Hellsangel wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

Dear Lady BW: The blacks that have 20 kids with 19 mothers and those living off of food stamps hardly know about history, ancestry, socio-economic analysis, blah blah and more blah. If it is free, then I want it.. If you have it then it is only fair you give some to me....(I have a relative in our family with that midset).

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

DL BW: Of course of course...I stated it all and predicted all that has to be predicted. remember that racism is in everyone - it is just a question of how deep it is buried. Even Ted Kennedy dropped his guard and revealed his racist views.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

Dear Lady BW: The blacks that have 20 kids with 19 mothers and those living off of food stamps hardly know about history, ancestry, socio-economic analysis, blah blah and more blah.  If it is free, then I want it.. If you have it then it is only fair you give some to me....(I have a relative in our family with that midset).

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

DL BW:  Of course of course...I stated it all and predicted all that has to be predicted. remember that racism is in everyone - it is just a question of how deep it is buried. Even Ted Kennedy dropped his guard and revealed his racist views.

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Idéfix wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

I understand more than most people of my background the history, socioeconomic and psychological factors that cause this situation. But the way out of this sorry situation for an individual comes from seeing another individual from the same oppressed/ostracized group who has found his way out, and learning from him/her to overcome it oneself. Otherwise, all those historical, socioeconomic, and psychological analyses risk turning into list of excuses justifying the current sorry state of affairs.

Racial hatred existed in almost every society for almost all of human history. I am reading a book called The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould. It is an old book that talks about how biological science has been used to justify racism in the past. Scientists used to construct theories those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder are there because of biological reasons; that those at the top are more intelligent and therefore deserving of their high position on the ladder. Some of the quotes in the book from scientists are shocking. These are not from fringe scientists like today's creationists, either. These are statements by the best-known people of their times, people who had large sociopolitical influence, thanks to their views that helped society feel very good about its oppression of ethnic minorities and women. The quote in my signature is from one of the few scientists who rejected their notions. Compared to those prominent scientists, we have come a long way in understanding the causes of social problems in this country and in this age. For all that progress, however, from an individual's perspective change can only come through candid conversations like the one Don Lemon started.

pravalika nanda wrote:

DL BW:  Of course of course...I stated it all and predicted all that has to be predicted. remember that racism is in everyone - it is just a question of how deep it is buried. Even Ted Kennedy dropped his guard and revealed his racist views.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Sorry everyone is - at some level and regarding something or other.  You differentiate and like people of certain color - dont you?...

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Idéfix wrote:
I understand more than most people of my background the history, socioeconomic and psychological factors that cause this situation.  

Hellsangel wrote:

Idéfix wrote:
I understand more than most people of my background the history, socioeconomic and psychological factors that cause this situation.  

On what basis do you qualify yourself so?

Idéfix wrote:

I understand more than most people of my background the history, socioeconomic and psychological factors that cause this situation. But the way out of this sorry situation for an individual comes from seeing another individual from the same oppressed/ostracized group who has found his way out, and learning from him/her to overcome it oneself. Otherwise, all those historical, socioeconomic, and psychological analyses risk turning into list of excuses justifying the current sorry state of affairs.

Racial hatred existed in almost every society for almost all of human history. I am reading a book called The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould. It is an old book that talks about how biological science has been used to justify racism in the past. Scientists used to construct theories those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder are there because of biological reasons; that those at the top are more intelligent and therefore deserving of their high position on the ladder. Some of the quotes in the book from scientists are shocking. These are not from fringe scientists like today's creationists, either. These are statements by the best-known people of their times, people who had large sociopolitical influence, thanks to their views that helped society feel very good about its oppression of ethnic minorities and women. The quote in my signature is from one of the few scientists who rejected their notions. Compared to those prominent scientists, we have come a long way in understanding the causes of social problems in this country and in this age. For all that progress, however, from an individual's perspective change can only come through candid conversations like the one Don Lemon started.

goodcitizn wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Why is it irresponsible? He is one of a handful of people who is placing the sorry state of blacks -- particularly the violence of blacks on blacks, high dropout rates in high school, highest % of children born out of wedlock etc -- squarely on them. Almost all blacks in talk shows and other media outlets point to their history, blaming the white man for all their ills. It is no longer the white man who is causing them to get into gangs, traffic in drugs, be irresponsible parents, drop out of schools and clog the prison system. In fact, the black community before the 70's didn't have nearly as many of these problems as it has today.

If you listen to Bill Cosby or Oprah, you'll find them focusing on solutions to the black community in being responsible citizens, not indulging in the blame game. Not a week goes by when there isn't news about shootings and deaths on Chicago streets due to gang violence. This problem has escalated greatly over the last two decades. I am not sure what the moratorium is on milking the blame cow.

bw wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Why is it irresponsible? He is one of a handful of people who is placing the sorry state of blacks -- particularly the violence of blacks on blacks, high dropout rates in high school, highest % of children born out of wedlock etc -- squarely on them. Almost all blacks in talk shows and other media outlets point to their history, blaming the white man for all their ills. It is no longer the white man who is causing them to get into gangs, traffic in drugs, be irresponsible parents, drop out of schools and clog the prison system. In fact, the black community before the 70's didn't have nearly as many of these problems as it has today.

If you listen to Bill Cosby or Oprah, you'll find them focusing on solutions to the black community in being responsible citizens, not indulging in the blame game. Not a week goes by when there isn't news about shootings and deaths on Chicago streets due to gang violence. This problem has escalated greatly over the last two decades. I am not sure what the moratorium is on milking the blame cow.

culture does not form overnight and is the result of what one has been subjected to for decades/centuries. by not even mentioning that and squarely blaming the blacks for their own downfall, i think he is being very dishonest. simple 5 point solutions do not erase where they are coming from. it is just to distract people from the key issue of what led to a segment of people being second class citizens or worse.

i just finished 14 hours of "eyes on the prize" ( i had watched only the first 6 episodes back when i was a grad student) and it is quite shocking how much bias existed even in the 70s/80s.

bw wrote:by not even mentioning that and squarely blaming the blacks for their own downfall, i think he is being very dishonest. simple 5 point solutions do not erase where they are coming from. it is just to distract people from the key issue of what led to a segment of people being second class citizens or worse.

Idéfix wrote:

bw wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Why is it irresponsible? He is one of a handful of people who is placing the sorry state of blacks -- particularly the violence of blacks on blacks, high dropout rates in high school, highest % of children born out of wedlock etc -- squarely on them. Almost all blacks in talk shows and other media outlets point to their history, blaming the white man for all their ills. It is no longer the white man who is causing them to get into gangs, traffic in drugs, be irresponsible parents, drop out of schools and clog the prison system. In fact, the black community before the 70's didn't have nearly as many of these problems as it has today.

If you listen to Bill Cosby or Oprah, you'll find them focusing on solutions to the black community in being responsible citizens, not indulging in the blame game. Not a week goes by when there isn't news about shootings and deaths on Chicago streets due to gang violence. This problem has escalated greatly over the last two decades. I am not sure what the moratorium is on milking the blame cow.

culture does not form overnight and is the result of what one has been subjected to for decades/centuries. by not even mentioning that and squarely blaming the blacks for their own downfall, i think he is being very dishonest. simple 5 point solutions do not erase where they are coming from. it is just to distract people from the key issue of what led to a segment of people being second class citizens or worse.

i just finished 14 hours of "eyes on the prize" ( i had watched only the first 6 episodes back when i was a grad student) and it is quite shocking how much bias existed even in the 70s/80s.

There are more than 6 episodes? Where did you find the rest? I ordered by set from PBS, and it had three DVDs with two episodes on each.

bw wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Why is it irresponsible? He is one of a handful of people who is placing the sorry state of blacks -- particularly the violence of blacks on blacks, high dropout rates in high school, highest % of children born out of wedlock etc -- squarely on them. Almost all blacks in talk shows and other media outlets point to their history, blaming the white man for all their ills. It is no longer the white man who is causing them to get into gangs, traffic in drugs, be irresponsible parents, drop out of schools and clog the prison system. In fact, the black community before the 70's didn't have nearly as many of these problems as it has today.

If you listen to Bill Cosby or Oprah, you'll find them focusing on solutions to the black community in being responsible citizens, not indulging in the blame game. Not a week goes by when there isn't news about shootings and deaths on Chicago streets due to gang violence. This problem has escalated greatly over the last two decades. I am not sure what the moratorium is on milking the blame cow.

culture does not form overnight and is the result of what one has been subjected to for decades/centuries. by not even mentioning that and squarely blaming the blacks for their own downfall, i think he is being very dishonest. simple 5 point solutions do not erase where they are coming from. it is just to distract people from the key issue of what led to a segment of people being second class citizens or worse.

i just finished 14 hours of "eyes on the prize" ( i had watched only the first 6 episodes back when i was a grad student) and it is quite shocking how much bias existed even in the 70s/80s.

bw wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

bw wrote:that was quite an irresponsible talk - he can't talk about this without into account the history, socio-economic factors and the psychological scars they bear. centuries of oppression and being ostracized cannot be overcome just like that.

it is illuminating to see how much hatred existed even in a place like boston, the so called cradle of all things liberal.

Why is it irresponsible? He is one of a handful of people who is placing the sorry state of blacks -- particularly the violence of blacks on blacks, high dropout rates in high school, highest % of children born out of wedlock etc -- squarely on them. Almost all blacks in talk shows and other media outlets point to their history, blaming the white man for all their ills. It is no longer the white man who is causing them to get into gangs, traffic in drugs, be irresponsible parents, drop out of schools and clog the prison system. In fact, the black community before the 70's didn't have nearly as many of these problems as it has today.

If you listen to Bill Cosby or Oprah, you'll find them focusing on solutions to the black community in being responsible citizens, not indulging in the blame game. Not a week goes by when there isn't news about shootings and deaths on Chicago streets due to gang violence. This problem has escalated greatly over the last two decades. I am not sure what the moratorium is on milking the blame cow.

culture does not form overnight and is the result of what one has been subjected to for decades/centuries. by not even mentioning that and squarely blaming the blacks for their own downfall, i think he is being very dishonest. simple 5 point solutions do not erase where they are coming from. it is just to distract people from the key issue of what led to a segment of people being second class citizens or worse.

i just finished 14 hours of "eyes on the prize" ( i had watched only the first 6 episodes back when i was a grad student) and it is quite shocking how much bias existed even in the 70s/80s.

bw wrote:i got it from a library - there are two parts to it. there is also a very good study guide that comes with it. the second part was made in 1990 and the original sometime in the 80s.

Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years 1954–1964  
Eyes on the Prize II: America at the Racial Crossroads 1965–1985

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_on_the_Prize

it is a must watch for all americans for sure.

Idéfix wrote:

bw wrote:i got it from a library - there are two parts to it. there is also a very good study guide that comes with it. the second part was made in 1990 and the original sometime in the 80s.

Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years 1954–1964  
Eyes on the Prize II: America at the Racial Crossroads 1965–1985

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_on_the_Prize

it is a must watch for all americans for sure.

Thanks. Was the second season in DVD or VHS at your library? PBS website only shows me the first season on DVD, which I already own. They don't list the second season on DVD. I don't have a VHS player, so need the DVD version of the second season.

Idéfix wrote:

bw wrote:by not even mentioning that and squarely blaming the blacks for their own downfall, i think he is being very dishonest. simple 5 point solutions do not erase where they are coming from. it is just to distract people from the key issue of what led to a segment of people being second class citizens or worse.

I think the context of a black American addressing other black Americans brings with it a lot of the historical context of slavery, Jim Crow, and racism without those having to be pointed out. I don't think Lemon leaving them out in his remarks suggests to his intended audience that all those horrible things did not happen, and that they are solely responsible for their current plight. The way I heard his comments was that given all the bad things that happened, what are some things that individuals can do that will help them improve their plight. When I see it in that light, I don't really see the five-point plan as offensive or irresponsible.