Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

by iTEDx Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:20 pm

Well since clearly my thread has been badly hijacked...im posting my original post here. Maria lets continue here instead. Thanks

by Maria S Today at 18:36

iTEDx wrote:
Maria S wrote:Ask..will be around for the next 20 mins. If I know enough, will respond.

Thanks! Sorry I had to step out yesterday after I posted this. I am helping out a close ailing relative suffering form depression and in the process am doing a lot of research on my own, apart from scouting for good doctors, hospitals etc. I found an article, written in complete layman's terms (so others who are not doctors but have had person experience, or have known people who have had this ailment can also chip in about their experiences). Wanted to ask you, from a doctor's or a scientist's perceptive, how far is this true? Where does the latest research stand?

http://bigthink.com/devil-in-the-data/the-chemical-imbalance-myth

No problem.

I can offer my opinion on this one. As you know..research is always ongoing, but to my knowledge, there have not been any significant findings recently which we have changed the scientific understanding of depression.

*We know..Clinical Depression (Major Unipolar and Bipolar Depressive Disorder) can be attributed to many factors. Chemical changes in the brain is not entirely a myth..changes/fluctuations in brain chemistry (esp. levels of Neurotransmitters and Hormones) are related to mental conditions/disorders.

*However, as the article you posted states, I do agree that these chemical changes, esp. neurotransmitter fluctuations are "overemphasized" when it comes to treatment and antidepressants are often overprescribed..so medications alone "cannot fix the illness" and it's a myth to assume they will. They do have limited value, and can really help some patients, more than others. But, they do have many side effects (suicidal thoughts included) as well. So extreme caution has to be used in prescribing these meds, patients have to be monitored, dosage adjustments have to made constantly, changing meds or discontinuing meds are important. So, patients and their families have to be really involved in this process.

*There are several other causes..esp, genetic factors and environmental factors (which are not emphasized as much) which one cannot "fully" overcome..and it's always a challenge for patients to manage their illnesses.

Having said that..don't want to sound too depressing..there is always hope (no medical professional can accurately predict the course of these illnesses) and many people do "manage" their illnesses-moods and feel better and live "productive" lives. Hopefully..new research findings can lead to other treatments as well.

Mental illnesses take a severe toll on the family/caregivers..so as you help your relative, you take care too.

Thanks Maria. So then how does one a judgement about what the best course of action is.....or rather in the face of ambiguity surrounding the role of neurotransmitters, is a Psychiatrist qualified tp prescribe meds? When I took my relative to the doc, after 1 sitting only ( and without any bloodtest), he quickly prescribed an anti-depressant!

This brings me to my next question, what blood tests can indicate depression? (as in blood test for which entity?) And can one tests for neurotransmitters via a blood test?

by Jebediah Mburuburu Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:17 pm

you may find the research and writings of dr. madhukar trivedi on depression helpful. he is a leading researcher in depression, and professor of psychiatry at the university of texas's southwestern medical center in dallas. i heard him interviewed recently on npr. look him up on the internet and read what he says.

here are some links:

http://profiles.utsouthwestern.edu/profile/17410/madhukar-trivedi.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/magazine/issues/summer07/articles/summer07pg13.html

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/prescribing-exercise-to-treat-depression/

by Maria S Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:04 pm

iTEDx wrote:Well since clearly my thread has been badly hijacked...im posting my original post here. Maria lets continue here instead. Thanks

Thanks Maria. So then how does one a judgement about what the best course of action is.....or rather in the face of ambiguity surrounding the role of neurotransmitters, is a Psychiatrist qualified tp prescribe meds? When I took my relative to the doc, after 1 sitting only ( and without any bloodtest), he quickly prescribed an anti-depressant!

This brings me to my next question, what blood tests can indicate depression? (as in blood test for which entity?) And can one tests for neurotransmitters via a blood test?

You are welcome iTedx.

*A licensed Psychiatrist is perhaps the most qualified to prescribe meds based on training and experience. Actually, in most States in the US, any licensed MD, DO, even Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners who are trained in Psychiatric Care can prescribe meds- and they do often consult with Physicians.

*Typical "screening" for Clinical Depression is done in many ways to get clues..starting with a good family history, "situational history" (trauma, post-partum, grief etc), substance/drug history- includes alcohol/illegal drug use..and legally prescribed drugs- depression can a be a side effect for many commonly taken meds.

*When it come to lab work..starting with a whole battery of tests to rule out physical medical illnesses everything from undiagnosed Diabetes, thyroid functions, and if it's a female patient checking hormonal levels etc..and other more uncommon illnesses.

*As I said before..although neurotransmitter panel profiles are available..they fluctuate so much based on diet and stress levels..they are not very reliable and not done much, imo.

*Nowadays..often a "self-assessment" survey is given to the patient with 20-50 typical questions and data is collected to see if certain markers are matched to come up with the Clinical diagnosis of a Major depressive disorder.

Unfortunately, again imo..many Medical professionals these days take the time and do a complete evaluation..and rush the process and start patients on meds with the "big assumption" emphasizing chemical imbalance. Mental Health evaluations are only partially science..not every behavior/condition can be "fully scientifically explained"...as you say it's sometimes quite "ambiguous"..even for the best professionals.

*Think I have said all that I can in general..it is certainly impossible and can't advice anyone on line- what should be done in "specific cases". Hope this was helpful.

Take care.

by iTEDx Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:59 am

Thank for the detailed information....do you which might be the best self -assessment surveys available out there, we would need to choose as each costs anywhere from 2-3K (surprisingly as even though they are not 'real' tests, but merely a questionnaire)

by Maria S Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:52 am

There are many that are used..BDI-Beck Depression Inventory, ZAD Scale- Zung Self-Assessment Depression are okay for some general assessment, imo. *Frankly, prefer personalized assessments.
*I have no problem sharing important info, and help if I can, but let's not make this a "free" mental health research educational "project" with free consulting:)

I come by here, just to interact with a few nice old friends and one anna (!), and one thangachi!

It's the same with any site, including Facebook..am active and meet/interact with many interesting people.. have been quite fortunate in that regard. There is no agenda..if i like what I read and/or the person who posts..will let them know (and they certainly let me know!)..95% of people we interact online are exactly same as in real life..they/we have good intuitions..people respond as we treat them..if you are genuinely interested and care about them- they will respond..do also know people may disagree with everything I say- but, out of respect.."choose to be silent"..I do the same..if I read and don't post a like or comment..they know I did not like it- and chose not to insult/belittle something or someone important to them in the name of "intelligent conversations" which are useless and go nowhere!

Anyways..good luck!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:13 am

Maria S wrote:

Unfortunately, again imo..many Medical professionals these days take the time and do a complete evaluation..and rush the process and start patients on meds with the "big assumption" emphasizing chemical imbalance. Mental Health evaluations are only partially science..not every behavior/condition can be "fully scientifically explained"...as you say it's sometimes quite "ambiguous"..even for the best professionals.

Take care.

Agree... I dont think many peesichiatrists even think about all those brain imbalances. A quick survey of patients who walk-in and add up the points to conclude they are depressed (I almost scored 30/30 when I filled out that survey for fun.... Razz

- the questions are so broad a patient who is convinced she is depressed will certainly mark positively), and put them on meds - and they are hooked.

Best is to see a PsyCHOLOGIST first. he does exactly the same thing without meds. he will recommend that the patient see a Peesychiatrist if necessary. Also, it will be like a basic therapy. Most depression patents are not depressed and just "down" due to personal challenges.

by iTEDx Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:26 am

Thanks Maria have you heard of MCM?

and btw on which test did you score 30/30?

by iTEDx Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:16 pm

by Maria S Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:06 am

iTEDx wrote:Thanks Maria have you heard of MCM?

If you mean MCMI (Millon Inventory), I know about it and the MACI (for adolescents) as well. If appropriately used, can be an useful tool, imo.

by Sponsored content

Hitskin.com

Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance

Re: Maria S- Myth of chemical imbalance