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The (official) Indian perspective on the Devyani case

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The (official) Indian perspective on the Devyani case Empty The (official) Indian perspective on the Devyani case

Post by Guest Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:21 pm

Officials joked sourly that at $ 9.75 an hour in New York ($ 8.25 in Washington DC) plus overtime, any local labor they employ will earn more than the diplomats considered the hours they will be needed, while contesting the general impression that foreign postings are lavishly paid. The salaries are modest, they insist, and in fact it is the perks such as taking domestic help abroad that makes such postings tolerable they say.

In fact, federal minimum wages in the US, which is stuck at $ 7.25 since 2009, is poised to go up to $ 10 soon (some states like NY will mandate more in keeping with higher costs)

''Which Indian would pay a help Rs 6500 ($ 100) a day?'' asked Shakti Sinha, a former principal secretary in the government of India who did various stints abroad, including at the World Bank and various UN agencies, assuming eight normal working hours. Nevertheless, Sinha is for withdrawing the privilege of taking Indian help abroad while complying with local laws. At the same time, he says, New Delhi should also not ''spare any US diplomat who is even close to breaking any Indian domestic law.'' The suggestion here is that New Delhi does not similarly enforce its domestic laws strictly against foreign diplomats and officials.

Indeed, Indian officials say foreign diplomats in India, including US officials, will be on weak ground if New Delhi took their various infractions seriously but the Indian view is that diplomatic niceties need to be observed. They are incensed that in the case of Khobragade, the young mother of two was jumped on and handcuffed by US authorities when she was dropping her daughters to school. ''It was not as if she is a terrorist or proven criminal and was about to flee or was endangering lives,'' one official fumed. ''It could have been handled better.''

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Khobhra-gate-in-NYC-may-end-nanny-service-for-Indian-diplomats/articleshow/27372505.cms


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Post by Guest Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:24 pm

Officials explained that because diplomats typically take care of all the other needs of the domestic help brought from India, such as housing, food, medical treatment, and trips back home, their written commitment to mandated local wage in western countries ( $ 9.95 per hour of $ 4500 per month in the Khobragade case) is only of a ''technical nature.'' The real cost does work out approximately to that, they maintain, adding that the situation has become complicated because in several cases, the domestic help from India have figured out they can make a killing and gain permanent residence by ''going legal.''

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:34 pm

Rashmun wrote:Officials joked sourly that at $ 9.75 an hour in New York ($ 8.25 in Washington DC) plus overtime, any local labor they employ will earn more than the diplomats considered the hours they will be needed, while contesting the general impression that foreign postings are lavishly paid. The salaries are modest, they insist, and in fact it is the perks such as taking domestic help abroad that makes such postings tolerable they say.

In fact, federal minimum wages in the US, which is stuck at $ 7.25 since 2009, is poised to go up to $ 10 soon (some states like NY will mandate more in keeping with higher costs)

''Which Indian would pay a help Rs 6500 ($ 100) a day?'' asked Shakti Sinha, a former principal secretary in the government of India who did various stints abroad, including at the World Bank and various UN agencies, assuming eight normal working hours. Nevertheless, Sinha is for withdrawing the privilege of taking Indian help abroad while complying with local laws. At the same time, he says, New Delhi should also not ''spare any US diplomat who is even close to breaking any Indian domestic law.'' The suggestion here is that New Delhi does not similarly enforce its domestic laws strictly against foreign diplomats and officials.

Indeed, Indian officials say foreign diplomats in India, including US officials, will be on weak ground if New Delhi took their various infractions seriously but the Indian view is that diplomatic niceties need to be observed. They are incensed that in the case of Khobragade, the young mother of two was jumped on and handcuffed by US authorities when she was dropping her daughters to school. ''It was not as if she is a terrorist or proven criminal and was about to flee or was endangering lives,'' one official fumed. ''It could have been handled better.''

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Khobhra-gate-in-NYC-may-end-nanny-service-for-Indian-diplomats/articleshow/27372505.cms


Why should these babus get domestic maids n cooks n drivers. do they pay rent in NYC. If this cuties take home pay is $4750/mo then her gross shuold be around $7500. that is more than enough for to pay for everything - after all wht do they do other than stamping papers, arranging meetings for Netas. and supervising 20 other rubber stampers/

Seriously... This requires IFS and IAS.



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Post by Rishi Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:43 pm

In most cases, Indian officials insist the complainants, helped by NGOs, exaggerate and conflate issues in an effort to seek permanent residency and restitution. ''The same complainants have had no problems working with the same officials in places such as Morocco or Cambodia. It is only when they come to US or Western Europe that all these issues crop up,'' one official fumed.

>>>This is an idiotic argument. These issues crop up when they go to Europe or America because the societies and in particuluar the governments there protects your rights. The domestic help cannot do anything in places like Morocco.

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:43 pm

The two main arguments of the Indian officials are:

1. Since the consulate arranges for apartment rent, medical expenses, food, travel to India, etc. this altogether comes to around $4,500 per month when added to the salary the maid was getting.

2. When European and American diplomats commit infractions in India, the authorities look the other way out of diplomatic courtesy.

Another argument is that Devyani's salary is $4,000 per month and so how can she give $4,500 per month to the maid.

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:54 pm

Rashmun wrote:The two main arguments of the Indian officials are:

1. Since the consulate arranges for apartment rent, medical expenses, food, travel to India, etc. this altogether comes to around $4,500 per month when added to the salary the maid was getting.

2. When European and American diplomats commit infractions in India, the authorities look the other way out of diplomatic courtesy.

Another argument is that Devyani's salary is $4,000 per month and so how can she give $4,500 per month to the maid.

Here is my rebuttal:

1. Did they explain as such in the contracts and documents when they filed papers for the Maid's visa?

2. ....my answers to Cutie Devyani:....Razz do the housework yourself if you cannot afford 4500? Besides, she is loaded. There are scores of young mothers with 2 children who work and take care of homes. Ask her husband to accompany her and help her with the chores.

*Where is her husband and how is life if she is posted overseas all the time?

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Post by Guest Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:14 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:The two main arguments of the Indian officials are:

1. Since the consulate arranges for apartment rent, medical expenses, food, travel to India, etc. this altogether comes to around $4,500 per month when added to the salary the maid was getting.

2. When European and American diplomats commit infractions in India, the authorities look the other way out of diplomatic courtesy.

Another argument is that Devyani's salary is $4,000 per month and so how can she give $4,500 per month to the maid.

Here is my rebuttal:

1. Did they explain as such in the contracts and documents when they filed papers for the Maid's visa?

2. ....my answers to Cutie Devyani:....Razz  do the housework yourself if you cannot afford 4500? Besides, she is loaded. There are scores of young mothers with 2 children who work and take care of homes.  Ask her husband to accompany her and help her with the chores.

*Where is her husband and how is life if she is posted overseas all the time?

what about the fact that Indian authorities do not prosecute european and north american diplomats--when they do something illegal while being in India-- out of diplomatic courtesy?

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:34 am

Rashmun wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:The two main arguments of the Indian officials are:

1. Since the consulate arranges for apartment rent, medical expenses, food, travel to India, etc. this altogether comes to around $4,500 per month when added to the salary the maid was getting.

2. When European and American diplomats commit infractions in India, the authorities look the other way out of diplomatic courtesy.

Another argument is that Devyani's salary is $4,000 per month and so how can she give $4,500 per month to the maid.

Here is my rebuttal:

1. Did they explain as such in the contracts and documents when they filed papers for the Maid's visa?

2. ....my answers to Cutie Devyani:....Razz  do the housework yourself if you cannot afford 4500? Besides, she is loaded. There are scores of young mothers with 2 children who work and take care of homes.  Ask her husband to accompany her and help her with the chores.

*Where is her husband and how is life if she is posted overseas all the time?

what about the fact that Indian authorities do not prosecute european and north american diplomats--when they do something illegal while being in India-- out of diplomatic courtesy?

Just bcz India does not prosecute does not mean Western countries should refrain from acting? India does not act NOT bcz of courtesy, but bcz they have no guts or spine. India does not act against Saudis, Nigerians, Westerners, pakistanis, Jehadis, and fifth columnists no matter how badly Indians are treated anywhere in the world.

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Post by goodcitizn Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:56 am

1. Why do these bureaucrats need maids from India? Let them hire local nannies like everybody else. If the Indian govt is supposed to foot the bill for such help, let them be paid directly by the office and not by the individual so such frauds are prevented.

2. The Indian Consulate has outsourced all the paperwork to agencies like BLS International so what is the work that an Asst Consulate General actually do? These people are overpaid to begin with with housing, utilities, conveyance etc in addition to their salaries. Total waste of taxpayers money.

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Post by truthbetold Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:32 am

Amazing stuff. These Indian diplomats think they can ignore local laws and get away with that. Are they not aware that Ngo, investigative reporter, disgruntled employees, anti Indian forces and numerous others could use this as a tool to embarrass Indian govt?

Indian govt pays millions to maintain embassy. Why cringe on few thousands of dollars?

Very fuedal thinking.

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Post by truthbetold Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:35 am

Arresting in public and handcuffing is unnecessary but intended to humiliate India and embassy staff. This is probably a us attorney level decision and intentional.

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Post by goodcitizn Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:42 am

truthbetold wrote:
Indian govt pays millions to maintain embassy. Why cringe on few thousands of dollars?

The way I read it, it appears that she underpaid her maid from the allotted amount funded by the Indian govt. It doesn't seem like the embassy was stiffing anyone.

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Post by truthbetold Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:41 am

goodcitizn wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Indian govt pays millions to maintain embassy. Why cringe on few thousands of dollars?

The way I read it, it appears that she underpaid her maid from the allotted amount funded by the Indian govt. It doesn't seem like the embassy was stiffing anyone.

That is cheap.

Nyc us attorney decided to teach this lady and Indian embassy a lesson.

Indian diplomats instead of defending her should clean up their act.
Who would respect a diplomat who does not treat her help respectfully? That too from a democratic nation?

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Post by Rishi Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:15 am

goodcitizn wrote:1. Why do these bureaucrats need maids from India? Let them hire local nannies like everybody else. If the Indian govt is supposed to foot the bill for such help, let them be paid directly by the office and not by the individual so such frauds are prevented.

2. The Indian Consulate has outsourced all the paperwork to agencies like BLS International so what is the work that an Asst Consulate General actually do? These people are overpaid to begin with with housing, utilities, conveyance etc in addition to their salaries. Total waste of taxpayers money.

>>>> The fellows at the MEA say that they are leery about hiring domestic help locally because of security reasons. Even though the domestic help hired in NYC is black or white or hispanic, what if the person is an agent for ISI?

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Post by truthbetold Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:38 am

What if they keep the current arrangement and make sure local laws are obeyed.

If diplomat is stationed in Nepal, they get regular pay and local perks. If they were posted in nyc they get perks accordingly. Why is that not applied to demestic help? Add to that country also needs security. So why not pay adequately for security reasons?

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Post by b_A Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:03 pm

The problem is that these Indian Consulate people want to have the cake and eat it too. NRIs know that they cannot afford hiring servants (that too full time) outside India. So they don't. But these diplomats want a plum posting abroad and the Indian perk of having servants too.

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:07 pm

Yet another proof that is it the OBC, BC, SC/ST who OVERWHELMINGLY abuse and exploit other low-caste people.

If it is true that she pocketed part of the allotted Perk, then fry her. In India, the prosecutor, Judges, and everyone else have housemaids and do the same intra-looting, and she will escape.

Preet baraara for Mayor of NYC...Zindabad..!!!

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Post by Rishi Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:16 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Yet another proof that is it the OBC, BC, SC/ST who OVERWHELMINGLY abuse and exploit other low-caste people.

If it is true that she pocketed part of the allotted Perk, then fry her. In India, the prosecutor, Judges, and everyone else have housemaids and do the same intra-looting, and she will escape.

Preet baraara for Mayor of NYC...Zindabad..!!!

>>>> I personally know a Vanniyar guy who married a Brahmin
.
He was always complaining about how Brahmins discriminated him. And also was always suspect about their motives. They had a mother and daughter pair from Kerala as domestic help. The mother became old. She left her 17 year old daughter with the family to do cooking, cleaning etc.

The 50 year old Vanniyar man was screwing the girl. When he was caught, he was in total denial. He claimed "she is my fifth child, another daughter".

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