going at a time of your own choosing

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:48 am

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/23/tech/web/martin-manley-suicide-website/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

your thoughts?

by nevada Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:46 am

Through some other link I reached his website a couple of days ago.(http://www.zeroshare.info/january_1_2012)
It was a disturbing experience reading about his long drawn out plan.
But then again, in India in the olden days sages and such used to go at a time of their choosing. In today's world if people could will themselves to death and just make their heart stop, then more power to them.

by Guest Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:47 am

I don't think I will give too much fight when death or anything like death comes knocking, but no way am I going by myself. I have told all to pull the plug if I turn into a veggie, but I want to make sure I somehow get that documented.

Thots on his blogging. dunno. He was apparently gripped with the idea for a full year, and he went ahead with it. Life is drama enough, he made death a drama too, and no matter how you look at it, it's morbid. Have heard many people talk about doing something like it, he did it. But lol @ below. Now that was mean.

And it appears Manley may have even played a practical joke to tweak the greedy in his long farewell. In the section of his site detailing his collection of gold and silver coins, a random set of GPS coordinates appears, along with a tiny thumbnail image of Overland Park Arboretum & Botanical Gardens.
Police say about 20 people, some with GPS units, metal detectors and shovels, showed up at the gardens and started digging. But the joke was on them -- Manley's family told police he had given the gold away."

by Bittu Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:06 am

I like this approach IF the person is terminally ill and suffering has begun. This dude was in good health and could have led a meaningful, enriching life for many more years. Jackass.

Anyway his blog can be found here:

http://martinmanley.org/index2.html

by Guest Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:20 pm

Here in desh, I am meeting a whole bunch of old peeps who are suffering from a lot of complications coz of age. It's throwing me into a vyragya mode. As an old woman said to me the other day, 'we don't know why we are living. We are leading a purposeless life'. Another 90 yr old said that she was waiting for her death and wishes that god takes her away soon.

I think 85 is the limit until which a person can live fine with a good lifestyle. I don't want to live beyond 85. 60 is too early to die. The guy was a fool.

PS: the vyragya mode has made me realise that I got to relish the current moment to the fullest.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:12 pm

kinnera wrote:Here in desh, I am meeting a whole bunch of old peeps who are suffering from a lot of complications coz of age. It's throwing me into a vyragya mode. As an old woman said to me the other day, 'we don't know why we are living. We are leading a purposeless life'. Another 90 yr old said that she was waiting for her death and wishes that god takes her away soon.

I think 85 is the limit until which a person can live fine with a good lifestyle. I don't want to live beyond 85. 60 is too early to die. The guy was a fool.

PS: the vyragya mode has made me realise that I got to relish the current moment to the fullest.

That is because people have lost the concept about "retired LIFE" In old days, ppl retired from work (only) and helped, played, and spent time with grand kids, their own grown up childrens delivery, etc.. Now, children live separately, and the oldies are left for themselves with way too much time on their hands. They don't do anything bcz they are now "retired" They have only 2 things to whine about - their health or about their kids.

So retire from your work only if you have equally busy "work" to replace. If not just dont retire. The concept of volunteering does not exist... the "status" caste, "dirtiness" "dirty, poor slummies" all these factors prevent capable people from involving in hands-on volunteering.

Poor folks cant even go to bhajans and Kathakalakshebam and kactheris bcz they are far and few or they cannot afford.

This is what happens when Random, segmented development occurs over a short period of time.

by Rishi Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:39 pm

I have a relative who celebrated a few months ago her 100th birthday. Her children threw a big party for that occasion.

by Rishi Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:49 pm

[quote="MaxEntropy_Man"]http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/23/tech/web/martin-manley-suicide-website/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

your thoughts?[/quote][color=#000000][font=arial][i]In the days afterward, some observers saw other factors, though.[/i][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][i][b]Manley was twice divorced. He had no children, no nieces or nephews. His parents had both died: his mother in 2002, then his father in 2007. He had one sister and one brother and neither lived nearby or visited much.[/b][/i][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial][i]>>>[/i] That tells you everything. He neither had anyone to love nor anything to look forward to.[/font][/color]

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:52 pm

Rishi wrote:I have a relative who celebrated a few months ago her 100th birthday. Her children threw a big party for that occasion.

That is nice. Politicians celebrate 10 and 150th anniversary. if anything we are bcz of our ancestors, and families should also develop the habit of celebrating 100th and 150th anniversaries - sort of their own LEADERS. Such occassions will bring together all their descendants under one roof.

went to a cousin's marriage 3 years ago. This uncle (groom's father) had the habit of keeping in touch with all his cousins and friends, and they all showed up for marriage. Amazing that so many people met after 30 and 50 years, and even came to know of my parents cousins who I did not even know existed.

Imagine celebrating your great grandfather's 150th birth anniversary with all his descendants.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:57 pm

Rishi wrote:I have a relative who celebrated a few months ago her 100th birthday. Her children threw a big party for that occasion.

that's great. but i think everyone's missing an important point. you may all have different opinions about what a life fully lived is, what life span is appropriate and so on, but this post is about whether it is appropriate for a person to choose when to go. the age could be anything, but of the person's choosing -- 45, 60, or 110. the age is not the issue here, voluntary choice is.

by Guest Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:49 pm

An aunt of mine died y'day. She was 68. That's a second death in the family in exactly 3 weeks. While I got more into the varagya mode, got news that a cousin had a daughter the same day. Remembered the climax of the movie Saransh.

This aunt never had the fear of death. She was like, 'I don't mind dying. All I want is that I die without much pain.' I think that's what I want. No, I am not going to choose death, but if I have to suffer, then pls give me the damn narcotics. Pull the plug out if I have to die anyway

by Kris Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:26 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/23/tech/web/martin-manley-suicide-website/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

your thoughts?

>>>The only scenario I can think of where I would find this even partly reasonable is terminal illness where the pain is unbearable. Otherwise, I'd have to be dragged screaming and kicking. The words "do not go gently into that good night, instead rage, rage against the dying of the light" comes to mind here.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:04 am

Bittu wrote:I like this approach IF the person is terminally ill and suffering has begun. This dude was in good health and could have led a meaningful, enriching life for many more years. Jackass.

You are free to call him names, but it's his life to give up if and when he wants to. Why should someone be compelled to live on, against their will? The right to life also means the right to die.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:12 am

Kris wrote:Otherwise, I'd have to be dragged screaming and kicking. The words "do not go gently into that good night, instead rage, rage against the dying of the light" comes to mind here.

i don't think this applies to my question at all. if you don't want to go, nobody has the right to ask you to leave. this is really about society accepting the premise that a man can go at a time of his choosing. the motivations could be pretty much anything. our society has an innate ickiness with this idea. i do too, but in balance i favor this idea.

by Guest Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:20 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:Otherwise, I'd have to be dragged screaming and kicking. The words "do not go gently into that good night, instead rage, rage against the dying of the light" comes to mind here.
i don't think this applies to my question at all. if you don't want to go, nobody has the right to ask you to leave. this is really about society accepting the premise that a man can go at a time of his choosing. the motivations could be pretty much anything. our society has an innate ickiness with this idea. i do too, but in balance i favor this idea.

Should suicides be made legal?

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:22 am

kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:Otherwise, I'd have to be dragged screaming and kicking. The words "do not go gently into that good night, instead rage, rage against the dying of the light" comes to mind here.
i don't think this applies to my question at all. if you don't want to go, nobody has the right to ask you to leave. this is really about society accepting the premise that a man can go at a time of his choosing. the motivations could be pretty much anything. our society has an innate ickiness with this idea. i do too, but in balance i favor this idea.
Should suicides be made legal?

yes as long as they are adults. but even more important than that is making psychological help more freely available and putting in place programs in all walks of life to avoid suicide.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:25 am

in any case the legality of suicide is mostly academic. those contemplating it are seldom basing their decision on its legality.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:32 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:in any case the legality of suicide is mostly academic. those contemplating it are seldom basing their decision on its legality.

Check out Section 309 of the Indian Penal Code: "Attempt to commit suicide.-- Whoever attempts to commit suicide and does any act towards the commission of such offence, shall be punished with simple imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year 1[ or with fine, or with both.]"

As it is, this guy is weary of life and wants to end it. Unfortunately, his attempt fails. As if that disappointment is not sufficient, the govt puts him in the slammer. How hilarious is that??

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:34 am

seriously, is this ever enforced?

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:47 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:seriously, is this ever enforced?

Yup. Used by cops to harrass the Medha Patkars of the world.

by goodcitizn Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Ten years back a very close friend of mine committed suicide by hanging himself. A very accomplished guy. To this day I can't get over his death. I had met him a few months before when he had made a comment - "suicide is the bravest act of a coward." I didn't think much of it then. I didn't know it was a cue of some sort.

Wish I had talked him out of it. His wife went to the same school as me. When I visited India that year, his wife wept seeing me. Wanted to know if he had said anything to me. I shook my head.

Suicide affects so many others.

by gone Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:43 pm

So, good citizen equals shaken but stirred?

by goodcitizn Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:50 pm

mainstreet wrote:So, good citizen equals shaken but stirred?

Yes, with an umbrella on top.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:54 pm

GC i wasn't recommending offing oneself without consulting affected parties.

by goodcitizn Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:08 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:GC i wasn't recommending offing oneself without consulting affected parties.

Only in rare circumstances would the affected parties agree. Even then such a wound would never scab.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:22 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:GC i wasn't recommending offing oneself without consulting affected parties.
Only in rare circumstances would the affected parties agree. Even then such a wound would never scab.

there are lots of people who don't want to go through old age with dementia, alzheimers and nasty stuff like that whose spouses agree with them. there should be a dignified out for such people. i can't imagine scabs in such cases.

by Guest Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:GC i wasn't recommending offing oneself without consulting affected parties.
Only in rare circumstances would the affected parties agree. Even then such a wound would never scab.
there are lots of people who don't want to go through old age with dementia, alzheimers and nasty stuff like that whose spouses agree with them. there should be a dignified out for such people. i can't imagine scabs in such cases.

did u watch that french movie on oldies? it's called amore or something.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:GC i wasn't recommending offing oneself without consulting affected parties.
Only in rare circumstances would the affected parties agree. Even then such a wound would never scab.
there are lots of people who don't want to go through old age with dementia, alzheimers and nasty stuff like that whose spouses agree with them. there should be a dignified out for such people. i can't imagine scabs in such cases.
did u watch that french movie on oldies? it's called amore or something.

no i wanted to watch that and missed it. i know a moving real life story of a couple who moved to oregon for the express purpose of letting the man go in a dignified way.

by goodcitizn Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:GC i wasn't recommending offing oneself without consulting affected parties.
Only in rare circumstances would the affected parties agree. Even then such a wound would never scab.
there are lots of people who don't want to go through old age with dementia, alzheimers and nasty stuff like that whose spouses agree with them. there should be a dignified out for such people. i can't imagine scabs in such cases.

People who suffer from dementia and alzheimers don't know their own condition and require a lot of assistance from others. Usually it is the others who decide that it's time for them to go. That part bothers me a great deal. On the other hand, there are those in severe trauma from terminal illness who want their family members to help them with euthanasia. That is sad yet understandable. There I agree with you.

by nevada Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:17 pm

goodcitizn wrote:Ten years back a very close friend of mine committed suicide by hanging himself. A very accomplished guy. To this day I can't get over his death. I had met him a few months before when he had made a comment - "suicide is the bravest act of a coward." I didn't think much of it then. I didn't know it was a cue of some sort.

Wish I had talked him out of it. His wife went to the same school as me. When I visited India that year, his wife wept seeing me. Wanted to know if he had said anything to me. I shook my head.

Suicide affects so many others.

An old class mate of mine committed suicide recently(a little over a month ago). Before he took his own life, he slit his wife's throat and killed her. He left a suicide note saying that his wife's life would be miserable after his death so he had to kill her. And then he threw himself under a train and died. One would wish that suicides are peaceful departures with minimal to no impact but more often than not, it is the other way around.

by goodcitizn Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:22 pm

nevada wrote:
An old class mate of mine committed suicide recently(a little over a month ago). Before he took his own life, he slit his wife's throat and killed her. He left a suicide note saying that his wife's life would be miserable after his death so he had to kill her. And then he threw himself under a train and died.

OMG!

by Guest Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:30 pm

someone i knew closely used to go into cycles of depression would tell his wife this:

first i will kill you, then i will kill the older kid, then i will kill the newborn, and then i will kill myself.... or he would call her from work every lunch time and tell her he is about to jump into hudson.

after a few weeks of this, she had got so distraught and bought into this whole insanity, that one day she cried inconsolably and begged him herself to kill her.

by goodcitizn Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:44 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:someone i knew closely used to go into cycles of depression would tell his wife this:

first i will kill you, then i will kill the older kid, then i will kill the newborn, and then i will kill myself.... or he would call her from work every lunch time and tell her he is about to jump into hudson.

after a few weeks of this, she had got so distraught and bought into this whole insanity, that one day she cried inconsolably and begged him herself to kill her.

How is she doing now? She should had that miserable prick arrested or at least divorced him with a restraining order against him for life, stretching into her next several births.

by Guest Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:52 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:someone i knew closely used to go into cycles of depression would tell his wife this:

first i will kill you, then i will kill the older kid, then i will kill the newborn, and then i will kill myself.... or he would call her from work every lunch time and tell her he is about to jump into hudson.

after a few weeks of this, she had got so distraught and bought into this whole insanity, that one day she cried inconsolably and begged him herself to kill her.
How is she doing now? She should had that miserable prick arrested or at least divorced him with a restraining order against him for life, stretching into her next several births.

lol, no she eventually snapped out of it and got him treated. Last I heard, he is still not stable and keeps needing extra care and treatment coz he always gives up the meds midway. She did divorce him, but she still helps him (along with his family) with his treatments, shelter, and sometimes money. Guess she wants to keep the father of her kids alive and well, even though she is in love with another guy now.

by gone Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:15 pm

With an umbrella on top? Care to explain? Am I missing some movie allusion?

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