Re: The Greatest Indian known to history was a UPwalah

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:45 am

Rashmun:

Your exposure to Advaita is, in my opinion, still at an early stage. It is in your interest to wait until you digest the basics before going deep into higher knowledge and comparing it with Buddhism or anything else. I hope you take this as a friendly suggestion.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:50 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

Your exposure to Advaita is, in my opinion, still at an early stage. It is in your interest to wait until you digest the basics before going deep into higher knowledge and comparing it with Buddhism or anything else. I hope you take this as a friendly suggestion.

you have so far not given me any reason to believe that your understanding and knowledge of Advaita is superior to mine. The fact remains that you have a bias and prejudice against anyone offering any criticism of Advaita, since you are yourself an Advaitin and since you consider Adi Sankaracharya the greatest philosopher of India, actually of the world.

by smArtha Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:34 pm

That is definitely one interpretation - There is one truth and many levels of its conditioning but all 'unreal'.
Another one is that the first Satyam refers to the Emperical/Vyavaharika, the Anrtam refers to the illusory/imagined unreal by each individual and the last Satyam indicates the Paramarthika Satyam/Brahman out of which both the Vyavaharika and Pratibhasika had come forth (Abhavat => come into existence from).

by smArtha Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:59 pm

Rashmun wrote:

According to Advaita Vedanta:
1. Brahman(God) is the only reality.
2. Brahman is pure consciousness which is devoid of any attributes (nirguna)

My understanding is that the sunya of the sunyavadi Budhists has the same definition as the Brahman of the Advaita Vedantists.

Yes and in my IMO the difference is subtler that only the Jnanis/Yogis or sadhakas with keen intellect seem to get. Of course in their arguments, scholars of both sides, do try and put each other down with claims that 0 is better than an undefined infinity or Brahman cannot be devoid of things but is more than the some total of everything and anything that exists/not-exists. However, both are in the right direction. Sunya is just a small step away from the Brahmajna. We can never directly do any sadhana to become infinity/Brahman. We can land at infinity by the leap of faith or descent of Grace. Otherwise, from a regular sadhana, all we do is reduce the dualities within to 0 so that the conditions are manifest for the infinity/Brahman to descend on the sadhaka. If you understand the language of Yoga sastra, I'll equate getting to 0 is attaining a Nirvikalpa Samadhi and that is the state of Sunya. One is enlightened at this state as he can perceive all the dualities and their absence. However, this samadhi is not perpetually held at all times and the yOgi attains comes back and goes back to it at will. jIvanmuktha/Brahmajna state is same as the 'Sahaja Samadhi of Yoga'. Here the yOgi is verily the Brahman itself. There is no going and coming back to duality. Whatever activity or inactivity or wakefulness/sleep etc... he is operating verily as the Brahman itself. It is an unbroken/continuous experience/knowledge for him in all states. From the point of mOksha/mukti both attain to it as both of them had broken the chains of karma at all levels.

Sorry for the not so well organized response.. but hopefully I communicated the difference.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:58 pm

smArtha wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

According to Advaita Vedanta:
1. Brahman(God) is the only reality.
2. Brahman is pure consciousness which is devoid of any attributes (nirguna)

My understanding is that the sunya of the sunyavadi Budhists has the same definition as the Brahman of the Advaita Vedantists.

Yes and in my IMO the difference is subtler that only the Jnanis/Yogis or sadhakas with keen intellect seem to get. Of course in their arguments, scholars of both sides, do try and put each other down with claims that 0 is better than an undefined infinity or Brahman cannot be devoid of things but is more than the some total of everything and anything that exists/not-exists. However, both are in the right direction. Sunya is just a small step away from the Brahmajna. We can never directly do any sadhana to become infinity/Brahman. We can land at infinity by the leap of faith or descent of Grace. Otherwise, from a regular sadhana, all we do is reduce the dualities within to 0 so that the conditions are manifest for the infinity/Brahman to descend on the sadhaka. If you understand the language of Yoga sastra, I'll equate getting to 0 is attaining a Nirvikalpa Samadhi and that is the state of Sunya. One is enlightened at this state as he can perceive all the dualities and their absence. However, this samadhi is not perpetually held at all times and the yOgi attains comes back and goes back to it at will. jIvanmuktha/Brahmajna state is same as the 'Sahaja Samadhi of Yoga'. Here the yOgi is verily the Brahman itself. There is no going and coming back to duality. Whatever activity or inactivity or wakefulness/sleep etc... he is operating verily as the Brahman itself. It is an unbroken/continuous experience/knowledge for him in all states. From the point of mOksha/mukti both attain to it as both of them had broken the chains of karma at all levels.

Sorry for the not so well organized response.. but hopefully I communicated the difference.

you have given a fairly clear exposition of the difference between sunyavada and Advaita (with respect to sunya and Brahman) as per your understanding and knowledge. Thank you. I hope to write some blogs on the relationship between sunyavada, vijnana-vada, and Advaita in future. I would love continuing this discussion then.

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The Greatest Indian known to history was a UPwalah