was Balu Mama. We had to be respectful and used "vanga, ponga" in conversation. The only exception was a "edu pidi" (beck & call) lad who ran minor errands for the household using our bicycle. Conversely the staff also addressed us using "vanga ponga" although we were very young boys. Not sure if it was a Madurai thing.Maria S wrote:goodcitizn wrote:
We can always agree to disagree. :-)
Sure GC..we can! And make up with a handshake, hug, whatever:)!
Just curious..if someone asks you "who is that in your home?" How do you respond..if it's someone who works as a cook, driver, multi-tasking..since you don't like the "s" word..won't say that again!
>>> Was this reference t0 her size necessary? I thought the idea was to be kind to the help. What next, hints at a jenny craig diet?
Kris- Posts : 5460
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Talking about 'servants'
goodcitizn wrote:Besides mentioning their name, I generally use the term housekeeper or say, "ivanga enga veeta gavanikkkaranga" in Tamil. Perhaps because I grew up in Madurai, the heart of Tamil culture in my opinion, I was taught early on to be respectful to older staff in our house. While my parents and grandparents addressed them by name, we kids called Velamma as Periaathaa (big mama) since her granddaughter called her that. Our driver was Balu Mama. We had to be respectful and used "vanga, ponga" in conversation. The only exception was a "edu pidi" (beck & call) lad who ran minor errands for the household using our bicycle. Conversely the staff also addressed us using "vanga ponga" although we were very young boys. Not sure if it was a Madurai thing.Maria S wrote:
Sure GC..we can! And make up with a handshake, hug, whatever:)!
Just curious..if someone asks you "who is that in your home?" How do you respond..if it's someone who works as a cook, driver, multi-tasking..since you don't like the "s" word..won't say that again!
Appreciate the explanation GC.
Oh..I think it's a tamil thing, well..simply good manners thing:)
Maria S- Posts : 2879
Join date : 2011-12-31
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